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If the Galactic Republic were to be a faction, should we have both pre and post-Ruusan Reformation ships under one?

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If the Galactic Republic were ever to be introduced as a faction (maybe as part of a Clone Wars expansion), should they combine ships from all eras under one banner or separate post-Ruusan Reformation ships (Clone Wars era) and pre-Ruusaan Reformation ships (Jedi Civil War, Great Galactic War, New Sith Wars etc.) as two different factions?

Though the term 'Old Republic' by Lucasfilm and fans refers to any time before Episode I, within lore it could mean anywhere between the birth of the Republic till the end of the Clone Wars when in reference to the New Republic.

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I think FFG's in a 'if it's in the era of a movie it can be considered' mindset. Adding ships from Bane's era or earlier is going to wreck the immersion for me and plenty of others, I'm sure. I could see ships that were just pre-Phantom Menace making it in, like YT- series ships and senatorial shuttles for Epic, but any earlier would really be stretching it.

As it is, the continuous new content from Disney is giving FFG all they need without expanding into the significantly less popular prequel era. If they do institute the Republic as a faction, it'd be guaranteed to be alongside the CIS/Separatists. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but how on earth is FFG going to clearly distinguish three separate 'evil' factions with the same cheap ship + ace philosophy? The FO is already an almost perfect parody of the Empire ships, just more expensive and individually slightly stronger.

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5 minutes ago, Astech said:

significantly less popular prequel era.

Umm. You know how one of the major critique points of the first EA Battlefront was no CW content? How popular prequel memes are? The current X-Wing demographic may not like the prequels, but CW content is something that a not insignificant population desires, and that population is starting to have enough disposable income for a game like this. If FFG wants X-Wing to grow, this is more and more becoming a simple way to accomplish that.

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So, I doubt we'd see any pre-Ruusan ships.  

First off, except for those people who saw the exactly 5 eligible ships from KotOR I and II (Two Republic Fighters, Sith Fighter, G-Wing, and the Ebon Hawk) and whatever ships are from TOR (I haven't played it, so I have no idea), none of them except the Ebon Hawk are iconic in any way.  They just wouldn't generate sales in the way that any from the The Clone Wars would.  I'd expect for the republic we'd see things get released in popularity order starting with Naboo and Jedi Starfighters, ARC-170s and V-Wings etc.  

The number of ships for the republic from the prequel era is almost as large as the list of rebel ships right now.  I doubt we'll see anything beyond the current time line.

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21 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Umm. You know how one of the major critique points of the first EA Battlefront was no CW content? How popular prequel memes are? The current X-Wing demographic may not like the prequels, but CW content is something that a not insignificant population desires, and that population is starting to have enough disposable income for a game like this. If FFG wants X-Wing to grow, this is more and more becoming a simple way to accomplish that.

The prequels themselves were  very poorly received. Most of the current love for the era is generated from the phenomenal Clone Wars TV series, which isn't long-lasting or truly iconic in the way the movies are. Those that grew up with TCW are only just now reaching adulthood, so FFG could see some sales, but that same demographic is also inevitably a fan of the original trilogy or, failing that, the sequel trilogy. Every new trilogy FFG takes on will take away from the sales of the others, while increasing the complexity of the game for very little mechanical reward.

Add in the sheer difficulty of adding 2 more factions to this game at such a late phase, and it's really a nonsensical model for FFG unless they've got great mechanical differences in mind in 2.0 for those 2 factions. Something more that just calculate actions for every droid ship.

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1 hour ago, Astech said:

The prequels themselves were  very poorly received. Most of the current love for the era is generated from the phenomenal Clone Wars TV series, which isn't long-lasting or truly iconic in the way the movies are. Those that grew up with TCW are only just now reaching adulthood, so FFG could see some sales, but that same demographic is also inevitably a fan of the original trilogy or, failing that, the sequel trilogy. Every new trilogy FFG takes on will take away from the sales of the others, while increasing the complexity of the game for very little mechanical reward.

