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Slaughteralus

Is Armada dead? (Serious question)

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12 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

 

No failure if there never was any communication. We have tried to have all 3 stores respect each others tournaments because we are all willing to go to each store to play. So really, the stores are fighting with each other and now they are splitting the player base. 

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I have to second that having a local leader is huge in smaller markets. I tried to be that and had minimal success. Then I got a job that became so time consuming and was helping my family when I wasn't working OT and I couldn't do what was required to maintain it. 

 

I'm unfortunately in a place where there isn't much interest or people soured on X Wing AND Armada never gained traction and some who were interested sold off. 

 

It happens. I've accepted it. 

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Our local community has been growing a bunch in Ottawa, Canada, and in part it's because we have a Facebook group for general posts, a bunch of small groups of friends, and one mid-sized group that meets regularly and posts about it so people know that they can join. We have one player who's willing to run tournaments through recently finding stores willing to run them has been a bit harder, as a bunch of our players work on weekends, so it's hard to get them out. Still, a bunch of it comes down to sseeing people post, and saying hey, I'll be out at store x at time y with Armada (and frequently other games), bring what you want and play. And, Armada is one of our more popular regular games even when people bring different ones, as people like the game play and the state of the meta (and flexibility to play lots of different types of lists). We've also managed to get a few stores to still pick up tourney kits and hoping that planning far enough in advance (again through Facebook events) that we can get enough people out to both have a great time, and convince the store that it is worth it!

But even otherwise, the regular group started because a bunch of us loved playing, kept bringing it out regularly, loan each other ships, even entire fleets to try it out and get people in. We also, week or two before a tournament aside, tend to play fun or silly lists (some of which work out way better, or worse, than expected) which means that a new player isn't always having to fly against a current top list (as it's really hard to learn against that) but that we all have fun!

Won't work for everyone, but the Facebook idea is a really key to bringing together the small groups of friends who play each other, and developing a real community... plus you get to share and discuss lists, brag, hide your head in shame etc depending on how things go :) It's work, but it's also what will give you regular opponents, and,as it DOESN'T cost the stores money, they're happy to let you do it, and then they''ll see that there is a community, and be far more wiling to buy kits, or order more stock.

Also, if anyone's near us, we're always happy to have new people join (and have lurkers from nearby cities so they can pass on invites to tournaments).

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2 hours ago, JauntyChapeau said:

You can try to create and run playgroups all you'd like, but if a game is functionally dead and no longer receiving official support from the company that printed it, that means it won't attract any new players (how could it, with no new product?) and thus will not be a going concern, going forward.

I'm waiting for Gencon.  If we get nothing Armada-related then, I'm probably out and will look at X-Wing 2.0 - I know it's not going anywhere.

I keep playing Exploding Kittens. I don't know if it's still supported ?

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2 hours ago, JauntyChapeau said:

You can try to create and run playgroups all you'd like, but if a game is functionally dead and no longer receiving official support from the company that printed it, that means it won't attract any new players (how could it, with no new product?) and thus will not be a going concern, going forward.

I'm waiting for Gencon.  If we get nothing Armada-related then, I'm probably out and will look at X-Wing 2.0 - I know it's not going anywhere.

Why?

 

By your own statement, we are still receiving official support for Armada... it nothing else:

Seasonal kits

Store Champs kits 

 

etc etc

Edited by Drasnighta

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16 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Why?

 

By your own statement, we are still receiving official support for Armada... it nothing else:

Seasonal kits

Store Champs kits 

 

etc etc

We'll see after Gencon if a new wave is announced, but Store Champ kits are perhaps the absolute laziest of all forms of product/game/community support.  If literally all we ever get from FFG is store kits, but no articles, no new ships, production and shipping problems/disinterest, the game is not, in fact, actually supported.  There will always be people who have ships and would be willing to get a game in, but any game that can no longer attract new players is dead, it's just that the body hasn't hit the floor yet.

I may change my mind a bit after a Gencon announcement, but 5-5.5 months of nearly total radio silence on a product is a pretty solid indication that they don't really take the game all that seriously.  Armada is the only Star Wars product that hasn't received an article in the last two-three weeks, and I don't believe that's a mistake.

Edited by JauntyChapeau

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13 minutes ago, JauntyChapeau said:

We'll see after Gencon if a new wave is announced, but Store Champ kits are perhaps the absolute laziest of all forms of product/game/community support.  If literally all we ever get from FFG is store kits, but no articles, no new ships, production and shipping problems/disinterest, the game is not, in fact, actually supported.  There will always be people who have ships and would be willing to get a game in, but any game that can no longer attract new players is dead, it's just that the body hasn't hit the floor yet.

