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That Blasted Samophlange

2.0 and a question of size

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With several 2.0 ships getting new sculpts/resizing, I had a thought about Epic.   

We currently have 3 of the 5 epic ships in scale to the other fighters.  While if would increase the cost, would people you buy an 2.0 epic ship if it was made in scale?   

This could mean some ships don't translate well, the gr-75 for instance, but an inscale Tantive IV would be.. well.. Epic.

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Have to agree with @Sasajak.  While it might look cool, it would be tough game play wise.

Say the corvettes come in at 18".  Their base would probably need to be at least an inch wider as well.  One of them could completly cut off a whole sidi of the mat from other ships ever crossing it to the other side.  An A wing would have to do back to back 5 straights with boost to pass a corvette that is doing 2 staights.  Plus at that size the big ships would have to start in one corner and turn the whole game to avoid flying off the mat.

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On 7/9/2018 at 6:00 AM, That Blasted Samophlange said:

With several 2.0 ships getting new sculpts/resizing, I had a thought about Epic.   

We currently have 3 of the 5 epic ships in scale to the other fighters.  While if would increase the cost, would people you buy an 2.0 epic ship if it was made in scale?   

This could mean some ships don't translate well, the gr-75 for instance, but an inscale Tantive IV would be.. well.. Epic.

I would LOVE appropriate size ships in both Epic and standard. Scale models is whst drew me to the game, but FFG already are using at least 6 Different scales for the models, ranging from 1/240 to 1/500 just for standard play ships.   If epic 2.0 involved a to scale rebel transport, Hammerhead corvette, and a to scale C-roc, i'd be poor in momements, but i dont see them doing it. The models are already so big.

The Gauntlet fighter and is a good candidate for in scale epic though, as it'd be about 10 inches square. And the hounds tooth should be 12 inches a day ong with the decimator...  but alas

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On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 12:26 PM, Sasajak said:

I wouldn’t be interested.  Gameplay wise the sliding scale works too well.  

By the way, I thought the Gozanti and C-ROC are standard scale.  The Raider, Transport and Corvette are not.  So only 2 of 5 are in the standard scale.

And I think if you call the GR-75 a GR-45, an a CR-90 a CR-70, they then fall into scale.

I any event, I agree, the sliding scale is fine.

In a game where mirror matches are a thing, you just have to let some things go for the sake of play.

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Unnecessary. Besides most players that would play epic will already have the 1st edition ships. A conversion kit would be better after the rules have been adapted to 2.0 with things like charges and firing arcs.

The only thing that is scale are to be honest the production models for the movie sets. For games you just have to be flexible. Heck even video games have to adjust the scale a bit. Star Wars: Empire at War had adjusted the scale way more than Armada did. If a video game can't preserve production model scale and provide good gameplay then why the demand that the table top game, which might have more physical limitations, be restricted to production scale

Sure ships of the same class should be the same scale in relations to each other, TIE Fighter should be the same scale as an X-wing, large base YV-666 should be the same scale as YT-2400 while the models are significantly larger than the previous ships. Corvettes such as the Raider should be the same scale as the CR-90 while much larger than previously mention. Mon Calmari Star Cruisers should be at the same scale as an Imperial Star Destroyer while remaining the largest models on the table.

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So I think staying true to scale at 1/270 might be a little difficult for the CR90. If true to scale, it would be 556mm long or 21.8" that's hard to play with even on a 4x6 mat. I am picking up a couple of models that are 1/350 and that seems to hit the right balance although its still really big. The official FFG one is way to small looking IMO.

The problem with assuming the FFG CR90 might be the right scale for a CR70 is that the CR70 isn't simply a "scaled down" versions of the bigger ship.

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On 7/10/2018 at 1:26 PM, Sasajak said:

I wouldn’t be interested.  Gameplay wise the sliding scale works too well.  

By the way, I thought the Gozanti and C-ROC are standard scale.  The Raider, Transport and Corvette are not.  So only 2 of 5 are in the standard scale.

yeah, the C-roc, Tantive, and GR-75 are not even close to scale, while the Raider and Assault Carrier are too small but are closer.

the C-roc is a vastly larger version of the Gozanti for example, yet their models are close in size, with the AC actually being LARGER in some dimenions.

I'd love to see epic in 2.0 at all, as right now 2.0 is only half a game. resculpts could be cool

 

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2 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

the C-roc is a vastly larger version of the Gozanti 

No, the c-roc is just a modified gozanti, the c-roc is a little longer because of the nose, but they are about the same size and the c-roc model is in the game’s standard 1/270 scale. 

 

From the ffg announcement article

Quote

Even though the C-ROC arrives to X-Wing as a huge ship that's too large for the game's Standard Play format, it still arrives at the game's standard 1/270 scale, a

 

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/1/9/bargains-bribes-and-battles/

 

 

Edited by Forgottenlore

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6 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

No, the c-roc is just a modified gozanti, the c-roc is a little longer because of the nose, but they are about the same size and the c-roc model is in the game’s standard 1/270 scale. 