Add in the sheer difficulty of adding 2 more factions to this game at such a late phase, and it's really a nonsensical model for FFG unless they've got great mechanical differences in mind in 2.0 for those 2 factions. Something more that just calculate actions for every droid ship.

Poorly received by adults, childhood-nostalgia barely cares about that. FFG and Lucasfilm are leaving money on the table and at some point they won't be able to resist that.

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Posted (edited)

WotC's Star Wars Miniature Game (the license-holder before FFG) handled it by having nine factions:

- Old Republic
- Sith Empire
- Mandolorians
- Republic
- Separatists
- Rebels
- Imperials
- New Republic
- Vong

If players wanted to do "era play," then you had five eras:

Old Republic: Old Republic vs Sith Empire vs Mandolorians
Clone Wars: Republic vs Separatists
Galactic Civil War: Rebels vs Empire
New Republic: New Republic vs Empire
New Jedi Order: New Republic vs Vong vs Sith Empire


But most people just played games like in X-Wing where each player brings the list they want to play and fight it out, regardless of era and accepting of in-faction battles (e.g. New Republic vs New Republic).  It really didn't bother most people, and it's no less thematically wonky than a Han + Luke vs Han + Luke mirror match in X-Wing.

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Astech said:

The prequels themselves were  very poorly received. Most of the current love for the era is generated from the phenomenal Clone Wars TV series, which isn't long-lasting or truly iconic in the way the movies are. Those that grew up with TCW are only just now reaching adulthood, so FFG could see some sales, but that same demographic is also inevitably a fan of the original trilogy or, failing that, the sequel trilogy. Every new trilogy FFG takes on will take away from the sales of the others, while increasing the complexity of the game for very little mechanical reward.

Add in the sheer difficulty of adding 2 more factions to this game at such a late phase, and it's really a nonsensical model for FFG unless they've got great mechanical differences in mind in 2.0 for those 2 factions. Something more that just calculate actions for every droid ship.

Such a late phase? Geez the new game ain't even out yet and wave 1 is on the horizon. This is what years of playing betas does to people, people!

Edited by Dabirdisdaword

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4 hours ago, Vector said:

If the Galactic Republic were ever to be introduced as a faction (maybe as part of a Clone Wars expansion), should they combine ships from all eras under one banner or separate post-Ruusan Reformation ships (Clone Wars era) and pre-Ruusaan Reformation ships (Jedi Civil War, Great Galactic War, New Sith Wars etc.) as two different factions?

Though the term 'Old Republic' by Lucasfilm and fans refers to any time before Episode I, within lore it could mean anywhere between the birth of the Republic till the end of the Clone Wars when in reference to the New Republic.

I highly doubt you would see much Old-Old REpublic in the game, save in the same way the ARC-170 got bumped up to "OT era."

2 hours ago, Astech said:

, but how on earth is FFG going to clearly distinguish three separate 'evil' factions with the same cheap ship + ace philosophy?

IMHO, that part is easy, and they just laid the groundwork with 2.0:

CiS is droids: ergo, ships with the new calculate action heavily featured.

The Republic includes lots of Jedi, ergo, the new Force ability heavily featured.

1 hour ago, Astech said:

The prequels themselves were  very poorly received. Most of the current love for the era is generated from the phenomenal Clone Wars TV series, which isn't long-lasting or truly iconic in the way the movies are. Those that grew up with TCW are only just now reaching adulthood, so FFG could see some sales, but that same demographic is also inevitably a fan of the original trilogy or, failing that, the sequel trilogy. Every new trilogy FFG takes on will take away from the sales of the others, while increasing the complexity of the game for very little mechanical reward.

That could very well be enough love.

IMHO, adding 2 more factions would not dilute the game, it would add options.  Moreover, it would add options that are easy to balance against one another, because the more you have compartmentalization of abilities, the less likely some overarching mechanic wrecks the game in some unexpected way.