I may change my mind a bit after a Gencon announcement, but 5-5.5 months of nearly total radio silence on a product is a pretty solid indication that they don't really take the game all that seriously.  Armada is the only Star Wars product that hasn't received an article in the last two-three weeks, and I don't believe that's a mistake.

I mean, we don't get articles at the speed of other games. That's not really a great argument. And it's been 4 months of radio silence, if we're being technical.

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9 minutes ago, geek19 said:

I mean, we don't get articles at the speed of other games. That's not really a great argument. And it's been 4 months of radio silence, if we're being technical.

Are we going to sit here and pretend that the level of community engagement and product support that Armada receives is indicative of a strong level of FFG commitment, considering the level of support that the other games are receiving?

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Just now, ovinomanc3r said:

Seriously? ?

Yes, imploding kittens- has an imploding cat card that gets put back into the deck faceup and can’t be defused. Targeted attacks, reverses, change the future, a few others.

Ups the max player count to 6 from 5, and comes with a “cone of shame” for the first person to ask who is up next that has the direction of play printed on it

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11 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:

Yes, imploding kittens- has an imploding cat card that gets put back into the deck faceup and can’t be defused. Targeted attacks, reverses, change the future, a few others.

Ups the max player count to 6 from 5, and comes with a “cone of shame” for the first person to ask who is up next that has the direction of play printed on it

woohoo.gif

Edited by ovinomanc3r

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4 minutes ago, JauntyChapeau said:

Are we going to sit here and pretend that the level of community engagement and product support that Armada receives is indicative of a strong level of FFG commitment, considering the level of support that the other games are receiving?

Well, I think that's kinda a hard comparison to make right now. The games they seem to be focusing community engagement and product support on are still very new. Let's presume for a moment, the sky isn't falling.  Look at their star wars line up.

They have 5 money makers:

X-wing 2.0
Legion
Armada
Destiny
Imperial assault


2.0 requires so much attention because they need to grab the attention of both new and old players. Which, with the conversion kits and balancing app, and new features, i kinda feel like they're doing it. But you also have to realize that they're fighting a lot of negativity from veterans who don't want an expensive buy in. TLDR: their biggest money maker needs the attention right now. 

Legion is new, and is an attempt to carve out a new niche by competing, at least in part,  with Warhammer 40k. It's a market that could make a lot of money for FFG and in turn requires an appropriate level of attention. 

Armada is next. Expansions are still selling. Seasonal and SC kits are still shipping. The meta is more balanced than it's ever been. They had a release just 4 months ago. The forums are still bustling with over 300,000 lifetime posts, a milestone only reached by 1 other IP (x-wing). They can afford the neglect. 

Destiny, from what I've heard, is a balancing nightmare with inherent distribution issues and is on a bit of a down slope. Could use some  attention, but the product is moving. 

Imperial Assault was niche before legion dropped and it appears that those that didn't jump ship are pretty satisfied with their app. The product is moving.



Bottom line is I don't think Armada is doing bad from a sales point of view, our tickets at worlds sold out, right? Doesn't that imply that, at the very least, we are meeting the expected quota ? (even if they made it look small in their info graph -__-;) The expansions are still selling out an being reprinted and while their hasn't been a reveal of the next wave yet, our last wave only hit last 4 1/2 months ago.

If your local group has already dissolved after only 4 months of a new wave, I'm not sure an announcement would save it. That seems indicative of other issues, IE lack of leadership, communication, or people with other priorities. 


I get the impatience, really, I do, and I'll likely whine about the lack of news like everyone else, but Armada just ain't dead. 

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8 hours ago, Akhrin said:

Reach out to other players in your community who don't play Armada yet, run demo games, loan out fleets to people interested in getting started, coach people who are picking the game up and give them the benefit of your experience. Having an active Facebook (or similar) chat for folk in your area to organise games, events, and chat list-building keeps people thinking about it. Our community has picked up quite a few more active players over the past 6-12 months this way. Let the store owner know you're happy to run demos so they can point new players your way. Book out a few tables for the players you do have currently and run mini-events at a weekend when there's going to be more footfall through the shop and people who might stop by and ask about what you're playing, Armada looks fantastic on the tabletop and people are always interested when they see it on the go. 

That type of stuff has worked well for us, your anecdotal evidence may vary. If you've already tried all that then you might be right, you might just have no one interested in the game in your area. But that's far from universal.

