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TIE Advanced article up!

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10 hours ago, nikk whyte said:

I’m honestly surprised that no one has mentioned that “while you execute a maneuver” could be a VERY wide area of timing to trigger Ved’s ability. 

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying you could go fully monty with a move then decide to back track and go up or down one? Seems kind of messy to reverse that as it must be moved twice and then a third final time. I wouldn’t call that a huge window though. It does provide huge opportunities to fudge your position. Don’t know if I like that interpretation.

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9 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying you could go fully monty with a move then decide to back track and go up or down one? Seems kind of messy to reverse that as it must be moved twice and then a third final time. I wouldn’t call that a huge window though. It does provide huge opportunities to fudge your position. Don’t know if I like that interpretation.

If you take a look at the rules we got a few weeks ago, there are 4 steps to execute a maneuver. Ved could in theory, fall into any one of those steps. 

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8 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

If you take a look at the rules we got a few weeks ago, there are 4 steps to execute a maneuver. Ved could in theory, fall into any one of those steps. 

Yeah but those 4 steps equate to grabbing a template and moving the ship. Just because they bullet point it doesn’t make it a process in practical application.

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8 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

Yeah but those 4 steps equate to grabbing a template and moving the ship. Just because they bullet point it doesn’t make it a process in practical application.

9 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying you could go fully monty with a move then decide to back track and go up or down one? Seems kind of messy to reverse that as it must be moved twice and then a third final time. I wouldn’t call that a huge window though. It does provide huge opportunities to fudge your position. Don’t know if I like that interpretation.

This is a fair point.

Juno's ability:

When you reveal your maneuver, you may increase or decrease its speed by 1 (to a minimum of 1).

Ved's ability:

While you execute a maneuver, you may execute a maneuver of the same bearing and difficulty at a speed 1 higher or lower instead.

 

Ved explicitely keeps the difficulty of the manoeuvre the same, and avoids any "zero stop" or "change colour" or "that's not on your dial" questions. But 'whilst you execute' doesn't seem as strict as juno's 'when you reveal', which like most change-your-dial abilities, is designed above all else to stop you being able to put down your template, say "nope!" and then change it to get a better position.

Hopefully the 'execute a maneuver' has more detail in the rules reference (including 'when you may resolve abilities which change this maneuver').

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14 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

Yeah but those 4 steps equate to grabbing a template and moving the ship. Just because they bullet point it doesn’t make it a process in practical application.

“Practical application” is not how anyone will read these rules and you know that. 

 

If i place a template and notice it’s gonna bump, that falls within “while you execute a maneuver” so Ved can be read to change the maneuver now. 

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18 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

“Practical application” is not how anyone will read these rules and you know that. 

 

If i place a template and notice it’s gonna bump, that falls within “while you execute a maneuver” so Ved can be read to change the maneuver now. 

I agree with you completely it can be interpreted that way. I’m just saying it shouldn’t because outside vassal it will allow too many opportunities for cheating, intentional or otherwise. Again this is ffg’s poor wording in action. I think a better way to word this would be, before you complete a manuever you may change the speed blah blah.  Pretty much the second you put that plate in the nubs your chance to change speed is over but I do think your view of this ability is plausible.

 

As an aside, the wording is so vague that could you do this, go up or down one, then check the new one and be able to go further or back up and down? If never says once a turn and changing maneuver is still executing one.  

Edited by LordFajubi

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14 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

“Practical application” is not how anyone will read these rules and you know that. 

 

If i place a template and notice it’s gonna bump, that falls within “while you execute a maneuver” so Ved can be read to change the maneuver now. 

There are several abilities that have this timing and allow changing moves, I'd assume the rules ref will specify a timing.

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3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

There are several abilities that have this timing and allow changing moves, I'd assume the rules ref will specify a timing.

Hopefully. The Rules Reference should give us more details. As it stands currently; @nikk whyte is correct - it's not during the 'reveal' step, and there's nothing pinning it to one of the sub-steps. It wouldn't surprise me to see that laid out in more details in the rules reference, though.

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The Rules specifically state "a ship can perform a linked action after it performs the action to the left of the linked action"

So I guess an FAQ or the Rules Reference will have to clarify that

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17 minutes ago, GeneralBergfrühling said:

Do linked actions count as single actions?

I wonder if it is possible to execute the linked aktion if you use Advanced Sensors, which reads that you cant do another action...

I'd be very surprised if they do, given the language in the rulebook which states that they're a second action you can perform after a particular first one.

I'd be shocked if AS allows any more than that one, single action.

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At first I thought the Advanced Targeting Computer was nerfed by not giving you an automatic crit.  Now you get to roll an extra die, and convert a hit to a crit.  Major strikeout if you roll blanks or can't modify the dice somehow.  However, I noticed the language on the card has changed from 1.0 because in the new edition, it doesn't say that you "cannot spend target locks during the attack."  So, has the card actually been buffed?

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4 minutes ago, Darth Onyx said:

At first I thought the Advanced Targeting Computer was nerfed by not giving you an automatic crit.  Now you get to roll an extra die, and convert a hit to a crit.  Major strikeout if you roll blanks or can't modify the dice somehow.  However, I noticed the language on the card has changed from 1.0 because in the new edition, it doesn't say that you "cannot spend target locks during the attack."  So, has the card actually been buffed?

