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Commander Kaine

Shouldn't all Bounty Hunters (or at least Boba Fett) be Scum or Darth Vader only?

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Like 0-0-0 and BT, Boba Fett also worked with Vader, in the EU extensively. Vader is also shown to be quite liberal in his use of Bounty Hunters in both EU and nucanon. It's just part of what he does, (and other imperials often disapprove of this practice, hence the restriction).

Cooperations less significant than this have been represented in the mechanics several times. Remember, Boba Fett found Solo as an imperial agent (in the sense that he was employed by them at the moment).

This way, with a strong limitation (having Vader in your list is pretty much half of your points, or a crew carrier with -1 crew slot) the Empire's array of crew and gunner upgrades could be extended, while also maintaining flavor.

 

I could also see something like this:

Corrupt Imperial Officer

You may equip Scum only crew and gunner upgrades

You gain the [illicit] slot

 

Obviously, if such themes are extended, I'd be happy to see it with other factions as well. Rebel Kallus, etc.

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10 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Imperial Contract (Illicit) (Unique) (Scum only) - You and your upgrades may be included with any squad containing Darth Vader.

I'd be down with that, also brings up the funny feature of the Scum ship is making sure to not bring anything super illegal while doing a contract mission and risk getting arrested. I don't need it in the game, since casual you can do whatever you want, but if they did add it would be interesting. 

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1 hour ago, Commander Kaine said:

Like 0-0-0 and BT, Boba Fett also worked with Vader, in the EU extensively. Vader is also shown to be quite liberal in his use of Bounty Hunters in both EU and nucanon. It's just part of what he does, (and other imperials often disapprove of this practice, hence the restriction).

Cooperations less significant than this have been represented in the mechanics several times. Remember, Boba Fett found Solo as an imperial agent (in the sense that he was employed by them at the moment).

This way, with a strong limitation (having Vader in your list is pretty much half of your points, or a crew carrier with -1 crew slot) the Empire's array of crew and gunner upgrades could be extended, while also maintaining flavor.

 

I could also see something like this:

Corrupt Imperial Officer

You may equip Scum only crew and gunner upgrades

You gain the [illicit] slot

 

Obviously, if such themes are extended, I'd be happy to see it with other factions as well. Rebel Kallus, etc.

Hahaha,  I love the idea, but let's get real: seems good, doesn't work

Obviously I wish imperial firesprey still exists. I also would love more crossfaction pilots but it is not the choice of devs. But who knows? Maybe in in some time, they'll implement that.

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Yes absolutely, what a fantastic idea! Because it is very thematic, as Darth Vader once hired several bounty hunters to find some rebels he despised. And theme should not just inform gameplay but take priority.

Of course we should not neglect other instances where a constructive cross-faction interaction happened. For example, Han Solo starts his interaction with farmer Luke as a  clear scum faction member. Thus we should get a Luke in a T16 who can be combined with a Scum Solo. But not the young one, rather an older one. So we also should get different Lukes.

And older Luke (but not old Luke) spent some time using the dark side. Heck, he even worked with Vader to defeat the emperor. So should we rather get a Dark Luke who can team up with Vader, or a Vader who can team up with Rebels?

And don‘t forget Resistance and First Order, and their contemporary scum counterparts. Old Han is clearly not resistance but was working for King Prana hauling those Rathtars. And don‘t forget about him working with both the Guavian Death Gang AND Kanji Club! So clearly he should be allowed to combine with both Resistance and Scum. And what about Rey working with Kylo? Who should join which faction? It is all so confusing!!

Maybe it is time for double-factions entirely!

As we are using the timeline to inform squad building choices: what about the oter way, restrictions? Jyn Erso never worked with Han, so they should not be able to be in the same squad. And there are many more examples of this.

 

Or, maybe, let‘s rather not.

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1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

Yes absolutely, what a fantastic idea! Because it is very thematic, as Darth Vader once hired several bounty hunters to find some rebels he despised. And theme should not just inform gameplay but take priority.

Of course we should not neglect other instances where a constructive cross-faction interaction happened. For example, Han Solo starts his interaction with farmer Luke as a  clear scum faction member. Thus we should get a Luke in a T16 who can be combined with a Scum Solo. But not the young one, rather an older one. So we also should get different Lukes.

And older Luke (but not old Luke) spent some time using the dark side. Heck, he even worked with Vader to defeat the emperor. So should we rather get a Dark Luke who can team up with Vader, or a Vader who can team up with Rebels?

And don‘t forget Resistance and First Order, and their contemporary scum counterparts. Old Han is clearly not resistance but was working for King Prana hauling those Rathtars. And don‘t forget about him working with both the Guavian Death Gang AND Kanji Club! So clearly he should be allowed to combine with both Resistance and Scum. And what about Rey working with Kylo? Who should join which faction? It is all so confusing!!