Lastly, this game is (supposed to be) about STAR WARS.  I could care less if something adds a mechanic to the game.  People are upset that one of Vader's wingmen might no longer be represented in 2.0.  They want Obi-Wan and Yoda.  This game would be so much more interesting if it stopped focusing on points and meta, and started focusing on lore and storyline.  You can have both--one is constantly neglected.

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9 minutes ago, The Penguin UK said:

No, the eras are just too obscure.


Probably no more obscure than a Jumpmaster, in fairness.

That said, the biggest issue facing Pre-Reformation (e.g. Old Republic) content is that it's all Legends now and doesn't exist and would probably face more difficult approval processes with LFL.

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I very much doubt we'd see OLD republic stuff precisely because it is legends, and therefore expanding less, as well as less well known.

However, I think it very possible, and I hope, that CIS and Republic will become factions. I can certainly see how they might fit into the current/projected typical faction identities:

 

Rebel: 2-3 Ships. Synergistic pilots and crew. Tougher, less agile/speedy.

Imperial: 3+ Ships. Swarms/Agile Aces/Support. Lighter/more agile attack craft, lumbering support.

Scum: 2-4 Ships. Disruption. Mix of ship types.

Resistance: 2-3 Ships. Independently Tough/Efficient Ships. A tad more agile than rebels.

F/O: 2-4 Ships. Independently Aggressive Ships. A tad tougher than the Empire.

Republic: 2-4 Ships. Leader and Wingmen, maybe Jedi aces sometimes. Leaders are tough like rebels, Wingmen are a little weaker but a little faster.

CIS: 5+ Ships. Synergistic Droid Swarms. Really fast/light.

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Clone Wars content is currently generally more well-received then Sequel content so money-wise that is a factor for FFG to consider. I know if the Clone Wars factions were added I would only buy those and forget the FO and Resistance. 

Also as far as adding factions go we only have three Resistance ships right now so a single faction starter and the Clone award factions are caught up. They would also be great as Republic being a Force user-led faction and Separatist being a large cheap swarm faction.

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1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

WotC's Star Wars Miniature Game (the license-holder before FFG) handled it by having nine factions:

- Old Republic
- Sith Empire
- Mandolorians
- Republic
- Separatists
- Rebels
- Imperials
- New Republic
- Vong

If players wanted to do "era play," then you had five eras:

Old Republic: Old Republic vs Sith Empire vs Mandolorians
Clone Wars: Republic vs Separatists
Galactic Civil War: Rebels vs Empire
New Republic: New Republic vs Empire
New Jedi Order: New Republic vs Vong vs Sith Empire


But most people just played games like in X-Wing where each player brings the list they want to play and fight it out, regardless of era and accepting of in-faction battles (e.g. New Republic vs New Republic).  It really didn't bother most people, and it's no less thematically wonky than a Han + Luke vs Han + Luke mirror match in X-Wing.

Still play the WOTC game, so good! And the virtual sets have only added to it. Only place to find legends content in these Disney days. 

Also I agree with your points!

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2 hours ago, Astech said:

The prequels themselves were  very poorly received. Most of the current love for the era is generated from the phenomenal Clone Wars TV series, which isn't long-lasting or truly iconic in the way the movies are. Those that grew up with TCW are only just now reaching adulthood, so FFG could see some sales, but that same demographic is also inevitably a fan of the original trilogy or, failing that, the sequel trilogy. Every new trilogy FFG takes on will take away from the sales of the others, while increasing the complexity of the game for very little mechanical reward.

Meh, I think its more true that the prequels were simply poorly written and cast. I still enjoyed the movies as a kid, loved seeing all those Jedi out there, the ship designs were fun to see. I had plenty of friends my age and who enjoyed the movies. Like others have said, from a cinematic point of view, they weren't that good. Truly, even in the OT - which I do enjoy and loved as a kid - the writing wasn't that good. The best cinema of Star Wars from a non-fanboy point of view is likely Empire Strikes Back and Rogue One and they aren't really GREAT cinema either. The universe is awesome, the movies are fun to watch, but they aren't really challenging or thought-provoking. They're a fun, creative candy, not fine dining. So the "quality" or reception of the prequels is really not that consequential and would make little impact on the sales of this game that we, as a portion of the fan-base, love.

