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Like I say, I think it can be a 'school' of sorts, but the chances of recapturing a temple or academy of the Republic or Old Republic is unlikely to happen. I still imagine it becoming a more modern version of the Jedi Order, something more proactive and adapted to the world around it. They simply can't operate the way they used to as the government (First Order) is trying to eradicate them. I think @TheShard's description of a league is pretty good. 

At the same time I don't see why we couldn't also long term try to build up a school on Corellia. Maybe that can be an actual base of operations so people don't go space crazy by being cooped up for so long. 

With hindsight we should have done a session 0, and that is at least in part on me. 

Reesh as a Findsman does not actively care for the jedi (or really believe he is force sensitive). He hunted force users in the past (which he does sort of feel guilty about) and goes by the philosophy of you are either a hunter or prey, and its your job to choose your side. He currently is looking to stick to to the First Order to ease his conscious (and for a bit of glory towards earning his name), and if joining up with everyone will help him achieve that then he's in. His goals were left open to help him mesh at this stage, I plan to refine them as time goes on depending on what happens, but his long long term thing will be to earn his name and prove himself. worthy of of being essentially a folk-hero by passing the janwuine-jika test. What that entails I couldn't find, but that leaves some creativity to work with.  

When it comes to teaching his focus will probably be tracking, hunting and general survival skills. He'd probably impart his philosophy to those interested. He might also show padawans a grittier side of the world through hunting etc, where sometime you have to do things that wouldn't necessarily be light side to be survive, or to do bad to avoid terrible. 

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What about after the initially part Arissa? 

Ok so based on rabo's idea can still work in maybe a modified way.

Maybe me and Korath could found a jedi school. Be forced into tolerating the moral conundrum of their violent ways because a much greater villan appears. 

So perhaps the school and the league are different at first and the closer we come towards each other in views the more we'll work closely together even maybe at the school?

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Jonas' goal (once he figures out what's going on) would probably be to rebuild they Jedi order, but not quite along the old lines.  He would not be interested in having the order serve any past, current or future Republic as a military arm --- he believed in that firmly enough to abandon the Order at the start of the Clone Wars.  Serving as a police force for the galaxy would also be something Jonas would frown upon.  Korath or Akua might disagree with Jonas here.

Eliminating First Order aligned darksiders would be something he would also be in favor of.    And he wouldn't be too picky about his alliances in that regard.

Like Arissa, he would very much like to seek out dark side artifacts... though I suspect that Arissa would not be amused to find that Jonas would purposefully destroy them.

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19 hours ago, TheShard said:

Ok... So I'm really torn here. 

At least in the character sense Drez'n is much more like Korath in this situation. And both are a representation of the old. However, I'm not sure how this "school" will work. 

What's its purpose? For Drez'n it would be to reestablish a school on Corellia. For Korath its to re-establish the order itself regardless of where. At least as i understands it. 

However what is the purpose for everyone else? 

Does a school at this point make sense given such conflicting philosophies?

Perhaps its a sort of desperate and uncomfortable alliance or "league" instead, against a terrible enough foe to make us put aside our differences.

I think we never had a good and proper session 0.

So lets do that.

Tramp has some specific unfinished business Korath needs to accomplish? As well as set up a school.

Drez'n it is to restablish the green jedi, and to use it as a ward against a coming evil much bigger than the imperial remnants, n.o. or otherwise. Maybe this is the Knights of Ren Maybe something worse. 

What does everyone else think?

 

19 hours ago, Rabobankrider said:

Like I say, I think it can be a 'school' of sorts, but the chances of recapturing a temple or academy of the Republic or Old Republic is unlikely to happen. I still imagine it becoming a more modern version of the Jedi Order, something more proactive and adapted to the world around it. They simply can't operate the way they used to as the government (First Order) is trying to eradicate them. I think @TheShard's description of a league is pretty good. 

At the same time I don't see why we couldn't also long term try to build up a school on Corellia. Maybe that can be an actual base of operations so people don't go space crazy by being cooped up for so long. 

With hindsight we should have done a session 0, and that is at least in part on me. 

Reesh as a Findsman does not actively care for the jedi (or really believe he is force sensitive). He hunted force users in the past (which he does sort of feel guilty about) and goes by the philosophy of you are either a hunter or prey, and its your job to choose your side. He currently is looking to stick to to the First Order to ease his conscious (and for a bit of glory towards earning his name), and if joining up with everyone will help him achieve that then he's in. His goals were left open to help him mesh at this stage, I plan to refine them as time goes on depending on what happens, but his long long term thing will be to earn his name and prove himself. worthy of of being essentially a folk-hero by passing the janwuine-jika test. What that entails I couldn't find, but that leaves some creativity to work with.  

