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Vondy

First Upgrade Fleets

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We're still very green and have only played the introductory scenario a few times thus far. We decided to build 400-point fleets with upgrade cards, but are still trying to wrap our heads around objectives so we skipped them. The flagships probably have too many upgrade cards, but right now we're just having fun and keeping it casual and thematic. Also, we don't have a super-deep set of cards to pull from just yet so one of the Gladiators didn't get Ordnance Experts. I'm playing the Rebels. My wife is playing the Imperials. We deployed tonight, but its latish, so we'll start tomorrow!

REBEL FLEET (399 Points)

  • Pelta-class Command: Mon Mothma, Raymus Antilles, Ahsoka Tano, Fighter Coordination Team, All Fighters, Follow Me!, Rapid Launch Bays, Phoenix Home (Total 116)
  • MC30c Torpedo Frigate: Ordnance Experts, Electronic Countermeasures, Expanded Launchers,  Foresight (Total 95)
  • MC30c Torpedo Frigate: Ordnance Experts, Electronic Countermeasures, Expanded Launchers,  Admonition (Total 95)
  • Luke Skywalker X-wing Squadron (Total 20) 
  • Wedge Antilles X-wing Squadron (Total 19)
  • 2x X-wing Squadron (Total 26) 
  • 2x B-wing Squadron - B-wing (Total 28)    

IMPERIAL FLEET (400 Points)

  • Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit: Grand Admiral Thrawn, Wulff Yularan, Gunnery Team, Shields to Maximum!, XI7 Turbolasers, Sovereign (Total 174)
  • Gladiator II-class Star Destroyer: Ordnance Experts, Rapid Reload, Demolisher (Total 84)     
  • Gladiator II-class Star Destroyer: Rapid Reload, Insidious (Total 73) 
  • Darth Vader TIE Advanced Squadron (Total 21)
  • Howlrunner TIE Fighter Squadron - (Total 16)
  • 4x TIE Fighter Squadron (Total 32)
Edited by Vondy

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Looks nice!  To be honest I’d drop 25 points or so from each side, but these are decent starter fleets.  Rapid reload is much more intuitive than assault proton torpedoes, but for future reference, APTs are vastly more useful.  If this were solely about performance, I’d swap them, downgrade the Glads to Glad 1s, and give them both engine techs and APTs.  The MC30 defense token suite is set up in such a way that spending accuracies against them doesn’t do much (you can rarely increase the damage by more than one.)  This ensures ECMs are completely eclipsed by early warning system; I can find a way more in-depth breakdown if you’d like.  If you’re using Rapid Launch Bays, your fighters will be dropping right where they want to be; I’d either ditch the RLBs or change AFFM to a different fleet command.  Welcome to Armada, hope you have fun!

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2 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Looks nice!  To be honest I’d drop 25 points or so from each side, but these are decent starter fleets.  Rapid reload is much more intuitive than assault proton torpedoes, but for future reference, APTs are vastly more useful.  If this were solely about performance, I’d swap them, downgrade the Glads to Glad 1s, and give them both engine techs and APTs.  The MC30 defense token suite is set up in such a way that spending accuracies against them doesn’t do much (you can rarely increase the damage by more than one.)  This ensures ECMs are completely eclipsed by early warning system; I can find a way more in-depth breakdown if you’d like.  If you’re using Rapid Launch Bays, your fighters will be dropping right where they want to be; I’d either ditch the RLBs or change AFFM to a different fleet command.  Welcome to Armada, hope you have fun!

Pretty much this, definitely second the APTs! Most of it you'll pick up playing the fleet and finding out what works and doesn't for you in your meta!

welcome to the game though, great to have you!

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11 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Looks nice!  To be honest I’d drop 25 points or so from each side, but these are decent starter fleets.  Rapid reload is much more intuitive than assault proton torpedoes, but for future reference, APTs are vastly more useful.  If this were solely about performance, I’d swap them, downgrade the Glads to Glad 1s, and give them both engine techs and APTs.  The MC30 defense token suite is set up in such a way that spending accuracies against them doesn’t do much (you can rarely increase the damage by more than one.)  This ensures ECMs are completely eclipsed by early warning system; I can find a way more in-depth breakdown if you’d like.  If you’re using Rapid Launch Bays, your fighters will be dropping right where they want to be; I’d either ditch the RLBs or change AFFM to a different fleet command.  Welcome to Armada, hope you have fun!

I appreciate your comments! I would love a more in-depth breakdown.

In truth, after deploying, I am already regretting the rapid launch bays (somewhat).