 

From the ffg announcement article

 

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/1/9/bargains-bribes-and-battles/

 

 

lol, just like the Upsilon is in scale with its 5 man Bridge being thinner than an x-wing cockpit?  FFGs sculptors are great, but also human and they make mistakes. they aldo have size and cost restrictions imposed by their employers. announcement articles are wrong a lot too, both about mechanics and models. its a plastic toy model and the scales are always a bit off, but some are waaay off, and you have to ignore glaringly obvious details to argue that it is not.

watch rebels, the source material the C-ROC was created for, and contemplate that ezra faces off with multiple Heavy droid enforcers while meeting hondo on the bridge of the ship. that Bridge is at least 5 yards across on the interior, probably closer to 7.  according to the shows artists who designed the ship, the main hull section has 3 decks with high cielings, and the top deck(where the bridge is) is nearly 45 feet wide at its broadest. it contains a hallway with both port and starboard compartments. the game models top deck is the width of a tie fighters cockpit. it simply is not possible that the Gozanti is properly rendered in X-wing.  its possible that they got the length right but thinned it way down to make it light enough for the bases, but its off

the game model, same as the hounds tooth, upsilon, and Gr75, etc, is not in 1/270 scale. they shrunk it for production purposes.  And thsts totally fine, its a plastic toy, but for ship nerds and scale junkies we would prefer models in 1/270 scale

Edited by Vontoothskie

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6 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

lol, just like the Upsilon is in scale with its 5 man Bridge being thinner than an x-wing cockpit?  FFGs sculptors are great, but also human and they make mistakes. they aldo have size and cost restrictions imposed by their employers. announcement articles are wrong a lot too, both about mechanics and models. its a plastic toy model and the scales are always a bit off, but some are waaay off, and you have to ignore glaringly obvious details to argue that it is not.

watch rebels, the source material the C-ROC was created for, and contemplate that ezra faces off with multiple Heavy droid enforcers while meeting hondo on the bridge of the ship. that Bridge is at least 5 yards across on the interior, probably closer to 7.  according to the shows artists who designed the ship, the main hull section has 3 decks with high cielings, and the top deck(where the bridge is) is nearly 45 feet wide at its broadest. it contains a hallway with both port and starboard compartments. the game models top deck is the width of a tie fighters cockpit. it simply is not possible that the Gozanti is properly rendered in X-wing.  its possible that they got the length right but thinned it way down to make it light enough for the bases, but its off

the game model, same as the hounds tooth, upsilon, and Gr75, etc, is not in 1/270 scale. they shrunk it for production purposes.  And thsts totally fine, its a plastic toy, but for ship nerds and scale junkies we would prefer models in 1/270 scale

Well I sure am glad I wasn't alone in noticing the upsilon issue. I was excited to get it and then immediately disappointed when I unboxed it. It was obviously so out-of-scale. No way could a man stand up in that cockpit. and the Hounds tooth......I could just tell that by looking at photos. As far as the C-ROC goes I really wanted to believe that it was to scale, but I just was never convinced. it always looked too small to me. scale junkie - yep that's me.

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On 7/10/2018 at 4:18 PM, pickirk01 said:

Have to agree with @Sasajak.  While it might look cool, it would be tough game play wise.

Say the corvettes come in at 18".  Their base would probably need to be at least an inch wider as well.  One of them could completly cut off a whole sidi of the mat from other ships ever crossing it to the other side.  An A wing would have to do back to back 5 straights with boost to pass a corvette that is doing 2 staights.  Plus at that size the big ships would have to start in one corner and turn the whole game to avoid flying off the mat.

well  I assume any future epic release will include new rules.   I always thought it was weird that thr huge ships moved much at all, as fighters are built to be faster.

and you are right about bases and blocking, but i assume you could just allow ships to land under them, as space is 3 dimmensiinal.

a few people have made enourmous ships for x-wing and had fun playing them with house rules, so its doable.  hopefully thats what the delay is about with epic, just FFG trying to figure it out

Edited by Vontoothskie

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from what we've seen in Clone Wars and Rebels, Corvettes and the like aren't that much slower than fighters when they go all out. but they are a lot less agile and less maneuverable.

 

but yeah, the measurement tools need to be tweaked to balance out the big ship vs smaller ships dynamic.

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On 11/14/2018 at 3:32 PM, ForceSensitive said:

See also: Armada Super Star Destroyer

???

The standard play version is referred to as a prototype. Also, in correct scale, it would be WAY too big. It's still epic and imposing even when scaled down.

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On 10/23/2018 at 7:04 PM, mithril2098 said:

a standard imperial Gozanti is 63.8 meters.

 

On 10/23/2018 at 8:06 PM, Forgottenlore said:

Exactly. And the c-roc is a bit longer because of the nose, but is built on the same chassis. 

Yup - the 73.91m figure comes from Rebels tie-in material (previous Rebels material had it as 72.8m - but that was later slightly revised.) Both are consistent with the models.

Pics of the Broken Horn (Vizago's ship) on the ground near the Phantom, are also fairly consistent with that length.

image_b15d04ff.jpeg?region=80%2C0%2C1399

It's been argued that interior images (and bridge window images) suggest a larger ship  - closer to corvette sized:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/267142-is-the-star-destroyer-really-too-big-for-epic/

 

but I don't think that's been proven satisfactorily.

Edited by Ironlord

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