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1 minute ago, Rabobankrider said:

To be fair, officially only Jonas, Drez'n, Akua and Exla'ur are fromt he proper jedi order. Also being a jedi doesn't automatically qualify you as a teacher (plenty of jedi we've seen in the films and other stuff who would make naff teachers). On the other side some of the non-jedi already have experience teaching and would probably make quite good teachers (Reesh has taught a few people at least). I'd say the best thing really would be for the masters to accept that this isn't going to be a pure jedi thing and may be a bit more modernised. I don't think really that any one master has the necessary skills to teach everything needed to learn to be a full blown jedi or whatever they end up as, and one of the things we've seen throughout he films etc is the jedi order changing. Perhaps this is another of those events. Would be pretty interesting to see that kind of transformation if nothing else. 

Actually, Korath has actually trained  over a half dozen or so Jedi to knighthood already, and was himself was trained from infancy by a Jedi Master who predated even the Ruusan Reformations. 

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1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

The same is true  of Ro'Ka, even though she is Force sensitive, she has no actual Jedi training, but, rather, combat expertise.

How do you know her backstory already? 

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2 minutes ago, CathyKitten said:

How do you know her backstory already? 

Just what's on her character sheet.  And there's nothing on it that suggests having any training as a Jedi. Whether she's had any Force training is unknown, since you never wrote up an actual background for her on her sheet. 

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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Just now, Tramp Graphics said:

Just what's on her character sheet. 

Can you NOT make wild assumptions about Ro'Ka or what other players plan to do inside the game. I know you like to talk down to people to make yourself feel superior, but please stop making assumptions about things you do not understand. 

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1 minute ago, CathyKitten said:

Can you NOT make wild assumptions about Ro'Ka or what other players plan to do inside the game. I know you like to talk down to people to make yourself feel superior, but please stop making assumptions about things you do not understand. 

I'm not talking down to anyone, Cathy. I can only go by what your character has done, how she behaves, and by what information you have provided, none of which even remotely suggested any previous training in the Jedi arts. Force training? Sure, given that she does know a few Force powers, but actual Jedi training? Not by what you little you have given us to go by. Thus, I have to conclude that your character hasn't been trained as a Jedi until , or unless, further information to the contrary becomes available. That's not making an "assumption". It's making an educated conclusion based upon available background information, and your character's actions. Now, if your character has had actual training from a Jedi Master, then it would be nice if that were mentioned in your character's background, not  simply for my sake, or that of the other players, but for whomever's turn it is to be  the GM at any given time as well. I'm not making any assumptions about what you or anyone plan for your characters in the future. I'm just discussing the current situation regarding how best to handle training the students once they're all gathered. Nothing more. So please don't take it as anything but that. 

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19 minutes ago, SithArissa said:

Maybe try not jump to conclusions about other ppls characters @Tramp Graphics?

As for teaching  I was looking forward to a little sparing Arissa would make the new characters do, and the trouble she'd get into by pushing them too far ?

I'm looking forward to what Arissa can teach as well, but, only once she's redeemed. ? I'm pretty sure, none of the Jedi would allow her to train any students as long as she's still in the grip of the Dark Side. Korath, at least, has some experience bringing someone he knew back from the brink of the Dark Side, the others, probably not so much, so I have no idea how they're going to react once she's formally introduced to the group. As long as Arissa hasn't done anything blatantly "Evil", to his knowledge, Korath is more than likely to help her redeem herself.  I don't know about Drez'n Excla'ur, or Jonas though, particularly Jonas, given his particular background. That is probably something we all might need to discuss and plan out ahead of time, including how we should handle her lodging on the Jedi Star. So, I would definitely like to know what everyone else thinks about this, and how their characters, particularly the Jedi Masters, would likely want to handle the situation so we can get a consensus. This is definitely something that should be planned out ahead of time in order to avoid any out of character hurt feelings. 

As you no doubt, know, Arissa is going to need to reach a 71 Morality in order to be redeemed, even if she doesn't maintain that level. I don't claim to know what your and @Rabobankrider have planned for her redemption arc, but I can't wait to see it unfold. 

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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12 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I'm looking forward to what Arissa can teach as well, but, only once she's redeemed

 

12 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Arissa is going to need to reach a 71 Morality in order to be redeemed,

Who put you in charge of what players can and cannot do? 

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Just now, SithArissa said:

I have no plans for her to get to 71. I'd be happy floating around 50. 

In order for her to be redeemed and no longer a Dark Side character (having to use DSPs, etc.), by RAW, she has to reach 71 Morality. She can float back down to around 50 after that, but to no longer follow the "Dark Side" rules, she needs to hit Paragon status. It's RAW. As stated on page 52 of the core rules:

Quote

Shifting allegience to the dark side requires deliberate and continuied choices. similarly, characters must focus and act in a consistent manner over an extended period of time to recover their allegience to the light. 