Maybe it is time for double-factions entirely!

As we are using the timeline to inform squad building choices: what about the oter way, restrictions? Jyn Erso never worked with Han, so they should not be able to be in the same squad. And there are many more examples of this.

 

Or, maybe, let‘s rather not.

 

Oh, let's write a comment just to write it. It won't add anything to the conversation, because the fundamental problem we will bring up, exists regardless of the suggestion made in the OP. The fact is, that dual faction ships and pilots and upgrades already exist in the game, with far less significant interactions between the parties. Nevermind that the OP actually mentions this fact, but I don't really like him, so I will just write this comment anyway. I'm disregarding parts of it, to make a superficial argument against the post.

Afterall, 0-0-0  and BT were not really Vader's droids at all, and Maul isn't really working with the rebels. The fact that FFG chose to include these characters the way they did, even after a full reboot, doesn't negate my point at all.

 

Or maybe... it does.

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2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Kinda hard to crossbalance factions

Gotta balance the faction itself AND any potential faction mixing combos

Seems a very undue headache 

This is why I suggested the way I did.

Obviously not every bounty hunter was associated with Vader. Black Krrssantan (or however he is spelled) is one, and the classic ESB bounty hunters of course. With such a limited pool of characters (Could be just Boba, Santy, and the murderdroids), balancing becomes much easier.

Using a more generic approach like @HolySorcerer suggested, would be more problematic.

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With this approach, all scum should be triple faction because it's thematic. They are supposed to sell their talents after all. And why not han piloting a lambda for rebel? All those ideas belong to custom cards and homebrew campaign IMHO. They are still fun enough to talk about

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1 hour ago, Commander Kaine said:

because the fundamental problem we will bring up, exists regardless of the suggestion made in the OP

Oh sorry for actually reading your post including title:

Quote

Shouldn't all Bounty Hunters

What you‘re doing is by the way a Motte&Bailey.

1 hour ago, Commander Kaine said:

Afterall, 0-0-0  and BT were not really Vader's droids at all, and Maul isn't really working with the rebels. The fact that FFG chose to include these characters the way they did, even after a full reboot, doesn't negate my point at all.

Oh but using pilots/crew specifically designed for cross faction play does negate the idea the repurposing pilots/crew after being made to be played cross faction.

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5 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Like 0-0-0 and BT, Boba Fett also worked with Vader, in the EU extensively. Vader is also shown to be quite liberal in his use of Bounty Hunters in both EU and nucanon. It's just part of what he does, (and other imperials often disapprove of this practice, hence the restriction).

Cooperations less significant than this have been represented in the mechanics several times. Remember, Boba Fett found Solo as an imperial agent (in the sense that he was employed by them at the moment).

This way, with a strong limitation (having Vader in your list is pretty much half of your points, or a crew carrier with -1 crew slot) the Empire's array of crew and gunner upgrades could be extended, while also maintaining flavor.

 

I could also see something like this:

Corrupt Imperial Officer

You may equip Scum only crew and gunner upgrades

You gain the [illicit] slot

 

Obviously, if such themes are extended, I'd be happy to see it with other factions as well. Rebel Kallus, etc.

5 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Imperial Contract (Illicit) (Unique) (Scum only) - You and your upgrades may be included with any squad containing Darth Vader.

Interesting ideas, but I agree there would likely be balancing issues.  Specifically, there's a big difference between having a single card designed specifically to fit in multiple factions and a card that lets you pull freely from another faction.  In the former case, only the one card really needs to take into consideration both factions' cards.  In the latter, every single card that meets the conditions needs to be considered for both factions.

Though, it would be rather fun in scenario play to mix Scum in with one faction or the other (or if Scum get threatening enough, even have Imps and Rebs working together in a sort of Truce at Bakura sort of way).

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BT and 0-0-0 were specifically programmed to recognize Vader as their Master, and would be unable to refuse his orders.  I think it goes a bit beyond just working together.

//

6 hours ago, Pewpewpew BOOM said:

If this was an RPG, sure. For a tabletop game, no thanks unless it is limited to scenarios or a given campaign. Too many opportunities for abuse and balance issues.  

This.

That said, if I were involved in the rules for some sort of draft-type tournament with semi-random ships (say, with threat levels on the quick build cards), I'd allow 1 Scum ship in Rebel or Imperial main lists, or 1 Rebel or Imperial in a Scum list.  In such a case, particularly with pre-built ships where synergies would be harder to build, I think things probably wouldn't get too out of control.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Like 0-0-0 and BT, Boba Fett also worked with Vader, in the EU extensively. Vader is also shown to be quite liberal in his use of Bounty Hunters in both EU and nucanon. It's just part of what he does, (and other imperials often disapprove of this practice, hence the restriction).

