thespaceinvader 17,568 Posted June 20, 2018 Yup. It stops you doing actions later in the round to avoid making you an unblockable monster when your name is Vader, and to stop you piling Coordinates on after Advanced Sensors. The conversion kit version will be the canonical one, unless I'm very much mistaken. 1 Giledhil reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Giledhil 1,365 Posted June 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said: Yup. It stops you doing actions later in the round to avoid making you an unblockable monster when your name is Vader, and to stop you piling Coordinates on after Advanced Sensors. The conversion kit version will be the canonical one, unless I'm very much mistaken. Also what I understand. I really hope there's something hidden to us that helps those poor B-wings. Like discount on cannon upgrades. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rawbean 202 Posted June 20, 2018 The upgrade cards also use plain white icons instead of text to restrict them to factions. I like that, but assuming the Resistance faction icon matches it's first edition version in just being a colour inverted Rebellion icon that's a problem with differentiating them visually. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ayleron 204 Posted June 20, 2018 3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said: Yup. It stops you doing actions later in the round to avoid making you an unblockable monster when your name is Vader, and to stop you piling Coordinates on after Advanced Sensors. The conversion kit version will be the canonical one, unless I'm very much mistaken. I would disagree on the coordinate part. Another shop is triggering that action for you. Also there are not currently any ships that have a linked coordinate, so that action means the coordinator will be limited to one action. 1 PanchoX1 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thespaceinvader 17,568 Posted June 20, 2018 33 minutes ago, Ayleron said: I would disagree on the coordinate part. Another shop is triggering that action for you. Also there are not currently any ships that have a linked coordinate, so that action means the coordinator will be limited to one action. It prevents a later ship from coordinating its action to you. Avoiding entire lists stacking everything onto a single ship seems to be a really major goal of this edition. 2 Antipodean Ork and JJ48 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PanchoX1 1,288 Posted June 20, 2018 1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said: It prevents a later ship from coordinating its action to you. Avoiding entire lists stacking everything onto a single ship seems to be a really major goal of this edition. I'm not seeing that. if Vader is not activated why wouldn't he be able to be coordinated to?. if you can't perform additional actions while activated, or you have to skip your perform action step (which occurs while activated), they seem pretty similar to me with the exception of the first one keeping you from linked actions or force triggered actions. But I'm not seeing why you couldn't be coordinated too. What am I missing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vineheart01 6,403 Posted June 20, 2018 it doesnt prevent coordination. It only prevents more than 1 action during your activation, which when the keyword "you" always refers to this ship with this card and not the player that means the card is no longer in effect after the ship is done activating. It prevents chained action or free actions during activation. It doesnt even stop future "before engaging" actions since thats after activating. I cant help but feel the reason it changed was BECAUSE of Vader, because he's technically the only one that could completely and utterly abuse it while only those capable of linked actions could minorly abuse it otherwise (for the same reason we use it now, stress-inducing action before green maneuver to clear it. However, Vader can double or even triple action with it before doing a kturn or other red maneuvers, while no chain-action user can do that) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thespaceinvader 17,568 Posted June 20, 2018 'You cannot take any additional actions during this phase.' If someone Coordinates you after you've used AS, the result is that you take an action, but you now cannot, because you used AS. 1 Rexler Brath reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Commander Kaine 2,660 Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said: it doesnt prevent coordination. It only prevents more than 1 action during your activation, which when the keyword "you" always refers to this ship with this card and not the player that means the card is no longer in effect after the ship is done activating. It prevents chained action or free actions during activation. It doesnt even stop future "before engaging" actions since thats after activating. I cant help but feel the reason it changed was BECAUSE of Vader, because he's technically the only one that could completely and utterly abuse it while only those capable of linked actions could minorly abuse it otherwise (for the same reason we use it now, stress-inducing action before green maneuver to clear it. However, Vader can double or even triple action with it before doing a kturn or other red maneuvers, while no chain-action user can do that) Ehh. Gunner Luke is still worse. I don't know why couldn't they just make a Vader that has synergy for once. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vineheart01 6,403 Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) Where are you getting "this phase" from thespaceinvader? I see activation, which is a HUGE difference. Unless we got a THIRD version of this card floating around, because the one in the dualboxes this topic is about is skipping action step like it used to. Edited June 20, 2018 by Vineheart01 2 PanchoX1 and ScummyRebel reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vineheart01 6,403 Posted June 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said: Ehh. Gunner Luke is still worse. I don't know why couldn't they just make a Vader that has synergy for once. i swear im the only person that doesnt see luke gunner as a problem. Its pathetically easy to keep people in a side arc, we know this from the Lancer already. I almost never see it change it off the side arc unless someone is directly tailing it. Not to mention we already know the gunner slot is mean, and luke literally does nothing but provide a pseudo 360 attack in a meta where die mods are harder to come by. I dont expect to never see him, i just dont expect him to be anywhere near the level of broken that is Fenn/Ghost right now or tripboats of old. 5 Roundy1161, Memorare, Herowannabe and 2 others reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boba Rick 4,209 Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) Ninja'ed. Edited June 20, 2018 by Boba Rick Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thespaceinvader 17,568 Posted June 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said: Where are you getting "this phase" from thespaceinvader? I see activation, which is a HUGE difference. Unless we got a THIRD version of this card floating around, because the one in the dualboxes this topic is about is skipping action step like it used to. My failed brain. Cheerfully retracted. 