  • When I saw what she was bringing to the table I realized I was going to need to fly very carefully to survive
  • We had the same number of fighters, but my B-Wings were going to be set aside, so she was going to have more deployments than me.

Deployment #1

Most of the obstacles were to my right on the board. My MC30's are my main punching power and need to be nose on for maximum effect so I didn't want to commit them before I had to. I ended up placing Phoenix Home (speed 2) with a strong leftward rake with the obstacles between us. My thinking was to put the juicy target out in the hopes that her deployment would focus on it. If she were to deploy opposite it, the obstacles will force extra maneuvering and I can run wide around them. If she were to deploy so as to avoid the obstacles, I can turn hard and run into them.

Deployment #2

She deploys Demolisher opposite my flagship with a slight leftward (my perspective) rake pointed at one of the openings between the obstacles.

Deployment #3

I deploy Luke and Wedge at a distance of 2 in Demolisher's path. They are to one side of the obstacle that is obscuring Phoenix Home.

Deployment #4

She places two TIE fighters as a fighter screen in front of Demolisher.

Deployment #5

I place my remaining two X-Wings at a distance of 2 from Phoenix Home on the other side of the obstacle from Luke and Wedge.

Deployment #6

She deploys two more TIE fighters near Demolisher.

Deployment #7

I deploy Admonition (Speed 4) well to the left of Phoenix Home pointed at a wide gap between two of the obstacles. My thinking is that she will either have to split her forces or risk being aggressively flanked.

Deployment #8

She deploys Insidious at about a distance of 2 to the left (my perspective) of Demolisher.  

Deployment #9

I am worried about where Sovereign is going to drop, but in for a penny in for a pound. I deploy Foresight at a distance of 1 on Admonition's flank.

Deployment #10

She deploys Sovereign at a distance of 2 on the right (my perspective) Demolisher.

Deployment #11

She deploys Vader and Howlrunner in front of Sovereign

Deployment-1.jpg.8928279ac6d5979710baf4e3c078f4f9.jpg

Edited by Vondy

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1 hour ago, Vondy said:

I appreciate your comments! I would love a more in-depth breakdown.

In truth, after deploying, I am already regretting the rapid launch bays (somewhat).

  • When I saw what she was bringing to the table I realized I was going to need to fly very carefully to survive
  • We had the same number of fighters, but my B-Wings were going to be set aside, so she was going to have more deployments than me.

Deployment #1

Most of the obstacles were to my right on the board. My MC30's are my main punching power and need to be nose on for maximum effect so I didn't want to commit them before I had to. I ended up placing Phoenix Home (speed 2) with a strong leftward rake with the obstacles between us. My thinking was to put the juicy target out in the hopes that her deployment would focus on it. If she were to deploy opposite it, the obstacles will force extra maneuvering and I can run wide around them. If she were to deploy so as to avoid the obstacles, I can turn hard and run into them.

Deployment #2

She deploys Demolisher opposite my flagship with a slight leftward (my perspective) rake pointed at one of the openings between the obstacles.

Deployment #3

I deploy Luke and Wedge at a distance of 2 in Demolisher's path. They are to one side of the obstacle that is obscuring Phoenix Home.

Deployment #4

She places two TIE fighters as a fighter screen in front of Demolisher.

Deployment #5

I place my remaining two X-Wings at a distance of 2 from Phoenix Home on the other side of the obstacle from Luke and Wedge.

Deployment #6

She deploys two more TIE fighters near Demolisher.

Deployment #7

I deploy Admonition (Speed 4) well to the left of Phoenix Home pointed at a wide gap between two of the obstacles. My thinking is that she will either have to split her forces or risk being aggressively flanked.

Deployment #8

She deploys Insidious at about a distance of 2 to the left (my perspective) of Demolisher.  

Deployment #9

I am worried about where Sovereign is going to drop, but in for a penny in for a pound. I deploy Foresight at a distance of 1 on Admonition's flank.

Deployment #10

She deploys Sovereign at a distance of 2 on the right (my perspective) Demolisher.

Deployment #11

She deploys Vader and Howlrunner in front of Sovereign

 

I'd play the MC30s further apart more hammer and anvil coming in on the flanks... Phoenix home i between ready to engage, spew out b-wings and hold so the MC30s can flank and get their double arcs off..

What ships do you have, and what's you preferred playstyle? I'll whip a list up 

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11 minutes ago, EbonHawk said:

I'd play the MC30s further apart more hammer and anvil coming in on the flanks... Phoenix home i between ready to engage, spew out b-wings and hold so the MC30s can flank and get their double arcs off..