Once a character's Morality drops below 30, he becomes a dark side Force user. Once he becomes a dark side Force user, he remains a dark side Forc euser, even if his Morality increases above 30 at a later time.

There is only one way for a Player Character who has become a dark side Force user can become a light side Force user again and redeem himself. He must increase his Morality above 70. When his Morality increases above 70, the character is redeemed and mechanically, he functions as a light side Force user again. This applies even if his Morality later drops below 70 (although, if it falls below 30 after he becomes a light side Force user, he falls to the dark side again). 

 

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Just now, Tramp Graphics said:

In order for her to be redeemed and no longer a Dark Side character (having to use DSPs, etc.), by RAW, she has to reach 71 Morality. She can float back down to around 50 after that, but to no longer follow the "Dark Side" rules, she needs to hit Paragon status. It's RAW. As stated on page 52 of the core rules:

 

**** "RAW" its my character. 

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2 minutes ago, SithArissa said:

**** "RAW" its my character. 

Well, like I said, it's not my rule, and @Rabobankrider does usually follow the RAW as well, so... I have no problem with you wanting to have your character normally stay around the 50 Morality level, but, to actually redeem the character, that's another matter.  I don't know how anyone else feels about it, but, ultimately, it's Rabobankrider's call. 

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8 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

In order for her to be redeemed and no longer a Dark Side character (having to use DSPs, etc.), by RAW, she has to reach 71 Morality. She can float back down to around 50 after that, but to no longer follow the "Dark Side" rules, she needs to hit Paragon status. It's RAW. As stated on page 52 of the core rules:

 

This is called "talking down to someone". You are trying to look superior by implying that those you are speaking to do not know the rules. It is really rude. 

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2 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's a group decision for the whole party to decide. 

I quoted you saying: 

 

23 minutes ago, CathyKitten said:

but, only once she's redeemed

So you didnt say these words i am quoting?

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3 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's a group decision for the whole party to decide. 

No it is MY character it is MY decision on how to play her. I don't see you asking anyone elses morality to be voted on. Typically Jedi hypocrisy. Think my way or you're the bad guy. 

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4 minutes ago, CathyKitten said:

This is called "talking down to someone". You are trying to look superior by implying that those you are speaking to do not know the rules. It is really rude. 

No, I am not. First off, I already mentioned above that I presumed that she knew the rule regarding redemption.  To quote myself:

39 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

<snip>

As you no doubt, know, Arissa is going to need to reach a 71 Morality in order to be redeemed, even if she doesn't maintain that level. I don't claim to know what your and @Rabobankrider have planned for her redemption arc, but I can't wait to see it unfold. 

I am simply reiterating what the rules say. 

Just now, SithArissa said:

No it is MY character it is MY decision on how to play her. I don't see you asking anyone elses morality to be voted on. Typically Jedi hypocrisy. Think my way or you're the bad guy. 

I agree 100%, and am not telling you how to play your character. Please don't take it that I am. 

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7 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

No, I am not. First off, I already mentioned above that I presumed that she knew the rule regarding redemption.  To quote myself:

I am simply reiterating what the rules say. 

I agree 100%, and am not telling you how to play your character. Please don't take it that I am. 

It's cool tramp. I'm fully intending Xanth to be light side. But just like how you want Korath's story to pan out as you want I'd like Arissa to finish her story that never happened as I wanted. 

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Just now, SithArissa said:

It's cool tramp. I'm fully intending Xanth to be light side. But just like how you want Korath's story to pan out as you want I'd like Arissa to finish her story that never happened as I wanted. 

I know, and I have no problem with that. I'm just talking about how the Jedi Masters in the party will likely handle a Dark Side character within the group, particularly when it comes to handling the training of the students. That's all. That is what I feel is going to require a group decision, careful planning, and a consensus of the party as a whole, so as not to cause any undue out of character conflict, not how you play your character.

How you play your character is totally up to you. Just remember, one of the stipulations @Rabobankrider had for allowing Arissa in the game, while still Dark Side, was that she would have to eventually be fully redeemed, by RAW.  And that means, even if only temporarily, hitting the 71 Morality threshold. That was Rabobankrider's call, not mine. And you did agree to that, remember? ?

How that plays out, How you two want to handle it, and what you do beyond that, however, is totally up to you and him (or whoever else is GM at the time). I'm actually glad that I don't have to deal with that. ?

