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Hrathen

So has anyone tried out 5 X-wings yet.

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12 minutes ago, Hrathen said:

I think the most popular build would be with Flight Assist, however, I don’t know if I know anyone who has five of them.

1 Sheathipede+ 2 Saw's Renegades (For renegade refit 4 and 5) gets you 3. That leaves two you have to borrow/buy/barter for.

As far as how competitive the build is... They're still X-wings. You have another one now, and a talon roll and built-in barrel roll, but people have been dealing with four ships with better action economy and offense for a while. It's fun, and scary if you don't know what you're doing, but a lot of the old meta standbys will still eat you alive.

Edited by Squark

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After playing it a couple times (5 Rookies with FAA), it is joyous to fly but will take a lot to really bring it to the top tables. There is so much that hunts swarmy lists now: ultra-powerful bombs with Trajectory Simulator, Harpoons, super-alphas in general... It makes almost everything an uphill battle. 

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I'm more for 4 X-Wings with a modicrum of pilot abilities and upgrades (discussing builds in the Squad list thread "All the X-Wings"). But I guess I will try a T325 list just for the lolz.

Edited by Stefan

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1 hour ago, RampancyTW said:

It's great.  Basically the best swarm in the game right now.  Dice can screw you like with any other list, but with 30hp and 15 reds you're in business if things are average or better.

False. 5 Renagade Refit PS1 Uwings beat 5 xwings.

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I proxied some cards and tried 5 Rookies (with FAA) and they are ABSOLUTE KILLERS. They will trample anything you throw against them.

Seriously, -2 points AND +1 modification AND -1 cost for Elites for that unused torpedo slot is completely overkill.

I'm glad 2nd edition is coming because those later "fixes" are becoming ridicolous.

 

EDIT: and those Servomotors are so.. polluted. If the intention of FFG in complicating the game and cluttering their cards with so much stuff is to make people embrace the 2nd edition, then it's working.

 

Edited by Odanan

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2 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

False. 5 Renagade Refit PS1 Uwings beat 5 xwings.

Matchup-dependent, but I'd probably take the T-65s.  Higher PS, easier to get on target, reposition options, and much, much easier to fly.

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5 crackshot Zealots is strictly better than  5 IA Rookies. It’s also $30 cheaper  to put on the table.

Played a game with them today. Round 1 of engagement  a zealot took 7 damage, then the other 4 killed Tarn Mison and stripped Wedge’s shields. Next round, lost another Zealot, the remaining 3 killed Wedge. Then I got tabled by advance sensors Nym with bomblets and harpoons and turret that had been hiding at range in the rocks earlier.

They are extremely efficient jousters, but without some kind of tech they still get pwned by turreted arc-dodgers in the late game.

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I played a guy Thursday. He used 5 rookies, I used 2 rookies, Wedge and Wes... Poor dice rolls on my part and my inability to get good positioning landed me a loss. If nothing else, 5 X-Wings coming at you is intimidating as heck!

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22 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

5 crackshot Zealots is strictly better than  5 IA Rookies. 

I'm not quite sure which is better yet, but crackshot is most definitely not strictly better. 

Edited by player2072913

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They're pretty good, but aren't going to set the world on fire. At the end of the day they're still just X-wings with a single Focus token. A lot of lists can reliably pop one in a round with little trouble and don't even need to trade efficiently to get a favourable end game situation. A lot of the game's more popular ships will happily fight 2- or even 3-on-1 and back themselves to win.

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10 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

They're pretty good, but aren't going to set the world on fire. At the end of the day they're still just X-wings with a single Focus token. A lot of lists can reliably pop one in a round with little trouble and don't even need to trade efficiently to get a favourable end game situation. A lot of the game's more popular ships will happily fight 2- or even 3-on-1 and back themselves to win.

It's not about what 1 ship is capable of... But you can have 5 of them. 

X-Wings were a bit weaker than TIE fighters in the beginning. That's the basic X-Wing btw. They got better, and cheaper... Cheap enough that you can get a whole extra ship. 

5 Basic X-Wings eat 8 Basic TIE-s easily, as it was found out during the original play test. You have 5 now, but they aren't the basic X-Wings anymore. They are way better. 

 

Thank god 1.0 is ending, and I hope 2.0 will only have 4 of these. 

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31 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

X-Wings were a bit weaker than TIE fighters in the beginning. That's the basic X-Wing btw. They got better, and cheaper... Cheap enough that you can get a whole extra ship. 

