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Boris_the_Dwarf

Strike 3

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After the May announcement, I was cautiously optimistic for second edition. I’d been saying for about a year that the game needed a second edition, so the fact they were making one was good news to me... until i saw what their idea of second edition looked like. Conversion kits that still run the risk of alienating new players who have to go backward to buy ships that haven’t been reskinned, higher pricing on ship packs, and the requirement for an online app just to handle some of the most basic operating requirements of the game. In my opinion, the app is there as a cop out mechanism to allow the designers to be even sloppier with design. Now they can just change everything on the fly.

The one area I still held out hope for and defended FFG on when the topic came up was the idea that it would take multiple conversion kits to maintain playability. I based my response on the comments made by people who were in the room for the announcement. Because of the app, you won’t need multiple copies of the same upgrade card like you do now. That’s what I was hearing.

And then I opened my TIE Reaper and examined the second edition contents. I stand corrected. What a disappointment. One conversion kit for a faction might not be enough after all, if there’s a really good upgrade card that a top tier list will need 4-5 copies of.

My plan is to purchase the new starter, one imperial conversion kit and one rebel kit. Beyond that, I’m done. No more ships. No additional kits. This version has a year of life in it at best, as it has alienated veterans and new players alike. New players will have to backtrack to pick up old ships to go with the kits or wait out some future release date unless there is some other cash grab power play in the works that hasn’t been announced yet.

For me, 1.0 still has a lot of life left in it and I plan to continue enjoying that for years to come.

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1 hour ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

After the May announcement, I was cautiously optimistic for second edition. I’d been saying for about a year that the game needed a second edition, so the fact they were making one was good news to me...  

For me, 1.0 still has a lot of life left in it and I plan to continue enjoying that for years to come.

Eh?

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The app is good because the designers can tailor both points and slots on each ship and even individual pilots as needed, based on how they are performing. They've already stated that the most likely way they will introduce changes is in regular (scheduled) intervals, not on-the-fly nerfs.

 

If you want to play 1.0 that's up to you, have fun. Just don't expect a lot of people to do the same, as the changes look good as far as most can see.

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It’s almost willful ignorance to claim you must purchase multiple conversion kits.  There is an after market, multiple copies of ship cards, upgrade cards, etc. will be available, just like when Palpy and the Advance fix came in a $100 box.  If you weren’t into Epic but still wanted the cards you could hunt around a bit and find them for a price that might seem high just for miniature gaming cardboard but certainly a lot less than a C-note.

 

 

 

also, GUNBOAT.  Always GUNBOAT.

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2 hours ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

And then I opened my TIE Reaper and examined the second edition contents. I stand corrected. What a disappointment. One conversion kit for a faction might not be enough after all, if there’s a really good upgrade card that a top tier list will need 4-5 copies of.

I don't understand how the contents of this expansion caused you to make a decision on the conversion kits.

Edited by AlexW

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What everyone else in this thread is saying, plus...

3 hours ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

Conversion kits that still run the risk of alienating new players who have to go backward to buy ships that haven’t been reskinned

False. Every ship in the game is going to be re-released in Second Edition as quickly as Asmodee’s factories can pump out the ex-pacs, so nobody will have to go backwards to buy ships. Unless of course they are too impatient and just want all the ships right now. In which case they can always just buy someone else’s collection off of eBay and then buy the conversion kits which will be cheaper in the long run anyway. 

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3 hours ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

Conversion kits that still run the risk of alienating new players who have to go backward to buy ships that haven’t been reskinned, higher pricing on ship packs, and the requirement for an online app just to handle some of the most basic operating requirements of the game.

Its only alienating if you want to have everything right from the get go. As a new player who doesnt have a single ship yet, I find the convertion kit amazing. It gives me all the cards I need to test run ships, which I can buy slowly as I see fit and they come out (or their 1.0 versions if Im desperate to have them). Meanwhile my community has no problem in lending ships (and cards if you need them, specially right niw in 1.0) to people who are still building a collection.

Also the app isnt a requirement. Didnt they say thwre was going to be a downloadable pdf as well?

 

Edit: to add to the comment before: I find 1.0 alienating and is the reason I havent got into xwing so far. The need to buy ships I dont want just for cards, sometimes even from a different faction (yes I know you can buy them fromebay); and that having flying skills doesnt matter that much due to turrets, kept me away. 2.0 is fixing this and giving me all the cards to start at the same level as everyone

Edited by RafaelNN

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This is probably the best time for a new player to get into the game. They are able to pick up ships cheap on the secondary market and just buy a conversion kit or 2 and be ready to go. Think about how much content is in each kit vs the original cost to pick up some of these upgrades. The conversion kit alone is significantly cheaper than the original Palatine expansion pack. With the new model, players no longer need to buy from every faction just to get unique upgrade cards, again great for new players. Yes, old players with large collections need to spend money, but they can ease into 2.0 is they want. 

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2 hours ago, RookiePilot said:

You don’t need to make up your mind yet.  It won’t cost any more to sit tight and see how things start to unfold once 2nd edition product starts rolling out, and we get the full picture of what is really going to happen.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on every single 2.0 opinion I've seen.

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34 minutes ago, Mackaywarrior said:

I’m still cautiously optimistic. Mainly because the designers have baked in enough flexibility to not have to make this huge buy-in a thing again. I would prefer a stat book over an app though.

Statbooks really aren't compatible with FFG's release model. With every faction getting new content several times a year, you'd end up having to release a new book with each wave.