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For the record, Reesh would probably reason that someone who enjoys their work (fighting) is probably going to be the best to teach it, so he's going to have very little problem with Arissa's morality. Reesh himself will probably vary on the morality scale depending on how he feel at the time, as his 'code' (psychedelic mist visions used by Findsmen) is the only thing that really governs him. Also don't forget as you said, less than half the masters are jedi, so it's not just their decision how things are run.

I also never said fully redeemed. I never mentioned reaching 71 either. As far as I'm concerned a little over 50 is good enough because it shows they're trying, but realistically changing your ways in such a drastic manner could take a person years (not necessarily mechanically, but character development wise). It's a bit like asking an alcoholic to clean themselves up over a week, it's probably going to take longer. I said we could run a redemption arc, but how that ends will be organic and based completely on player actions, I'm not going to railroad morality. I actually think it would be interesting for light side characters to have their own flaws (which there are plenty from an objective pint of view) pointed out, and maybe realise there are other ways to do things, way they never considered. Star Wars is a great universe for exploring this kind of stuff thanks to all the material out there, and it'd be a shame not to make full use of it if you ask me. Again though, this is all down to players, and I will not be forcing people into set morality. 

Also @Tramp Graphics, you will have to deal with 'that'. You will be gm'ing, probably the next session as I have not been told what you wanted doing for the follow up. You only told me you want it to end on Mandalore, but after that I'm flying blind.

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1 minute ago, Rabobankrider said:

For the record, Reesh would probably reason that someone who enjoys their work (fighting) is probably going to be the best to teach it, so he's going to have very little problem with Arissa's morality. Reesh himself will probably vary on the morality scale depending on how he feel at the time, as his 'code' (psychedelic mist visions used by Findsmen) is the only thing that really governs him. Also don't forget as you said, less than half the masters are jedi, so it's not just their decision how things are run.

I also never said fully redeemed. I never mentioned reaching 71 either. As far as I'm concerned a little over 50 is good enough because it shows they're trying, but realistically changing your ways in such a drastic manner could take a person years (not necessarily mechanically, but character development wise). It's a bit like asking an alcoholic to clean themselves up over a week, it's probably going to take longer. I said we could run a redemption arc, but how that ends will be organic and based completely on player actions, I'm not going to railroad morality. I actually think it would be interesting for light side characters to have their own flaws (which there are plenty from an objective pint of view) pointed out, and maybe realise there are other ways to do things, way they never considered. Star Wars is a great universe for exploring this kind of stuff thanks to all the material out there, and it'd be a shame not to make full use of it if you ask me. Again though, this is all down to players, and I will not be forcing people into set morality. 

Also @Tramp Graphics, you will have to deal with 'that'. You will be gm'ing, probably the next session as I have not been told what you wanted doing for the follow up. You only told me you want it to end on Mandalore, but after that I'm flying blind.

Actually, I think @TheShard said he had something he might like to run, correct me if I'm wrong here Shard. I know someone said they did. My first session as GM, is gonna be the Gathering, from Nexus of Power, and that's gonna require splitting the party among multiple GMs in order to allow all of the starting characters to participate. But that's not going to be for a while yet, not until the starting characters are a bit closer to (but not yet at) Knight Level, in order to give them time to learn more about the Force, and learn to use a lightsaber. If anything, I might run a quick training session on our way to wherever the next GM in line wants to send the party. 

As far as Arissa's specific story arc, If @SithArissa has no objections, I'd prefer if you handled that during sessions you choose to run. It's gonna require many sessions anyway. This campaign is gonna be pretty open world anyway, so. 

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Ok... So I'm really torn here. 

At least in the character sense Drez'n is much more like Korath in this situation. And both are a representation of the old. However, I'm not sure how this "school" will work. 

What's its purpose? For Drez'n it would be to reestablish a school on Corellia. For Korath its to re-establish the order itself regardless of where. At least as i understands it. 

However what is the purpose for everyone else? 

Does a school at this point make sense given such conflicting philosophies?

Perhaps its a sort of desperate and uncomfortable alliance or "league" instead, against a terrible enough foe to make us put aside our differences.

I think we never had a good and proper session 0.

So lets do that.

Tramp has some specific unfinished business Korath needs to accomplish? As well as set up a school.

Drez'n it is to restablish the green jedi, and to use it as a ward against a coming evil much bigger than the imperial remnants, n.o. or otherwise. Maybe this is the Knights of Ren Maybe something worse. 

What does everyone else think?

Edited by TheShard

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Arissa is a study of the Old Ways, before the Sith Rule of Two. She believes these Sith are not true Sith neither are the First Order and need eradicated. But for that she needs an army. And perhaps she could lead this army. And Rule. 

This would be why Arissa would help initially.

Edited by SithArissa

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