What ships do you have, and what's you preferred playstyle? I'll whip a list up 

I added a picture of the deployment above.

At present, we have:

  • Victory Star Destroyer (1) from the Core Set
  • Chimera (1)
  • Gladiator (2)
  • Raider (1)
  • Imperial Squadrons I (1)
  • Nebulon-B (2) one is from the Core Set.
  • CR90 Corvette (2) one is from the Core Set.
  • MC30 (2)
  • MC75 (1)
  • Rebel Squadrons I (1)

We're still sorting out play styles.

My wife seems to prefer jousting and brawling and primarily uses fighters are a screen.

I'm more prone to maneuver and exploit squadrons / bombers to augment my ships.

 

Edited by Vondy

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2 hours ago, Vondy said:

I appreciate your comments! I would love a more in-depth breakdown.

Taken from two posts a while ago.  Note these are before EWS was a viable alternative, making ECM even less appealing.

On 3/3/2018 at 8:13 PM, The Jabbawookie said:

If he's blocking defense tokens, he's actually helping you. Say, for example, he gets four accuracies and locks down everything. He's sacrificing four dice, which is at least four damage. Had he dealt damage with those four dice your tokens would have stopped four damage anyway (3 redirected + 1 evaded), but instead you get to keep your shields and still have fresh tokens. If he just locks down your redirects, you're only taking one more damage than you would have taken otherwise (if either would have been a double hit, then you're actually still better off.) You can respond by evading, then using Admonition to discard the same evade you just spent. If you want ECMs on there, it's totally your call. But I recommend you try rolling some dice at Admonition with and without ECM, just to test.;)

 

On 3/4/2018 at 11:12 PM, The Jabbawookie said:

Here's why ECM isn't used much for the MC30.

Now, let's throw some imaginary dice at Admonition (ECMless.) Scenario a assumes he uses as many accuracies as needed; scenario b assumes he uses only damage. Bear with me, we're headed into headache territory, but you wanted elaboration.

I. Two rear arcs.

  (a. If he spends two of his dice on accuracies, laugh, discard an evade and take zero damage each time.

  (b. If he didn't use any accuracies, redirect the damage as well as discarding the evades each time, losing 3 shields on the front and one on the side (this is a prime example of how being given the choice to spend the tokens is worse, by the way.)

II. One side arc shot is taken.

 (a. You have full shields, and no evade tokens, which were useless anyway.  If he spends 2 of his dice on accuracies, laugh and eat 2 damage on your shields.

(b. You now have 0 shields in front, 2 on the close side, 3 on the far side.  If he didn't use any accuracies, redirect two to the rear.

III. One VSD-II front arc shot is taken.

  (a.  You have 1 shield on one side arc, full shields everywhere else, and no evade tokens (it sounds like the shot was close range, so these would be useless anyway.)  If he spends 2 dice on accuracies, discard a redirect and eat 3 damage: 2 to shields, 1 (we'll say a crit) to the hull.

  (b.  All your shields are gone, except on one side. Which one doesn't matter, as he's shooting your rear.  If he spends no dice on accuracies, redirect 3 damage, discard a redirect and eat 2 to the hull.

IV.  The aftermath.

  (a.  Congratulations, bold MC30! Barring further damage, you have survived the nightmare! You should have 3 hull points left.  It doesn't even matter if the VSD concentrated fire; you'd still have 2 hull points left. Now GTFO of there at full speed. :P

  (b. Your survival is uncertain, but you should be alive. You should have 2 hull points left, barring any two of the following a. Structural Damage b. a double hit c. a concentrate fire command or d. quad battery turrets. GTFO if you're alive.

 

So what did we learn? We learned ECM doesn't guarantee your survival as well as Admonition. Why? He has SW7s. He can't block the only defense token that matters at close range (redirect.) Therefore, he'll use all accuracies as damage, because they're otherwise useless; that means ECM automatically puts you in scenario b, the "bad" one. There are other intricacies here (special combinations of additional CF commands, your speed/QBTs, double hits) but we'd be here all day. None of these make scenario b a better place to be.

One more note: without the Admonition title, usually a (one CF/QBT/Structural/double/ram required at any point) and always b result in a dead MC30.

Hope this helps!

This guy was having trouble against SW-7s; given their relative rarity, accuracies get rerolled instead of spending an accuracy as damage.