What is all this I've been seeing recently about BT-1 and 0-0-0? (did they get spoiled!?😮😁)

Edited by Infinite_Maelstrom
Defender of the Empire

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4 minutes ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

What is all this I've been seeing recently about BT-1 and 0-0-0? (did they get spoiled!?😮😁)

What do you mean? They were shown in the Scum kit.

 

BT-1 (Unique, Gunner, Scum or Squad including Darth Vader only) - While you perform an attack, you may change 1 (Hit) result to a (Crit) result for each stress token the defender has.

0-0-0 (Unique, Crew, Scum or Squad including Darth Vader only) - At the start of the engagement phase, you may choose 1 enemy ship at Range 0-1. If you do, you gain 1 calculate token, unless that ship chooses to take a stress token.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

What do you mean? They were shown in the Scum kit.

 

BT-1 (Unique, Gunner, Scum or Squad including Darth Vader only) - While you perform an attack, you may change 1 (Hit) result to a (Crit) result for each stress token the defender has.

0-0-0 (Unique, Crew, Scum or Squad including Darth Vader only) - At the start of the engagement phase, you may choose 1 enemy ship at Range 0-1. If you do, you gain 1 calculate token, unless that ship chooses to take a stress token.

 

 

Oh!  I assumed they would be imperial, so checkecked all the imperial unboxings - then I looked through the fourms to find a thread dedicated to them.  Failing to find them both times, I assumed it was wishful thinking on behalf of fourummers, and hoped for an ark angel expansion so that we could get them!

BTW, do you have a link to the unboxing - that was like three weeks ago, im nit sure how I would find it anymore!  Thanks - I've been waiting for these charachters to appear in x-wing for soo long!

Edited by Infinite_Maelstrom
Defender of the Empire

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Like 0-0-0 and BT, Boba Fett also worked with Vader, in the EU extensively. Vader is also shown to be quite liberal in his use of Bounty Hunters in both EU and nucanon. It's just part of what he does, (and other imperials often disapprove of this practice, hence the restriction).

Cooperations less significant than this have been represented in the mechanics several times. Remember, Boba Fett found Solo as an imperial agent (in the sense that he was employed by them at the moment).

This way, with a strong limitation (having Vader in your list is pretty much half of your points, or a crew carrier with -1 crew slot) the Empire's array of crew and gunner upgrades could be extended, while also maintaining flavor.

 

I could also see something like this:

Corrupt Imperial Officer

You may equip Scum only crew and gunner upgrades

You gain the [illicit] slot

 

Obviously, if such themes are extended, I'd be happy to see it with other factions as well. Rebel Kallus, etc.

I don't see why bounty hunters should be Scum or Imp/Vader-only. It's not like the Rebels never hired bounty hunters or mercenaries themselves. I can see specific hunters like Fett being restricted (although IIRC even he took jobs from the Alliance and New Republic if it fit his particular honor code) but not all hunters as a blanket rule.

Edited by Ambaryerno

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I dont see why a bounty hunter should bother with sparing an Imperial / Rebel - the guy who hired me is not the guy shooting at me, and if I can do a better job, that just means my price doubled.

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I was hoping to see a 'Scum unless Vader' Boba in 2.0, specifically the pilot (and ship). I guess their 'no more dual faction pilots' rule is a hard and fast rule. They could have made the the crew option 'Scum unless Vader' just as the other previously mentioned crew, which would have been cool. Although Boba isn't going to be pursuing the Millenium Falcon riding shotgun in a Deci or a TIE Reaper. I guess they just decided Vader and Boba's relationship didn't warrant it.

I do think an Aphra crew will be donning the 'Scum unless Vader' restriction whenever she is added to the game though.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

I do think an Aphra crew will be donning the 'Scum unless Vader' restriction whenever she is added to the game though.

Hasn't Aphra worked with the Rebels, though, too? I don't currently read the comics, but from solicits, recaps, and reviews I thought she teamed up with Luke and Leia a couple times.

Edited by Ambaryerno

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

Hasn't Aphra worked with the Rebels, though, too? I don't currently read the comics, but from solicits, recaps, and reviews I thought she teamed up with Luke and Leia a couple times.

Aphra's relationship with Vader is much stronger than any other non-scum character, and the only one of real note. I don't want to talk spoilers, but if she's tagged to a faction restriction, its going to be 'Scum unless Vader'. She may well be just Scum, but that would be disappointing in my opinion.

Hondo is probably the only unique character we don't already have that would suit being factionless.

Edited by BVRCH

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32 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

Aphra's relationship with Vader is much stronger than any other non-scum character, and the only one of real note. I don't want to talk spoilers, but if she's tagged to a faction restriction, its going to be 'Scum unless Vader'.

Hondo is probably the only unique character we don't already have that would suit being factionless.

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