2 HolySorcerer and PanchoX1 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HolySorcerer 4,105 Posted June 20, 2018 Ironically, not only can Vader no longer be a Squad Leader, but he performs much better when he has a leader giving him orders. 3 Cloaker, Infinite_Maelstrom and Rexler Brath reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vineheart01 6,403 Posted June 20, 2018 i more view coordinate as passing information along. Vader may be the one calling the shots but he isnt the one with the buttload of advanced sensors (HA) and raw vision. They relate information to him and he acts accordingly. 1 Rexler Brath reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herowannabe 4,376 Posted June 20, 2018 35 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said: i swear im the only person that doesnt see luke gunner as a problem. Its pathetically easy to keep people in a side arc, we know this from the Lancer already. I almost never see it change it off the side arc unless someone is directly tailing it. Not to mention we already know the gunner slot is mean, and luke literally does nothing but provide a pseudo 360 attack in a meta where die mods are harder to come by. I dont expect to never see him, i just dont expect him to be anywhere near the level of broken that is Fenn/Ghost right now or tripboats of old. You're not the only one, most people are with you. See the post earlier in this thread about the vocal minority that loves to howl at the moon. 3 Vineheart01, ForceM and CaptainJaguarShark reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HolySorcerer 4,105 Posted June 20, 2018 19 minutes ago, Herowannabe said: You're not the only one, most people are with you. See the post earlier in this thread about the vocal minority that loves to howl at the moon. Luke can be a terrible design (he is) and not break the game (he probably won’t). The issue is that he is impossible to balance as designed so he will have to be priced high enough to be a dead card. Dead cards aren’t fun. 4 2 LordBlades, ficklegreendice, ForceM and 3 others reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herowannabe 4,376 Posted June 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said: Luke can be a terrible design (he is) and not break the game (he probably won’t). The issue is that he is impossible to balance as designed so he will have to be priced high enough to be a dead card. Dead cards aren’t fun. Let's not get into it in this thread. There are plenty of other threads for discussing whether or not Gunner!Luke is fine/broken/whatever, this one does not need to become one of them. 2 3 PanchoX1, Frodos, Jarval and 2 others reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vineheart01 6,403 Posted June 20, 2018 Unfortunately thats what FFG does, they'd rather design a horrible card to get the "effect" out there rather than just not have that effect and not waste the name of the card. Ions come to mind. Rather than revamp them to be slightly out of context with the series so they can stop being on the teetering side of the useless edge of the balancing fence and actually make them good. Or Jam for that matter. Imo Adv Sensors would be another such effect if it was indeed limited to the phase. Considering how support ships all either have coordinate or some sort of mini-coordinate (or both) now it would make little sense to design a card that prevents support ships from doing their job. In your own squad anyway. 1 Commander Kaine reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JasonCole 1,024 Posted June 20, 2018 I'm probably missing something, but why are there two copies of deadman's switch (illicit upgrade) in here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icelom 3,405 Posted June 20, 2018 26 minutes ago, JasonCole said: I'm probably missing something, but why are there two copies of deadman's switch (illicit upgrade) in here? Saws ships get illicit slots. 1 JasonCole reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JasonCole 1,024 Posted June 20, 2018 Gotcha, thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piznit 1,705 Posted June 21, 2018 15 hours ago, Handler said: But Caption Rex won't need errata, right? Leave Caption Rex alone! He never hurt anybody! 1 Infinite_Maelstrom reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Larky Bobble 424 Posted June 21, 2018 8 hours ago, Vineheart01 said: Unfortunately thats what FFG does, they'd rather design a horrible card to get the "effect" out there rather than just not have that effect and not waste the name of the card. Ions come to mind. Rather than revamp them to be slightly out of context with the series so they can stop being on the teetering side of the useless edge of the balancing fence and actually make them good. Or Jam for that matter. Imo Adv Sensors would be another such effect if it was indeed limited to the phase. Considering how support ships all either have coordinate or some sort of mini-coordinate (or both) now it would make little sense to design a card that prevents support ships from doing their job. In your own squad anyway. I would imagine it is about trying to keep the game as enjoyable as possible. If Ion were balanced to be competitive it would create a lot of unhappy punters. It is like playing against a stasis deck in MTG; you feel like an idiot for turning up and wasting your time. Therefore it appears to be better that it is underpowered or a relative niche item with many (fun) counters 1 Icelom reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PanchoX1 1,288 Posted June 21, 2018 1 hour ago, piznit said: Leave Caption Rex alone! He never hurt anybody! I just want to know what he said as I didn't hear it. Closed Caption Rex for the hearing impaired. 2 2 Herowannabe, Force Majeure, T70 Driver and 1 other reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites