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Commander Kaine

Whining is annoying, but it solves problems

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OP's post is a grain of truth safely tucked away at the core of a huge pearl of bullsh*t.




Has the game's direction been steered by the critiques of the customers? Likely. Should people who behave consistently obnoxiously be hailed as heroes every time something vaguely in-line with their rantings changes from on high? Absolutely not. Rewarding negative behavior begets more negative behavior. A ****-spiral eternal.




You dont get a medal.willy wonka and the chocolate factory gifYou don't deserve it.




I agree with @Jeff Wilder in that all criticism, valid or no, is lumped in with whining on these forums, and that's not right. Further, though, I blame that on the babies in the various screeching minorities having turned the entire idea of discussing a problem with the game into something so toxic that the knee-jerk response has become to dismiss it out of hand as whining.


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Maybe if people didn't *need* to win and stopped playing utter cancer, the other people would whine less. If you got tired of people complaining about your 100 point miranda or triple wookies,  then maybe you shouldn't have ruined the game for some different colored plastic. Also, semantic arguments are a thousand times worse than any type of whining.

Edited by ThinkingB

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17 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

Maybe if people didn't *need* to win and stopped playing utter cancer, the other people would whine less. If you got tired of people complaining about your 100 point miranda or triple wookies,  then maybe you shouldn't have ruined the game for some different colored plastic. Also, semantic arguments are a thousand times worse than any type of whining.

Yeah! the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning -is- worse than whining. For sure. Especially when there's so much discussion of what whining -means- involved in the conversation.

 

Also blaming people for winning in a competitive game is silly. Why compete if doing well is a bad thing?

 

Edited by Dabirdisdaword

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5 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Is that how you explain why can't you provide a reasonable argument?

No I think he's explaining why he won't engage.

Extra effort to refute bull+not wanting to waste effort engaging bull on the internet = not engaging.

 

Not that I know his mind but that's how it reads to me.

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1 hour ago, E Chu Ta said:


OP's post is a grain of truth safely tucked away at the core of a huge pearl of bullsh*t.

 

 


Has the game's direction been steered by the critiques of the customers? Likely. Should people who behave consistently obnoxiously be hailed as heroes every time something vaguely in-line with their rantings changes from on high? Absolutely not. Rewarding negative behavior begets more negative behavior. A ****-spiral eternal.

 

 

 

 


You dont get a medal.willy wonka and the chocolate factory gifYou don't deserve it.

 

 

 

 


I agree with @Jeff Wilder in that all criticism, valid or no, is lumped in with whining on these forums, and that's not right. Further, though, I blame that on the babies in the various screeching minorities having turned the entire idea of discussing a problem with the game into something so toxic that the knee-jerk response has become to dismiss it out of hand as whining.

 

 

No one needs your medal. No one asked for it. I asked for people to consider that people who raise complaints are a part of the feedback ffg receives. And they won't go away, so the endless posts that complain about them are even greater garbage than they are. 

I also explained why I used the term whine, and I pointed out that any criticism receives the same type of reaction. Not all criticism is the same, but it is often treated as such. 

Furthermore I've noticed that more often than not, these "fix" threads devolve due to the negative posts within it. 

Also, whenever I can, I try to start a reasonable discussion. If you find my (frankly quite obvious) trolling about rebels being toxic... It's an attempt at humor. 

 

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1 hour ago, player44455 said:

The toxic people on this forum (including You) have made this an awful, terrible place, and have  driven most of the veteran players and insightful commentators away.

Don't look for any appreciation here, you will not get it.

Much toxic. Very rude. Such division. So awful. Wow.

 

If only there was someone trying to initiate insightful discussions about the game. 

 

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/274060-everything-that-is-wrong-in-this-game-part-1-turrets/

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/273541-no-new-articles-well-two-can-play-that-game-ffg/

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/274604-give-the-royal-guard-title-the-heavy-scyck-treatment/

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/274383-can-we-please-shut-up-about-card-bloat/

 

 

And you know, here are some of my less positive threads: 

 

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/276958-tie-aggressor-what-is-it-good-for/ - This is worrying about a ship I happen to like. I don't think I went overboard. 

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/276545-what-is-rebel-bias/ - you are welcome to argue with me on this point, but I don't think the thread went overboard either. 

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/275626-ffg-make-wedges-ability-bulls-eye-arc-only/ - I'm still a bit salty about this, and I see no reason for it. 

 

But if you read these posts, I actually talk about how the point costs greatly influence the effectiveness of these ships, and these decisions can be justified with appropriate pricing. 

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Why do people act like there's no Ignore function?  There's exactly one person on these forums that I've ignored, and yes, it was because of incessant whining with effectively zero actual content to his posts.  Just do that.

