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Lace Jetstreamer

Genius 2.0 is Broken

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Quote

After you fully execute a maneuver, if you have not dropped or launched a device this round, you may drop 1 bomb.

Devices are dropped during the systems phase (before the activation phase). 

Problems

  • Only mechanism IN THE GAME that allows dropping of bombs outside of systems phase
  • SCUM Only - 4 out of 5 factions cannot do this broken mechanic
  • Inconsistent gameplay
  • Extremely unpredictable
  • Ways for ships to not self damage (boost) but still be able to drop bombs on their targets
  • Advanced Sensor repositions again allows too much flexibility for scum bombers
  • Is 1.0 thinking

Solution

The ideal solution is to just remove the card from the game.  However, if FFG wants to keep the card in, I think it should read.

Quote

Before executing a maneuver, if you have not dropped or launched a device this round and HAVE NOT performed any actions, you may drop 1 bomb.

Why?  Opponents will have MORE information regarding where a bomb will be placed.  A bomb is still being dropped outside of the system's phase but it will be dropped in a location that a player can easily predict and can avoid.  It still provides scum players with an advantage that other factions DO NOT have but that advantaged is balanced.   I have also made sure that players can't advance sensor boost or barrel roll before dropping which again is OP.  

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2 minutes ago, Babaganoosh said:

Cool; what if the card costs 30 points? Still broken? How about 60? 

The card is still broken regardless of cost.  I gave my supporting evidence for this.  Increasing the cost just means the card will be impossible to use.

Edited by Lace Jetstreamer

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9 minutes ago, pickirk01 said:

I don't have every ship and upgrade slot memorized and I'm currently unable to check my squad builder of choice (I am not trying to be snarky, I really can't access those things at the moment.)

FFG has not yet released upgrade slots for ships yet as they have not released a squad builder for 2.0.  

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2 minutes ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:

FFG has not yet released upgrade slots for ships yet as they have not released a squad builder for 2.0.  

(I think I answered my own question by remembering a recent match I had)  I lost a close match the other day to a Nym, Kuulbee and 2 harpoon Bandits list in which the bandits Harpoons hit me hard.  If genius had cost even 2 points, then my opponent would have had to cut out one of those harpoons and the outcome would have been very different.  (I was flying a fun U-Wing and 3 X-Wing list with all Rogue One characters - was not a tournament list by any means.)

 

And I am sorry, but you are rebutting my argument, "We don't know costs yet" by saying, "We don't know upgrade slots yet?"  You don't find that a little ironic?

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1 minute ago, pickirk01 said:

And I am sorry, but you are rebutting my argument, "We don't know costs yet" by saying, "We don't know upgrade slots yet?"  You don't find that a little ironic?

No.  You aren't addressing the issues that I raised with allowing Genius to work the way it is.  The core gameplay mechanic of Genius is not FAIR.  Costs and upgrade slots are not relevant at this point.  The way the card is written, it allows for potential abuse even if a systems & astromech slot is not available on a bomber on release.  There is always the possibility of new scums ships including those.  I have included a fix that I think is more fair and allows for more consistent gameplay.  Why do you not address those points?

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Seems like hyperbole to me at best (trolling at worst) @Lace Jetstreamer.

There are going to be upgrade cards that break the standard operation of the game mechanics.   That is not “1.0” thinking, but a common game design.   Many games will give you things that break the rules of the game.  

There are ways to stop “Genius” blocking is one of them, cant fully execute a maneuver, you can't drop.  

Second, the two scum ships that can take astromechs, the y-wing and scurrg, don't have access to boost - remember that engine upgrade no longer gives the boost action, only gives a white version if you have a red already.

the scuurg can take the ablative plating upgrade to avoid damage from a bomb.

even with barrel roll, it is unlikely you will get out of range of a detonation device, barring the seismic, and even then you may not.  

Dismissing cost as a way of balancing a card is ignoring one of the design tenants of 2.0, which you are trying to hold sacred, is a bit hypocritical.

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3 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

There are ways to stop “Genius” blocking is one of them, cant fully execute a maneuver, you can't drop.  

Advanced Sensor Barrel roll for instance makes that very challenging.  Also, there could be scum ships in the future that DO have boost.