5 Basic X-Wings eat 8 Basic TIE-s easily, as it was found out during the original play test. You have 5 now, but they aren't the basic X-Wings anymore. They are way better. 

Yes, the X-wings are (a lot) better than they were at wave 1, and they would definitely eat 8 TIEs alive. But so would every single top-tier list floating around at the moment, and those lists will do much the same thing to the X-wings. The only difference that fifth X-wing makes now is some -- not all -- of those lists actually have to make a bit of an effort instead of just cruising to a win.

TL;DR - These X-wings would indeed have broken wave 1 in half, but we're so far past wave 1 now that they're only going to be tier 2 at best in the current environment.

31 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Thank god 1.0 is ending, and I hope 2.0 will only have 4 of these. 

Amen to that.

Edited by DR4CO

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Well our Store Championship saw 4 X-wings and a harpoon Z come in second. Got beat by a Miranda, Fenn, Gunship list. Not sure which Wookie was used. So they were quite effective. He used the Cavern Angels with Crackshot on most of them. So they performed admirably in action. 

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Who the **** is flying 8 TIE fighters? This seems a balancing act that's not relevant anymore. You'd need a modification or title reducing TIE cost, but with 2.0, this is a closed discussion anyway. I'm glad to see classic ships on the table again, and if ships are overpowered, I prefer it to be X-Wings rather than flying bricks like the Scurrgh.

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We had an SC in Holland recently, one player from Den Haag was flying 5X. He beat Ghost/Fenn and a Deci list handily, then almost beat Faan flying Ryad/Inky/Palp Reaper, very tight match. In the hands of a good player they are very formidable, even against good players with competitive lists. A 15 dice final salvo means that they can force the approach, and thanks to boost/barrel roll, they don't fall prey to Harpoons as badly as other generic swarms. No to be underestimated. 

Edited by Bonza

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20 hours ago, RampancyTW said:

It's great.  Basically the best swarm in the game right now.  Dice can screw you like with any other list, but with 30hp and 15 reds you're in business if things are average or better.

I'd be interested to see 4x Linked Batteries/Thrust Corrector B-Wings against it.

On the one hand: Pure joust math looks surprisingly good for B-Wings with the guaranteed evade (there's a reasonable chance five 3-red focused attacks doesn't kill a B-Wing... about 24% chance of a kill, and only a 3% chance to kill one on four attacks), and Linked adds a lot of offensive power (an X-Wing dying is 77% if focused, 90% if unfocused, and even a 60% chance for just three B-Wings kill an X which has already spent focus, leaving the 4th to toss likely 2 hits onto the next one).

On the other hand: B-Wing Dials, with at least one of them getting stressed to oblivion.

//

But the head-to-head isn't really the best final arbiter.

  • Damage output is fairly similar.  Four 3-dice attacks with focus and reroll vs five 3-dice attacks with just focus is pretty close, but that doesn't entirely consider how often an X-Wing will spend focus for defense, and the fact that a B-Wing seldom will.  If you've got all tokens, however, X-Wings are slightly ahead in total hits rolled (so slightly better against a Ghost or Lambda shuttle, maybe 1 hit more across the whole squad), but they're more spread out.  Against some targets, having fewer, higher-hit attacks can be stronger (a third of a hit against 3 greens and an Evade token)
  • B-Wing dials are rough, while X-Wings are a lot more nimble.
  • Having more ships can be better when blocking or setting up kill-boxes, and early-game boost actions (whether closed wings or FAA) are strong.
  • An X-Wing is a lot squishier than a TC B-Wing.  For example, two Harpoon missiles (TL + GC/crit) has a 70% chance to ace an X-Wing, while a B-Wing cannot be killed without a Direct Hit or proc'd Major Explosion crit.  It takes a LOT to bring one of these B-Wings down in an opening engagement.  Going up against Quickdraw, Inquisitor, Yorr has a decent shot to kill an X-Wing, but a B-Wing at Range 2 would require Major Explosion into Direct Hit to die.  Against 3x Crack Glaives, a B-Wing has a 30% chance to die, while an X-Wing has 61% (with a rare-but-possible 7% chance after two Glaives).
  • B-Wings are more vulnerable to TLT fire.  Four shots from an Accuracy Corrector or Maul/Ezra TLT is likely to do 3 damage to an X-Wing (about half the time 3, and about a quarter of the time either 2 or 4), while it's almost surely 4 damage to a B-Wing, so the lower ship count will matter.

Mostly, I want to put these B-Wings on the table and see how they feel.

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