When it comes to teaching his focus will probably be tracking, hunting and general survival skills. He'd probably impart his philosophy to those interested. He might also show padawans a grittier side of the world through hunting etc, where sometime you have to do things that wouldn't necessarily be light side to be survive, or to do bad to avoid terrible. 

The Jedi Star is built as a mobile academy, of sorts, much like the Chu'unthor, the Crucible, and Master Arca Jeth's SunGem. And yes, Korath does have some "unfinished" business to deal with; namely a nemesis by the name of Mathis Karr, the  Dark Side sociopath who murdered his Master, and has been dogging Korath for years. 

19 hours ago, TheShard said:

What about after the initially part Arissa? 

Ok so based on rabo's idea can still work in maybe a modified way.

Maybe me and Korath could found a jedi school. Be forced into tolerating the moral conundrum of their violent ways because a much greater villan appears. 

So perhaps the school and the league are different at first and the closer we come towards each other in views the more we'll work closely together even maybe at the school?

The ultimate long term goal, is to recreate the Order more long the lines of how it was way back between over 4000 years ago-2000 years ago, (circa Tales of the Jedi) not how it was during the prequel era. In essence, how the Jedi originally were, much like what Luke was trying to do by seeking out the First jedi Temple. As far as a more "permanent" base of operations, I'm actually looking more at Ossus, where the ruins of the ancient Great Library are located, possibly even rebuilding it some day. This is also where we'll be going for the Gathering when it's time for the students to build their lightsabers. 

16 hours ago, Jonas Shaaf said:

Jonas' goal (once he figures out what's going on) would probably be to rebuild they Jedi order, but not quite along the old lines.  He would not be interested in having the order serve any past, current or future Republic as a military arm --- he believed in that firmly enough to abandon the Order at the start of the Clone Wars.  Serving as a police force for the galaxy would also be something Jonas would frown upon.  Korath or Akua might disagree with Jonas here.

Eliminating First Order aligned darksiders would be something he would also be in favor of.    And he wouldn't be too picky about his alliances in that regard.

Like Arissa, he would very much like to seek out dark side artifacts... though I suspect that Arissa would not be amused to find that Jonas would purposefully destroy them.

Agreed. That still leaves the question about Arissa actually training students before she herself is redeemed, much less having a personal apprentice. Granted, it was through training Vima Sunrider that Ulic Qel Droma was himself redeemed, but, that was because he actually trained her in the Light Side, not the Dark, and she was a positive influence on him. Not only that, but he was full of regret for his past evil deeds. Can the same be said of Arissa? I don't know. Would the other Jedi Masters be willing to risk it? That too is up to you guys. 

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It's not just up to jedi master characters how things are run. Also to make an old republic style jedi order, you'd still need government backing, which will be tricky till the First Order ****s off. 

Also people are definitely going to go mad if they are cooped up on a ship with no escape for long periods of time. I'd say there needs to be some kind of planetary base if only so they can stretch their legs a bit and get some fresh air etc. 

Edited by Rabobankrider

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11 minutes ago, Rabobankrider said:

It's not just up to jedi master characters how things are run. Also to make an old republic style jedi order, you'd still need government backing, which will be tricky till the First Order ****s off. 

Also people are definitely going to go mad if they are cooped up on a ship with no escape for long periods of time. I'd say there needs to be some kind of planetary base if only so they can stretch their legs a bit and get some fresh air etc. 

I agree, hence why we'll be travelling to Ossus.

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27 minutes ago, Rabobankrider said:

Would you be willing to consider the other planets that the others had requested? They would also make good start points, and would go a long way to showing some give and take among the group. 

Willing? Sure. However, from a practical standpoint, I wouldn't recommend it, not with the First Order around. The problem with a lot of the other planets is the likeliness of First Order presence or invasion. Correllia, in particular, is a major player in the galaxy, and likely a prime target for the First Order. Mandalore is one of the few planets, which could potentially hold off the First Order single-handed, given that they managed to fight off the Empire. But I still wouldn't use it for setting up a Jedi academy, or a long term base. So, I wouldn't recommend trying to set up an academy on Corelia until after the First Order is defeated, and, obviously, that won't be until after the events of Episode IX come about. The beauty of Ossus is that hardly anyone knows how to get there, or even knows it still exists. Not even the Empire could find it. Luke would, maybe Lor San Tekka might, but not many others. This is also why Ahch-to worked so well for hiding Luke. These are planets that essentially "nobody" knows how to find. Also, if we eventually hook up with the Resistance, we'll likely stay on one of their bases while with them. Not only that, but, aside from having a ready store of Adegan crystals (the best crystals for lightsabers), there are plenty of ruins which hold lost Jedi artifacts just waiting to be excavated. 