On a more general note, this is a great blog/encyclopedia I found invaluable when first starting out:

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/?m=1

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BATREP

Turn one I activated Phoenix Home, revealed a squadron command, got the freebie token from Raymus Antilles, and used it to make use of "All Squadrons Follow Me!" That allowed me to send Luke, Wedge, and one vanilla X-Wing into engagement range on all of the TIE fighters except Darth Vader. I got lucky and Wedge and Luke finished off one of the TIE's right out of the gate while the others were stuck for a fight. Phoenix Home moved at 2 towards the left of the board. My wife found herself with two issues: 1) she had deployed in such a way that she couldn't maintain any kind of formation because of the obstacles, and 2) she activated Sovereign first and it ended up in a position where Demolisher had to make a hard right-hand turn (my leftward) to avoid a collision. The Sovereign also landed on top of Howlrunner so I was able to place her outside of the fighter engagement with Vader. I ended running both MC30's in a straight line at 4 towards the gap between two obstacles. Both bank manuever tokens. My wife pointed Insidious at that gap, too. Her flak did 1 damage to each of my 3 engaged X-Wings (Brace!).

Turn two, I activate Phoenix Home and reveal a squadron command. Raymus Antilles gives me a matching token. I activate Ahsoka and turn that token into a manuever token. Why? I really want to slow down to 1 and hook behind some asteroids to stay clear of the Gladiators and Sovereign. Only one X-Wing is in range. I send it right into the squadron fight and get lucky, taking out a second TIE. The MC30's slow to 3 and end up nose on with Demolisher with Insidious maneuvering towards Phoenix Home and putting them in its broadside. Demolisher fires into Foresight, whose ability combo'd with Mon Mothma, leaves it with one shield on two faces. Sovereign flaks Luke and the second vanilla X-Wing and moves, but can't maneuver around an asteroid field. Luke and Wedge kill the two remaining vanilla TIE fighters.

Turn three, Foresight gets a big roll against Demolisher, dealing 4 hull!  Demolisher, in turn, gets a huge roll, blows through Foresight's shields, and one shots Foresight. It tries to run clear of Admonition, but is still in red range. Admonition fires on both Demolisher and Insidious. Demolisher is finished off. Insidious gets its right shields knocked out. It returns fire, but Admonition is able to reduce it to losing 1 shield off of two faces. Insidious is headed at Phoenix Home. I activate Phoenix Home, reveal a squadron command, drop my B-Wings in Insidious' nose, and make a tight turn putting an asteroid between Insidious and Phoenix Home. The B-Wings deal 2 hull to Insidious. Sovereing activates Howlrunner and Vader, who leapfrog into the fighter engagement. They kill one vanilla X-Wing and reduce Luke to 1 hull. Sovereign's flak leaves Luke floating in space hoping for a rescue (squadron dead). In the squadron phase, Wedge one-shots howlrunner with 2 accuracies and 3 damage. Vader takes a hull.

Turn four,I activate Admonition and fire on Insidious, dealing two more hull. The ships movement sends it right into the middle of the remaining squadron engagement (Vader against wedge and two x-wings). Insidious is in a bad firing position. It flaks one of the B-Wings (1 hull) and takes an obstructed shot at Phoenix Home to no effect. I activate Phoenix Home, reveal a squadron dial, and let the B-Wings loose. They eat through the rest of Insidious' shields and deal 1 more hull. Phoenix Home takes its own obstructed side-arc shot and gets lucky, dealing one more hull and killing Insidious. Sovereign comes cruising around, being forced to turn hard not to go off the board, and takes a long range shot at Phoenix Home. Its a lucky roll. I'm able to whittle it down to 1 damage, but its a crit that disallows having any tokens. My Raymus Antilles-Ahsoka synergy is bust. Vader kills a vanilla X-wing. Wedge and the other vanilla X-Wing pound Vader leaving him with 1 hull.

Turn 5, I activate Phoenix Home, reveal a squadron token, and send the B-Wings at Sovereign. I do 1 whopping shield worth of damage. Phoenix Home (moving at 1) is now maneuvering hard in the hopes of getting clear of Sovereign's black die range. I make it by 2mm. Sovereign flaks the B-Wings doing 1 hull to 1 and takes a concentrate fire with its red dice out of side arc on Phoenix Home, dealing 2 more hull (including a second crit). Admonition flaks Vader, forces him to use a brace token, and move Admonition on a future pursuit course after Sovereign, which is turning hard back towards the Imperial side of the board. At this point the middle of the board has cleared out and both Admonition and Sovereign are out of range of one another. In the fighter engagement, Wedge takes out Vader.

