Mount Doom - did we win?

[Pacificus 2]

The Ring was destroyed the same turn as the player controlling Aragorn threated out.  Any help would be much appreciated! 

[Wandalf the Gizzard 370]

When in the round did the Black Gate player threat out?

[Pacificus 2]

Sorry...Quest resolution 

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

Although it's a photo finish, I think you lost. Sorry.  Epic multiplayer mode does not allow for checking each table's progress within the round, only at the end of the round.  

The epic multiplayer card lists the win and loss conditions.  It lists both as "at the end of the round...."

So, if you resolve the text line by line in printed order, you will check for the loss conditions first, and both teams will lose.

[Pacificus 2]

I was not all that optimistic. Even though the victory conditions only referred to round it seemed logical that each play area should move from phase to phase concurrently. Since the Ringbearer has to pass a Fortitude check AFTER exploring Mt Doom it seemed like the Black Gate players have to survive their QR phase first.  Given that it was our first playong the photo finish ending (which featured an appearance by Gollum no less) was really all we could have asked for.  Can’t wait to try it again!

[PocketWraith 553]

I think you won. The Epic Multiplayer card says: " At the end of the round, if the last player at either scenario is defeated, both teams lose the game. If the Mount Doom scenario is defeated, both teams win the game." While putting them next to each other makes it more confusing, the win condition does not specify the end of the round. Losing is checked at the end of the round, but winning is instantaneous, so if you win the quest before the end of the round in which Aragorn went down you still win.

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

It's a single block of bolded text which starts with "at the end of the round."  So, resolve it line by line at the end of the round.

[dalestephenson 1,482]

Thematically, if you destroyed the Ring while Aragorn was overwhelmed at the gate, Gandalf's plan worked.

[Pacificus 2]

9 hours ago, GrandSpleen said:

It's a single block of bolded text which starts with "at the end of the round."  So, resolve it line by line at the end of the round.

That does make more sense thematically.  It is also kind of hard to believe that Caleb & co failed to imagine that the Aragorn player could be eliminated the same turn the ring was destroyed. 

[Wandalf the Gizzard 370]

If you're reading the card text as written, @GrandSpleen is correct, but I'm pretty sure that the intention is to allow a win in this circumstance, like @PocketWraith explained.

Imagine if "If the Mount Doom scenario is defeated, both teams win the game." was before the " At the end of the round, if the last player at either scenario is defeated, both teams lose the game."

[PocketWraith 553]

It also fits with what happens if you play the quests separately in campaign mode - resources are added to the Black Gate at the start of the quest phase, but only removed from the Mount Doom campaign card at the end of the round, so you get until the end of the round you lost at the Black Gate to win at Mount Doom.

[NathanH 350]

I think it's a win. Otherwise you end up with a weird situation where the Mount Doom player has won the game (according to his quest card) but hasn't won the game (according to the epic card).

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

Well to be fair, either way you get a weird situation.  The alternative is the weird situation in which the Black Gate player has lost the game (according to his threat mid-way through the round) but won the game (according to the epic card).

[Pacificus 2]

6 hours ago, NathanH said:

I think it's a win. Otherwise you end up with a weird situation where the Mount Doom player has won the game (according to his quest card) but hasn't won the game (according to the epic card).

Excellent point about the cards being contradictory. Now thinking we may have won after all. ?

[Onidsen 571]

4 hours ago, GrandSpleen said:

Well to be fair, either way you get a weird situation.  The alternative is the weird situation in which the Black Gate player has lost the game (according to his threat mid-way through the round) but won the game (according to the epic card).

Isn't this a situation that happens often in a multiplayer game. The players still win if one has threated out

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

20 minutes ago, Onidsen said:

Isn't this a situation that happens often in a multiplayer game. The players still win if one has threated out

In this case, the player who had Aragorn threated out, which would eliminate the entire table.

[Pacificus 2]

It occurs to me that that control of Aragorn might pass to the new Firs Player at the Black Gate.  Or is Aragorn out of play because the controlling player threated out?

[Wandalf the Gizzard 370]

There have been quite a few threads regarding first player elimination and characters that cause you to lose when they leave play. This was Caleb's response.

If a player is eliminated while in control of something like The One Ring or an objective-ally with game text that will cause the players to lose if it leaves play, then the players will lose the game because all of the cards under that player's control are immediately removed from the game when he is eliminated.
Cheers,
Caleb

I recommend you not read those threads, though, as they will open a whole other can of worms.

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

You should submit an official rules query about your Mt. Doom / Black Gate question though, I'd be interested to hear Caleb's ruling on it.

[Pacificus 2]

Thanks for clarification on First Player.   I didn't even know there was a way to submit questions...will advise any response.

[Pacificus 2]

Behold, a tablet from Mt Sinai: "The epic multiplayer card’s loss condition only checks at the end of the round, so if you won in the quest phase then it was a legit win." 

You were right @PocketWraith

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

Congrats! From  rules perspective, my take away is this: both win and loss conditions appear in one block of bolder text which begins with “at the end of the round.” The sentence with the win condition doesn’t have any time specification in it, and it’s a different sentence from the loss condition (which has the time specification).  I understood the “at the end of the round” to apply to both sentences, but that  is my error. It only applies to the first sentence.