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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Corellia is a long term goal. He would compromise with the ship or Ossus.However he will pull the group towards the Corelliam system if its under threat.

Drez'n Bercilak isn't a no passion jedi, however he tolerates no gratuitous violence. He is gregarious by nature and protects the lowest of the low. Even those who are not so good. He is slow to anger however he had a righteous fury for injustice. 

He would train student's in the force by one's in a dojo by himself if need be, but he isnt going to form a school with those that don't hold themselves to similar standards. It doesn't make a lot of sense for these people to all be teachers at a jedi school.

This is why i suggested a school as a goal for the jedi. 

And a league of desperate allies for all of us.

If people disagree, or have a plausible way a school could work I'm all ears.

Edited by TheShard

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1 minute ago, TheShard said:

Corellia is a long term goal. However he will pull the group towards that system if its under threat.

Drez'n Bercilak isn't a no passion jedi, however he tolerates no gratuitous violence. He is gregarious by nature and protects the lowest of the low. Even those who are not so good. He is slow to anger however he had a righteous fury for injustice. 

He would train student's in the force by one's in a dojo by himself if need be, but he isnt going to form a school with those that don't hold themselves to similar standards. It doesn't make a lot of sense for these people to all be teachers at a jedi school.

This is why i suggested a school as a goal for the jedi. 

And a league of desperate allies for all of us.

If people disagree, or have a plausible way a school could work I'm all ears.

So I take it that he wouldn't want Arissa training any students until she's redeemed then. 

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Well yes and no. It depends. He often sees giving people purpose and responsibility as a path to redemption. However he would also be very very cautious allowing a former sith around students. It would depend on the course of events.

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4 minutes ago, TheShard said:

Well yes and no. It depends. He often sees giving people purpose and responsibility as a path to redemption. However he would also be very very cautious allowing a former sith around students. It would depend on the course of events.

I agree. 

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@Tramp Graphics, you seem to have forgotten to to tag @Lotr_Nerd, @CathyKitten, @player3333902 (who is a jedi) and me. I'm concerned right now that you seem to be trying to add a third tier of leadership to this campaign: The jedi master who make the decisions, their assistants who help and the apprentices who learn. I did say waaaaaaaaaaay back that all masters would have an equal say on matter, all matters. The point about @SithArissa teaching is no exception, and frankly from an ooc point of view it seems a bit rude that @SithArissa should be denied an equal part in leading the party  when all this was cleared in advance. Redemption is going to be an ongoing thing, that was made clear, but if you wait for paragon status it'll probably be the end of the campaign by that point, and that doesn't seem fair. 

Caution is one thing, and not a problem (it may even make for some interesting encounters), if you want maybe a jedi can hang around to keep an eye on things during training, that should put concerns to rest really, but trying to outright ban a master from teaching is well off. No one was redeemed by sitting in a room alone, if anything that will make it worse. 

Reesh isn't exactly a light sider having hunted padawans and others for the empire, are you going to try and ban him next? Or Jornek for being a smuggler? What about Jonas for abandoning the order when he was needed? You need to ooc be more willing to accept characters if only so the game does not grind to a halt over this stuff. 

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Its seems outrageous to me that this is even a discussion.

Tramp is trying anything these days to have power over other players. First it was (and i quote) 100% authority on the Jedi Star, then it was how my character Ro'Ka can act in the campaign (which was enough for me to split apart from him), now he is trying to say @SithArissa can only play the game his way. Going so far as to split the players into the ruling class (Jedi) and the subservant (non-Jedi) to get more power among the group. If this is how he is as part of a group, I will refuse to be a player while he is a GM. 

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If Arissa didn't do any obvious calling on the Dark Side, would anyone actually know she's a darksider?   The discussion of the game mechanic of redemption is orthogonal to what our players would actually know.

 

Would Jonas object to hanging out with someone flinging force lightning willy nilly?  You bet.

 

Would he punish someone for being morally conflicted, but who isn't embracing the dark side with his/her actions?  No.