We have tried, but when the stores are not willing to support you. When they expect you to do all the work, with nothing from them it is difficult to keep any motivation. We have two stores in the local area that are or have sold FFG Star Wars stuff, one no longer sell any of there product and it was the only one that was willing to get the seasonal kits or store champion kits (if we payed for them), and not even willing to do this anymore. The other store still sells some stuff, but it is on the smallest shelf under all the X-Wing stuff making it easy to miss it. We have a new guy who is trying to get it going again, holding a weekly Star Wars night. He is having good success right now, but only with X-Wing and Legion as they are the games the store is willing to support as (my understanding but may be wrong, as they are the ones the store thinks FFG is supporting.) Now I know that my local area is far from universal, but my guess is that the longer FFG goes with out showing support (and seasonal kits/store champion kits do not count when the stores do not get them as players can not get them) for a game the more the stores that will reduce or eliminate support for a game that is not making them money.

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16 hours ago, Cremate said:

They do?

yup; with roleplaying games anyway, thus far. Not a good track record. Midnight, Fireborn, Dragonstar, Warhammer Fantasy RPG, etc etc

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X-wing is the foundation all of this is built on. While we don’t have to like that, when that game got stale FFG notices because it’s practically their guaranteed money maker. So they’ve poured all their resources into releasing X-wing 2.0 at a “very aggressive schedule” (this was quoted by someone at FFG on a podcast, you can go through their sectional pit of scum and villainy to find out who).

I get it. When X-wing gets back up to par and “paint your own Imperial Assualt (again)” finishes its launch they’ll come back around to this game. Hopefully with an all in to kick start some life back into it. 

The developer’s paychecks might be signed by X-wing, but they go home every night to crawl in bed next to Armada. 

Edited by Flavorabledeez

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Just my two cents, but I think FFG is just stretched too thin. I think they are still trying to run a "mom-and-pop" operation post sellout buyout by a massive corporation bent on global domination. I think they are genuine about hinting at things to come; however, if they keep getting pulled every which way to keep up with IP-palooza demanded by the Asmodee overlords, then they simply may not be able to handle everything on their design "plate" (I actually think the same of Asmodee - they make great games, too!).

By the time they can get back to established games like Armada, I think only ye dedicated few will remain.

*edit*

I know sometimes I come off as negative (or cynical), but I do really enjoy reading the Armada threads - one of the few things that keeps me coming back to FFG's site.

Truth of it is, I haven't gotten any new games by FFG since Rebellion (as a gift). I used to be a big fan of the company, but it just doesn't seem like the same care and heart is in their designs anymore (my opinion only!). Sure, there are flashes of it - but I think so much disappears with the demands of conglomeration (ie Asmodee overlords) and they are simply turning out too much "stuff".

I think the same is also true of the larger market. I think there's just too much - a glut of games if you will. We aren't going to see the same massive, long term dedication to games if there are sooo many shiny new things coming out (weekly? daily?). I think analogue gaming has become much more popular and possibly even borderline "mainstream" (thank you, Big Bang Theory? and Parks and Rec?) - but I wonder if the market is over-saturated still. Maybe I'm just a curmudgeon (this is probably it!), but there just hasn't been anything exciting me like even 6 years ago. Sure, there's a neat game or two ... but nothing that really seems to wow me (like that first game of X-Wing back in 2012).

 

TL;DR - I'm not bitter! I just think they've grown too fast too soon and can't give Armada the attention I am sure they want.

Edited by puntspeedchunk

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16 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

I’m just here to watch those Goalposts shift as I see em ?

My goalposts are Gencon.  If nothing new for Armada is announced there, I'll get FFG's unspoken message. 

And to be clear, even if we do get an announcement of a new wave at Gencon, that will be six months from the release of Wave 7.  I think typically we've had the announcement and then another 1.5-2 months until the wave itself hits stores.  Eight months between waves is pretty bad game support.

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1 minute ago, JauntyChapeau said:

My goalposts are Gencon.  If nothing new for Armada is announced there, I'll get FFG's unspoken message. 

And to be clear, even if we do get an announcement of a new wave at Gencon, that will be six months from the release of Wave 7.  I think typically we've had the announcement and then another 1.5-2 months until the wave itself hits stores.  Eight months between waves is pretty bad game support.

My (joking) statement was more you stated -NO- support, and I am pointing out that -POOR- support is better than -NO- support, and treating them as the same AFTER a blanket statement of the former amounts to a goalpost shift.

 

Just because it’s not the support you are after, doesn’t invalidate it AS support ?

 

I mean, don’t get me wrong, it’s not ideal and I don’t like it... but that’s the technicality ?

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5 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

My (joking) statement was more you stated -NO- support, and I am pointing out that -POOR- support is better than -NO- support, and treating them as the same AFTER a blanket statement of the former amounts to a goalpost shift.

 

Just because it’s not the support you are after, doesn’t invalidate it AS support ?

 

I mean, don’t get me wrong, it’s not ideal and I don’t like it... but that’s the technicality ?

Technically correct, the best kind of correct? :)  I concede the point!

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