I guess you could spend the lock, yeah.

It's not like it can un-roll the die.

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Just now, Darth Onyx said:

Do you think it's better then?

 

It's different.  If you don't mind going all in with a lock and focus it will average more damage, but if you want to hold your lock each turn then it will do less damage.  I'll have to crunch the numbers with FCS (because of course you are taking FCS) and see where it falls.  Of course you could run predator with the old one which is equivalent to the new FCS anyways.

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42 minutes ago, Darth Onyx said:

Do you think it's better then?

 

Situationally better. Likely an overall improvement if you combine it with 2.0 FCS to get a passive reroll without blowing the lock.

Combine it with Vader’s Force mini focus, and it’s a pretty potent ship that essentially amounts to a 3 die primary if you can maintain a lock on the target.

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Just now, ScummyRebel said:

Situationally better. Likely an overall improvement if you combine it with 2.0 FCS to get a passive reroll without blowing the lock.

Combine it with Vader’s Force mini focus, and it’s a pretty potent ship that essentially amounts to a 3 die primary if you can maintain a lock on the target.

Just running some calculations now and it looks to be worse overall.  Hopefully the pilots all get a cost break to make up for it.

edit:  1.0 Predator Vader (not willing to spend lock) still edges out 2.0 FCS Vader by a small margin.  So far the only situation where the 2.0 Advanced does more damage is if nobody has any upgrades or tokens and 2.0 is willing to spend the lock while 1.0 is not.  It's fair to say that it is an overall nerf given the current pool of upgrades.

edit: 2.0 Vader edges it out at range one by a tiny bit if he is willing to spend the lock.

Edited by HolySorcerer

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Using 2.0 wording, 1.0 ATC would look like this:

While you perform a primary attack against a defender you have locked, roll 1 additional attack die and change any 1 result to a (critical) result. If you do, you cannot spend your lock during this attack.

 

Since 2.0 Advanced will be running FCS instead of ATC, their (combined) ability will be:

While you perform a primary attack against a defender you have locked, roll 1 additional attack die and change 1 (damage) result to a (critical) result. You may re-roll 1 attack dice. If you do you cannot spend your lock during this attack

 

So instead of a guaranteed crit result at all times, even if you blank out, you get a free upgrade from a hit to a crit (aka the mangler effect), and you can re-roll 1 dice.

 

Which I think is a bit worse. If you re-roll the free dice, and get a focus or a blank (which is more than half the cases), best case scenario, you have to spend a focus or Force point, worst case scenario, your extra dice was a waste.
 

The added flexibility with the target locks isn't that big of a benefit.

 

 

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OK....just back from vacation and taking a look at this article.

Sooo......let me get this straight.......if you have a Tie Adv X1 pilot with FCS, have TL, and have Ruthlessness, it means you:

  • Roll 3 dice (with the TL)
  • You get to change 1 hit to a Crit
  • FCS lets you re-roll one die 
  • Ruthlessness lets you change one result into a hit....and hit another nearby ship.  

Adv Targeting combined with FCS lets you automatically get the Crit that you had in 1.0, right?  Or can you not modify a modify?

This is crazy good.  You will get to roll 3 dice and adjust 3 dice.  

Even without Ruthlessness, you can give generics the FCS and they are doing really well.   I'm quite happy with these ships.

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6 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

OK....just back from vacation and taking a look at this article.

Sooo......let me get this straight.......if you have a Tie Adv X1 pilot with FCS, have TL, and have Ruthlessness, it means you:

  • Roll 3 dice (with the TL)
  • You get to change 1 hit to a Crit
  • FCS lets you re-roll one die 
  • Ruthlessness lets you change one result into a hit....and hit another nearby ship.  

Adv Targeting combined with FCS lets you automatically get the Crit that you had in 1.0, right?  Or can you not modify a modify?

This is crazy good.  You will get to roll 3 dice and adjust 3 dice.  

Even without Ruthlessness, you can give generics the FCS and they are doing really well.   I'm quite happy with these ships.

Ruthless needs a friendly ship to damage to trigger its effect ... for reasons.

FCS does not guarantee a crit, it just lets you reroll one die.  You can reroll right into another blank or focus result.

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2 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Ruthless needs a friendly ship to damage to trigger its effect ... for reasons.

FCS does not guarantee a crit, it just lets you reroll one die.  You can reroll right into another blank or focus result.

That's right....FCS lets you reroll one.

So......I'm not sure I'm getting Ruthless.  You have to attack one of YOUR ships.  If you do, you get to do an auto damage to the enemy at Range 0-1.  Also....you can change one of those attack dice on a friendly ship....to a hit.   Why would you want that?  Other than to drop it from a crit to a hit.

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Just now, heychadwick said:

That's right....FCS lets you reroll one.

So......I'm not sure I'm getting Ruthless.  You have to attack one of YOUR ships.  If you do, you get to do an auto damage to the enemy at Range 0-1.  Also....you can change one of those attack dice on a friendly ship....to a hit.   Why would you want that?  Other than to drop it from a crit to a hit.

Ruthless requires you to deal one damage to your ally at range 1 of the target.  If you do that then you get to change one of your attack dice to a hit.  It's not good.

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