Turn 6, I activate Phoenix Home with is positioned just right to activate Wedge and the 2 B-Wings. They conduct bombing runs on Sovereign, but the B-Wings get nothing rolls. Wedge deals 1 damage to the shields. Phoenix Home moves out of range. Sovereign flaks Wedge, dropping him to 1 hull. It also flaks one of the B-Wings, dealing 1 hull to it as well. Sovereign slows and makes a hard turn towards the center. Admonition comes barreling around in its wake, but won't be in position for an attack... until turn 7.

Rebels: 222.

Imperials: 141.

END OF BATTLE 

Thoughts:

  • Deployment MATTERS. If my wife hadn't boxed herself in and had er formation broken up by the obstacles I would have been in a much worse position.
  • So does activation order. Activating Sovereign before Demolisher and getting in its way compounded her deployment woes and forced Demolisher to evade its way into my oncoming MC30's.
  • Mon Mothma and the MC30's are made for one another.  Her synergy with Admonition's evade tokens kept it from taking catastrophic damage twice.
  • Raymus Antilles and Ahsoka have a nice synergy. Raymus Antilles and All Fighter's Follow Me! rocks. I was able to lock down most of the TIEs on my first activation.
  • I really want Hera and Rogue Squadron now. Then all four can move ala "Rogue." Add in Biggs and a few vanilla X-Wing for fodder....
  • Imperial Star Destroyers are SCARY. It used engineering tokens to remove the asteroid damage and was rocking 11 hull at the end of turn 6. If there was not a turn limit, I would have lost.
  • Thawn is not a good commander for beginners. My wife likes him, but barely used him to any effect. It was too much to remember.
  • Also, beginners should not put more than 2-3 upgrade cards on a ship. Same reason. Its too much to keep track of.
  • I forgot ECMs on Foresight (Boom!) at a key moment and Admonition. My wife never made use of Wulf Yularen, remembered gunnery teams only once, and only used one of Thrawn's dials.
  • She had a lot of fun and is now considering how she will prepare for the next battle.
  • I have only played Rebels to date. I enjoyed it, but would like to try the Imps out.

We must consider our next expansions...

 

Edited by Vondy

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Try this little ditty with the stuff you have(may have to proxy a upgrade), mc 75 and 30 to engage the opposition APTs on both with rerolls, while the pelta moves up activating 4 squadrons with raymus. Luke works to help and another APT. Wedge and Dutch love each other meaning you can ALPHA WEDGE OOOHHHH ;)... Rieekan means if that mc-30 or 75 die... they don't (only 1 zombie per round) he also keeps Luke alive if needed to hit a ship. Toryn farr helps squadrons reroll blanks and the mc30 to fish for an acc.

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 399/400  

Commander: General Rieekan

Assault Objective: Custom Objective
Defense Objective: Custom Objective
Navigation Objective: Custom Objective

 

MC75 Ordnance Cruiser (100 points)
-  Toryn Farr  ( 7  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
-  Assault Proton Torpedoes  ( 5  points) 
= 123 total ship cost

 

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
 Admonition  ( 8  points) 
-  Lando Calrissian  ( 4  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Assault Proton Torpedoes  ( 5  points) 
= 84 total ship cost

 

[ flagship ] Modified Pelta-class Command Ship (60 points)
-  General Rieekan  ( 30  points) 
-  Raymus Antilles  ( 7  points) 
-  Fighter Coordination Team  ( 3  points) 
-  Boosted Comms  ( 4  points) 
= 104 total ship cost

 

1 Wedge Antilles ( 19 points) 
1 "Dutch" Vander ( 16 points) 
1 Luke Skywalker ( 20 points) 
1 X-Wing Squadron ( 13 points) 
2 Y-Wing Squadrons ( 20 points) 
= 88 total squadron cost

Edited by EbonHawk

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9 hours ago, Vondy said:

Turn one I activated Phoenix Home, revealed a squadron command, got the freebie token from Raymus Antilles, and used it to make use of "All Squadrons Follow Me!"

Small but important detail with AFFM - you have to do this at the start of the Ship Phase. i.e. before you activate any ships. If you want to activate AFFM on turn 1 you either need Garm as your general or Hondo Ohnaka. I normally take Hondo along when I fly a similar list, especially to get those B-Wings in a better spot. But if you've got the B-wings in Rapid Launch Bays then no need. Seeing as the Pelta isn't very fast any way and not the strongest of ships you're probably better off with a Boosted Comms over RLBs.

 

Don't forget you can also use AFFM without a squadron token by discarding the card which you can do on the last turn you need the speed boost to save using the token. With Asoka you can turn the token into something else you need. 

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