 

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13 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

So I take it that he wouldn't want Arissa training any students until she's redeemed then. 

Combat training is fine, power of the darkside not so much, Elias views teaching and learning as opposite sides of the same coin, teachers learn from students as well as teach them, and teaching forces you to think and reevaluate what you previously thought you knew, so Arissa teaching students (with supervision/support so it doesn't get to out of hand) combat training could be a path to her redemption, and Elias comes down on the redemption via gentle encouragement rather than forced conversion or be ostracized.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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Uh well, actually akua isnt dat innocent either XD. She's a jedi but she did have a romance before during the cw. So... yeah. I dun think we should seperate people actually, i agree with what everyone has said. 

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8 hours ago, Rabobankrider said:

@Tramp Graphics, you seem to have forgotten to to tag @Lotr_Nerd, @CathyKitten, @player3333902 (who is a jedi) and me. I'm concerned right now that you seem to be trying to add a third tier of leadership to this campaign: The jedi master who make the decisions, their assistants who help and the apprentices who learn. I did say waaaaaaaaaaay back that all masters would have an equal say on matter, all matters. The point about @SithArissa teaching is no exception, and frankly from an ooc point of view it seems a bit rude that @SithArissa should be denied an equal part in leading the party  when all this was cleared in advance. Redemption is going to be an ongoing thing, that was made clear, but if you wait for paragon status it'll probably be the end of the campaign by that point, and that doesn't seem fair. 

Caution is one thing, and not a problem (it may even make for some interesting encounters), if you want maybe a jedi can hang around to keep an eye on things during training, that should put concerns to rest really, but trying to outright ban a master from teaching is well off. No one was redeemed by sitting in a room alone, if anything that will make it worse. 

Reesh isn't exactly a light sider having hunted padawans and others for the empire, are you going to try and ban him next? Or Jornek for being a smuggler? What about Jonas for abandoning the order when he was needed? You need to ooc be more willing to accept characters if only so the game does not grind to a halt over this stuff. 

Just gonna add that akua was alive and was a general in the cw era, learning the jedi code directly from masters like windu and yoda. So i think she would have a slightly more knowledgeable view of the jedi than korrath. Just saying 

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Cathy i think the conversation I'm trying to have is how to make this work.

Tramp if you don't mind sitting back and letting me take this up, i think your doing your concern a disservice the way your articulating it.

I do get tramps objection. Jedi don't really get along with the darkside. Its the theme of at least 7 star wars movies. So having all this conflicting view points actually all teaching together seems far fetched, at least until this develops more. Which i think is a fair concern.

I'm not looking for tiers, or to be anyone's lacky. Its not gonna happen so lets put that aside. No one's gonna tolerate that.

Would people be ok with the jedi starting a jedi school. And all of us being thrown together? I think that works best thematically and gives a lot of room to satisfy everyone. That is unless people all want to be school teachers, then that would require us to figure how that will work to satisfy ALL parties.

 

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55 minutes ago, TheShard said:

Cathy i think the conversation I'm trying to have is how to make this work.

Tramp if you don't mind sitting back and letting me take this up, i think your doing your concern a disservice the way your articulating it.

I do get tramps objection. Jedi don't really get along with the darkside. Its the theme of at least 7 star wars movies. So having all this conflicting view points actually all teaching together seems far fetched, at least until this develops more. Which i think is a fair concern.

I'm not looking for tiers, or to be anyone's lacky. Its not gonna happen so lets put that aside. No one's gonna tolerate that.

Would people be ok with the jedi starting a jedi school. And all of us being thrown together? I think that works best thematically and gives a lot of room to satisfy everyone. That is unless people all want to be school teachers, then that would require us to figure how that will work to satisfy ALL parties.

 

In legends, the jedi/Luke's academy were ok with learning what they could about the Force from other traditions, about the only thing "strictly jedi" about them was philosophy and lightsabers, and I'm not sure lightsabers count as "strictly jedi."  I think that as long as all the masters steer clear of teaching darkside powers and only the Jedi teach philosophy  and there is always one jedi I structor with a non jedi instructor during lessons to make sure that happens, there shouldn't be a problem.  Elias being both Ysanna and a Jedi would be very open to collaboration between different force traditions.

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2 hours ago, TheShard said:

That is unless people all want to be school teachers, then that would require us to figure how that will work to satisfy ALL parties.

You are agreeing with Tramp then, there are PCs who are teachers (the ones who identify as Jedi) and get special treatment. All the others simply get to join but have no responsibilities or say in how the campaign is played out. 

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