Also... FFG never said you could use only the App. Like, ever. That was people talking about casual play. It's one thing to get upset at FFG over something at least slightly misleading, like the number of generics we get in the conversion kits not matching up with the number of dials. That at least was an assumption people made based off of a weirdly specific statement FFG made. You're upset because you misunderstood something that was talked about thirdhand. And I mean, I can completely understand your disappointment if that was something you honestly thought would be supported. And if that was a major selling point of 2.0 for you, not buying in makes sense. But you can't really blame FFG for things they never said.

Edited by Squark

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47 minutes ago, Mackaywarrior said:

I’m still cautiously optimistic. Mainly because the designers have baked in enough flexibility to not have to make this huge buy-in a thing again. I would prefer a stat book over an app though.

Considering that they will have the PDF as well as the App, you could always print out the PDF and you have your stat book.

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In 1.0 if you wanted to run 4 omicron with 2 tactician each, you had to but 8 phantoms, or buy them on secondary market, if you wanted to play them in official tournaments. Outside of official play, you could proxy. 

Nothing has changed and no indication that it would change was ever given, regarding needing official copies of all the cards you are using in official play. 

Some lists are more expensive than others to field. Some are more powerful than others. It is not true that the best list are the most expensive possible, nor that the worst lists are the cheapest.

Being competitive at anything usually does cost more than being casual at it though. Decide how you want to play, and buy in to that degree. Do not feel obligated to buy above your intended level. Have fun with what you do get, and enjoy that the hobby allows individual customization.

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7 hours ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

For me, 1.0 still has a lot of life left in it and I plan to continue enjoying that for years to come.

 

This statement is demonstrably incorrect, 1.0 has no life left in it.  Accretion problems coupled with some nearsighted initial design that didn't allow for flexibility has made it into a game that would constantly struggle to add new content or even update without breaking the game.  And if you're going to house rule 1.0 anyways to stop that from being the case, then why would you not convert over to a game with a better foundation?

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2 hours ago, Squark said:

 I can completely understand your disappointment if that was something you honestly thought would be supported.

Epic.  Yeah, sure, someday, but I betting it's in the 1-2 year range.  Until then, my version of the game is dead.

And barring Epic, how long will it take to get 13 waves of ships back on the market in 2.0 form?  For me, then only new ship for all of 2018 is the Reaper.  Otherwise, it's 2.0 everything, "new" versions of the U-wing and X-Wing, and another Millennium Falcon variant (which I can easily buy and just pop on a Lando base from 1.0 for visual variety).

XWM has a long release cycle.  It will be years before this game starts expanding again.

And I have yet to see any sign that narrative playstyles will be an option. . .

20 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:

Being competitive at anything usually does cost more than being casual at it though.

Not for XWM.  Playing Epic means you want the most expensive products in the line, and are willing to buy more than 1-2 of each starfighter.  I suspect Epic players, who are typically casual, have spent more money.

8 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

This statement is demonstrably incorrect, 1.0 has no life left in it. 

As is this one.  See below.

1 hour ago, SOTL said:

I'm planning to keep 1.0 going - patch in some rules changes and start converting the new ships like Lando Falcon.

We'll make 1.0 better than 2.0.

Same here.  I would like to see a new squadron builder that allows 1.0 players total flexibility:

Blending factions (mixing scum and imps, for example).  By 2.0 rules, 1.0 already features this (FO and Empire/Rebs and Resist).

Adding 2.0 stuff to the 1.0 pool, but with 1.0 always taking precedence.

The ability to add custom cards/house rule creations.  Want the N1 Naboo now?  Add it to the builder yourself.

My brother can program; I could be his database monkey.  I just have to convince him to take on the workload. . .

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17 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Not for XWM.  Playing Epic means you want the most expensive products in the line, and are willing to buy more than 1-2 of each starfighter.  I suspect Epic players, who are typically casual, have spent more money.

Ratio of Epic casual players to standard tourney competitive players:

i haven’t a clue.

 Of course there’s provably some overlap as well. 

Maybe we should start a petition to get a poll started.  And another petition to start more petitions.

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3 hours ago, MegaSilver said:

Considering that they will have the PDF as well as the App, you could always print out the PDF and you have your stat book.

 

4 hours ago, Squark said:

Statbooks really aren't compatible with FFG's release model. With every faction getting new content several times a year, you'd end up having to release a new book with each wave.

Also... FFG never said you could use only the App. Like, ever. That was people talking about casual play. It's one thing to get upset at FFG over something at least slightly misleading, like the number of generics we get in the conversion kits not matching up with the number of dials. That at least was an assumption people made based off of a weirdly specific statement FFG made. You're upset because you misunderstood something that was talked about thirdhand. And I mean, I can completely understand your disappointment if that was something you honestly thought would be supported. And if that was a major selling point of 2.0 for you, not buying in makes sense. But you can't really blame FFG for things they never said.

A PDF covers that concern lol Thanks for the info!

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2 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Ratio of Epic casual players to standard tourney competitive players:

i haven’t a clue.

My point was not that Epic players are a groundswell for FFG financially, just that tournament players don't automatically spend the most on XWM by chasing the hotness.

In fact, I would suspect that casual players (as a demographic whole) and "narrative casual players" (as a specific individual entity) who make and buy all sorts of add-ons (3D asteroids, space stations, et. al.) spend way more on the game as a hobby than those who only buy for tournaments.

OTOH, FFG doesn't see many of those dollars, because they don't cater to those players.

If they did, I would be back to 2.0 in a flash.  But I highly doubt I'm going to see 2.0 do anything more, playstyle wise, than 1.0 ever did. 

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