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BayushiFugu

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6 minutes ago, Hordeoverseer said:

Another bully duel card, great.

At least it is an in clan one so not everyone will be running it. Also better costed for a decent effect rather than free and insane.

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I also just noticed it is 2 influence as well, definitely not going to see as much play as Policy Debate did. There are far better Crane cards to splash for. 

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Yeah, I'm not happy that they continue to print duels that allow the challenger to pick both participants of the duel.  Maybe it's thematic, but bully duels don't feel interesting when playing the game.  That said if any clan should have a political bully duel then it should be Crane. I agree that I doubt anyone will spend influence to splash it unless we get Support Of The Crane any time soon.  I feel like it should have been just for political conflicts. That way they can't just pick on your 0 political military characters.  I would have gladly taken 0 cost and political conflict only.

Edited by phillos

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1 minute ago, phillos said:

Yeah, I'm not happy that they continue to print duels that allow the challenger to pick both participants of the duel.  Maybe it's thematic, but bully duels don't feel interesting when playing the game.  That said if any clan should have a political bully duel then it should be Crane. I agree that I doubt anyone will spend influence to splash it unless we get Support Of The Crane any time soon.  I feel like it should have been just for political conflicts. That way they can't just pick on your 0 political military characters.  I would have gladly taken 0 cost and political conflict only.

Those dashes in Political stats are looking better and better.

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The theme of this cycle definitely seems to be the corruption of the Crab.  I assumed this guy was suppose to be a Damned Berserker (though it doesn't mention it by name).  That seems to be where we are going with the Berserker tribal build between him, Amoro and Vengeful Berserker.  I like that Crab is getting a tribal deck based around Berserkers even if it's not my favorite sub-theme for the faction. 

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Honestly, Game of Sadane is an alright card. It is NOT that great. It costs 1 Fate. It can set up a Noble Sacrifice, yes, but if you are setting up a Noble Sacrifice, are you going to use this as a bully duel? Also, if your guy is already Honored or your opponent is already Dishonored, then it is less effective.

The best part of it is that it is a Duel you can trigger Kakita Blades with, which is good, and has a decent shot at giving you an Honored status. Way of the Crane is free, and Shameful Display already does this (repeatedly and free).

It's no Mists of Illusion.

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22 minutes ago, Mirith said:

Keep in mind that it will be a lot more difficult to bully duel someone like Kaede or Tadaka, who are really good people to dishonor, than it is something like hida guardian.

Yep, I think that is actually a crucial difference. Policy Debate wants you to bully the weakest link and you get the full effect for 0F. With Game of Sadane, the weaker your target, the less you get out of it and if the reason you are so ahead on POL Skill is because your character is already honored, the payoff is even smaller. On the other hand, the stronger your target the more likely it is they could actually end up winning. Interestingly, thanks to the effect of the duel, "cheating" to win with Honor loss is somewhat lessened in impact because you will gain 1 Honor back when your honored cheater leaves play. Compare to Court Games and For Shame! at 0F or Shameful Display as an ubiquitous province.

Edited by Saibot

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21 minutes ago, Saibot said:

Yep, I think that is actually a crucial difference. Policy Debate wants you to bully the weakest link and you get the full effect for 0F. With Game of Sadane, the weaker your target, the less you get out of it and if the reason you are so ahead on POL Skill is because your character is already honored, the payoff is even smaller. On the other hand, the stronger your target the more likely it is they could actually end up winning. Interestingly, thanks to the effect of the duel, "cheating" to win with Honor loss is somewhat lessened in impact because you will gain 1 Honor back when your honored cheater leaves play. Compare to Court Games and For Shame! at 0F or Shameful Display as an ubiquitous province.

IT will and won't I worry.  In a political conflict where your opposition is normally fairly skilled in Politics that will likely be the case, but since this can also be played in Military conflicts it could be a very big swing there if you come in with say a 0/3 with 2 glory, duel a 3/1 or 2/0 with 1 or 2 glory and that could be a 3-4 point swing for little investment.  Even worse if they are a bigger body and you can set up the Noble Sac off it.

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42 minutes ago, caseycheesecake said:

So...Crab are basically evil?

That's subjective.

One might say that Crab has finally started to see reason.

Also, pONIs should not cast Meishodo laden stones in glass yurts.

;)

 

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19 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

IT will and won't I worry.  In a political conflict where your opposition is normally fairly skilled in Politics that will likely be the case, but since this can also be played in Military conflicts it could be a very big swing there if you come in with say a 0/3 with 2 glory, duel a 3/1 or 2/0 with 1 or 2 glory and that could be a 3-4 point swing for little investment.  Even worse if they are a bigger body and you can set up the Noble Sac off it.

I do not think that the Noble Sacrifice argument is actually that much of a problem. If a valuable honored character is sacrificed to get rid of a valuable dishonored character, the trade is almost worse than a wash because the Crane (splash) player paid 2F for it and maybe lost extra honor. If the dishonored character had more Fate on them then you wonder where their POL attachments or card effect protection are. When a low value honored character is sacrificed to get rid of a valuable dishonored character then there was a misplay involved somewhere. The highest unmodified POL you find in characters that cost 3F or less is 3. With few exceptions the minimum 4F or more characters have is 2 POL, even Kisada. So even Kisada, with some cheating, has a realistic shot at winning Sadane against the vast majority of unmodified 3F or less characters. Of course you can be put into situation where pitting your Kisada against a roided Doji Representative (or similar) is unavoidable, but that is the same as being left to get Crab'd at the end of a bad round or sent Swimming. It is something you have to play with in mind and try to play around it.

As for the general problem of it being playable in MIL: I see the point, but it is really similar to For Shame! which costs even less and so to me this is just a consistency boost for a kind of trick Crane (and other POL clans) always had access to and so falls into the category of general power and consistency increases as the card pool expands.

Edited by Saibot

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43 minutes ago, sndwurks said:

Honestly, Game of Sadane is an alright card. It is NOT that great. It costs 1 Fate. It can set up a Noble Sacrifice, yes, but if you are setting up a Noble Sacrifice, are you going to use this as a bully duel? Also, if your guy is already Honored or your opponent is already Dishonored, then it is less effective.

The best part of it is that it is a Duel you can trigger Kakita Blades with, which is good, and has a decent shot at giving you an Honored status. Way of the Crane is free, and Shameful Display already does this (repeatedly and free).

It's no Mists of Illusion.

To put it into perspective, a Doji Whisperer has the same Pol skill as Tutori.  A Fan, Kakita Blade, or whatever and you can assure a 4 skill swing for the conflict and then a 2 honor swing when the characters leave play.  That is also not accounting for a Nobile Sac. and/or turning on Voice of Honor.  This card is almost an auto include.

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3 minutes ago, HamHamJ2 said:

I think a more common use will be honoring a big character with this, dishonoring their big character, and Nobel Sac using a Brash or Savy you honored seperately.

 

Just now, Tomello said:

I was just trying to get at that there are options.  Someone can put out their big bad and you have a fair shot to noble sac them on the cheap.

That is fair, but then For Shame! would have done the same for you, without any need for a duel, the only difference being that you have an honored character left afterwards, but you paid 1F and took the risk of a duel for that.

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