As for the Clone Wars TV series, which I agree is phenomenal, while not iconic, is well-written and has been woven into Rebels, which has made serious impact on the game and made FFG some money. I think venturing into the Clone Wars would get a lot of people excited about portions of the game that haven't already been previously covered. Many of the ships from the original trilogy have been released in at least one wave and many beloved Legends ships (that are becoming less Legendary and more Canon) have been released. X-Wing is running out of new ships to release. One of their only options for 2.0 is to re-released everything, which will mostly just be new Upgrades and pilots. If they want to start selling plastic again any time soon to the player base carrying over from 1.0, they need to come up with miniatures that we don't have.

2 hours ago, Astech said:

Add in the sheer difficulty of adding 2 more factions to this game at such a late phase, and it's really a nonsensical model for FFG unless they've got great mechanical differences in mind in 2.0 for those 2 factions. Something more that just calculate actions for every droid ship.

It wouldn't really be that hard. They wouldn't get released for 1.0, only 2.0, where there is the Calculate action and the Force is a thing. Not all of the CIS is made up of droids and many of the bounty hunters we saw in The Clone Wars were hired by the CIS. Honestly, deciding which S&V characters were in the CIS would probably be one of the most difficult things to do.

The Republic should be far easier. Generics are easy - predominantly clone pilots alongside many Jedi. The difficulty will be balancing out the Force against everything else because a bunch of Force users could potentially wreck everything else. Non-Force users would be more difficult to find than anything, IMO, mostly named clone Commando's, ARC Troopers, etc. Honestly, they could release a couple different Jedi Starfighters and be set for unique pilots for a long time!

Calculate would obviously be a major trend in CIS ships, but they would likely have a lot of synergy and cheap costs. They would be fairly role-specific as well, likely even more so than the Empire. We could see some new slots somewhere, perhaps Programming, but the Configuration slot is already created, so it could be used some here. I think with the CIS you end up with some pretty Scummy feel with Imperial efficiency and facelessness. It'd be harder to find named pilots and aces for them, but not impossible since there is so much content to draw from.

I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed to see Clone Wars era stuff out in a few years. As for anything pre-Phantom Menace, I have some pretty serious doubts we see anything for a long time. I hope they'd flesh out more Clone Wars long before they reach that far back in SW lore.

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I think it’s probably the better part of valor to not go much further back then Episode 1, with some allowance for events like the Great Clan Wars within say 50 years of Ep 1.

That said, I whole heartedly agree with @The Penguin UK‘s sentiment concerning the Ebon Hawk. If that ever made it, it would become the central piece that my lists would be built around for a long time. Hmm, maybe some sort of “greatest hits” kind of packs from that kind of era?

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4 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

I’d personally much rather see CW stuff brought in than Rebels junk.

There's not really much from Rebels anyhow. Rebels is responsible for bringing in the Fangs, Ghost, both Phantom I & II, TIE Adv. Proto, Defender (into the Canon), Shadowcaster, Auzituck, and the C-ROC. Could bring in the other not-Lambda, Mining Guild TIEs, and a smattering of others, but most of the important (and unimportant) ships from the series have already been inducted into X-Wing.

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7 hours ago, Astech said:

Most of the current love for the era is generated from the phenomenal Clone Wars TV series, which isn't long-lasting or truly iconic in the way the movies are.

This statement is a little ironic given today’s announcement and the excitement it’s generated :P 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

Which may make CW era stuff considerably more likely to show up in XW. 

Oh trust me Im planning this massive Clone Wars-era FFG rollout for all of their games in my head now. 

As with all things in the future I try to cultivate Jedi-like detachment. But this news has my imagination fired up and excited for what could be in store :) 

Edited by WAC47

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