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2 minutes ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:

No.  You aren't addressing the issues that I raised with allowing Genius to work the way it is.  The core gameplay mechanic of Genius is not FAIR.  Costs and upgrade slots are not relevant at this point.  The way the card is written, it allows for potential abuse even if a systems & astromech slot is not available on a bomber on release.  There is always the possibility of new scums ships including those.  I have included a fix that I think is more fair and allows for more consistent gameplay.  Why do you not address those points?

So first you say that costs and upgrade slots aren't relevant, and then say it could be a problem in the future based on upgrade slots?

Genius was always an upgrade that broke the rules, its just that no one cared about him till the 1.0 Scurrg came out. With 2.0 it is extremely unlikely he will be 0-cost, meaning that there is even more of a cost (beyond opportunity cost of abilities) to taking him over another astromech.

We're all worried of broken combos, yes, but trying to propose any sort of mechanics-change as a fix without knowing actual costs of cards (We know opportunity-cost so far, at least)  is completely and utterly pointless.

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6 minutes ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:

No.  You aren't addressing the issues that I raised with allowing Genius to work the way it is.  The core gameplay mechanic of Genius is not FAIR.  Costs and upgrade slots are not relevant at this point.  The way the card is written, it allows for potential abuse even if a systems & astromech slot is not available on a bomber on release.  There is always the possibility of new scums ships including those.  I have included a fix that I think is more fair and allows for more consistent gameplay.  Why do you not address those points?

Why something from SCUM should be fair?

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1 minute ago, Innese said:

Genius was always an upgrade that broke the rules, its just that no one cared about him till the 1.0 Scurrg came out. With 2.0 it is extremely unlikely he will be 0-cost, meaning that there is even more of a cost (beyond opportunity cost of abilities) to taking him over another astromech.

I have provided a solution that still breaks the rules but does so in a more predictable way for the opponent.  IE, its more fair.

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2 minutes ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:

 

I have provided a solution that still breaks the rules but does so in a more predictable way for the opponent.  IE, its more fair.

Perfect information is basically the entire opposite of how X-wing is though!

Dials are set blind, you have to try and predict what your opponent is going to do; wondering how they plan to employ an upgrade in the way it is implemented is part of the game.

Edited by Innese

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2 hours ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:

No.  You aren't addressing the issues that I raised with allowing Genius to work the way it is.  The core gameplay mechanic of Genius is not FAIR.  Costs and upgrade slots are not relevant at this point.  The way the card is written, it allows for potential abuse even if a systems & astromech slot is not available on a bomber on release.  There is always the possibility of new scums ships including those.  I have included a fix that I think is more fair and allows for more consistent gameplay.  Why do you not address those points?

I see.  You are stating your "opinion" that the card is not "fair" under any point cost.  That is your opinion and I have always been one to believe that "opinions" are never wrong because they are based on each person's unique point of view and another can never truly know what inner monologue is steering your opinion in that direction.  I can accept your opinion in that respect.

 

I simply have a differing opinion.  If an ability is very powerful, but has an appropriately high enough cost, then I believe that it will be fair.  That one powerful ability, may be over come by strategically employing several less powerful but less expensive abilities.  I enjoy the challenge of facing what seems at first to be an insurmountable obstacle but then devising a plan to overcome it with what might seem to be less powerful options. 

Edited by pickirk01

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4 minutes ago, Innese said:

Perfect information is basically the entire opposite of how X-wing is though!

Dials are set blind, you have to try and predict what your opponent is going to do; wondering how they plan to employ an upgrade in the way it is implemented is part of the game.

What was the point of moving ALL bombs & mines to the systems phase BEFORE the activation phase?

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2 minutes ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:

What was the point of moving ALL bombs & mines to the systems phase BEFORE the activation phase?

What was the point of making turrets mobile then having luke gunner. Not gonna win this jetstream. People won’t see anything as a problem till it is one. Feel free to add this to watch list though.

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2 minutes ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:

What was the point of moving ALL bombs & mines to the systems phase BEFORE the activation phase?

Because the game designers felt it was a better move for the game. In the same redesign they also gave us Genius, who breaks this rule.

If, in the efforts to re-balance the game, the game designers chose to create a single exception to a rule, they wouldn't do it without a reason.

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Genius breaks the mold. Thats the POINT. In 2.0, nobody moves before bombs. That makes it more about predicting your opponent, which is good. But Genius, one, unique card from the faction centered on disrupting the norm, does. AKA, ONE ship, at a cost, has better ability of dropping their bomb well, but it can still be prevented.

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