(FWIW, at this point there are two or three "whiners about whining" that are much closer to my Ignore list than actual whiners/complainers are.  At least with whiners/complainers there's occasionally actual content -- implied or explicit -- to make a judgment about.)

Edited by Jeff Wilder

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I'm pretty sure most of us agree here.

1) Negative feedback has a positive influence on the game.

2) The more specifically reasoned the negative feedback is, the greater the positive impact.

3) The more emotionally-driven and irrational the feedback, the less positive impact (conversely, the greater the negative impact)

4) Sufficient irrational and emotional feedback leads to noise pollution and stifles the reasoned conversation.

5) When a majority of the feedback is irrational, some would rather ignore all of it, including that which is well-reasoned.

@Commander Kaine, I think what people are annoyed by on this thread specifically is that you don't seem to make the distinction of items 2-4, or at least to take it to heart. The original post suggesting that whining is good for the game is a bit of a half-truth, because it doesn't address the problem created by those who don't make their complaints in a well-thought-out manner.

Yes, negative feedback is so important for maintaining the health of the game.

But equally, making sure that feedback is useful information and not just noise pollution is also so important for maintaining the health of the community.

Please acknowledge this?

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25 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I'm pretty sure most of us agree here.

1) Negative feedback has a positive influence on the game.

2) The more specifically reasoned the negative feedback is, the greater the positive impact.

3) The more emotionally-driven and irrational the feedback, the less positive impact (conversely, the greater the negative impact)

4) Sufficient irrational and emotional feedback leads to noise pollution and stifles the reasoned conversation.

5) When a majority of the feedback is irrational, some would rather ignore all of it, including that which is well-reasoned.

@Commander Kaine, I think what people are annoyed by on this thread specifically is that you don't seem to make the distinction of items 2-4, or at least to take it to heart. The original post suggesting that whining is good for the game is a bit of a half-truth, because it doesn't address the problem created by those who don't make their complaints in a well-thought-out manner.

Yes, negative feedback is so important for maintaining the health of the game.

But equally, making sure that feedback is useful information and not just noise pollution is also so important for maintaining the health of the community.

Please acknowledge this?

Yeah, okay. That's reasonable. I understand I might be pushing the word a bit. 

 

However, me not making that distinction was a very much deliberate act, similarly to how others don't make it either. I see why that causes the conversation to boggle down. 

 

I personally don't find a problem with the more annoying type posts, because they are really easy to ignore. I understand not everyone might feel that way. I just think that the complaints about complaining are less helpful. They are negative helpful. You can't find content in them, no matter how hard you try. They are just a circle of negativity. 

The reason I made this post, is because I don't believe we can get rid off the constant complaints and fixes etc, but we can change our attitude towards them. I'm fairly sure that more constructive talks will emerge, if people take the initiative to add value to these threads. 

 

But, overall, I agree. Not all complaints are constructive. Some are annoying. (as I've made clear in the OP). 

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12 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Yeah, okay. That's reasonable. I understand I might be pushing the word a bit. 

 

However, me not making that distinction was a very much deliberate act, similarly to how others don't make it either. I see why that causes the conversation to boggle down. 

 

I personally don't find a problem with the more annoying type posts, because they are really easy to ignore. I understand not everyone might feel that way. I just think that the complaints about complaining are less helpful. They are negative helpful. You can't find content in them, no matter how hard you try. They are just a circle of negativity. 

The reason I made this post, is because I don't believe we can get rid off the constant complaints and fixes etc, but we can change our attitude towards them. I'm fairly sure that more constructive talks will emerge, if people take the initiative to add value to these threads. 

 

But, overall, I agree. Not all complaints are constructive. Some are annoying. (as I've made clear in the OP). 

Thank you. I think this is really all we were wanting from this thread. :)

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29 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

But, overall, I agree. Not all complaints are constructive. Some are annoying. (as I've made clear in the OP). 

So will we all agree that this topic is toxic, full of disrespect and help no one? Please behave and close the subject.

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1 minute ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Thank you. I think this is really all we were wanting from this thread. :)

I'm not the one being unreasonable here. I came here to spread some positive vibes in the forums, by showing the silver linings of something. 

What I got was personal attacks, unfounded accusations and frankly just ridiculous arguments ignoring most things I've said. 

6 minutes ago, player2422845 said:

So will we all agree that this topic is toxic, full of disrespect and help no one? Please behave and close the subject.

I agree, but I am not the one disrespecting people. 

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5 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

I agree, but I am not the one disrespecting people.  

This is true, but this is not the point.

Sorry but you started this, you know very well lots of user customs and how to trigger reactions. I am sure you want to be constructive but the last month of constant rage about every aspect of a GAME made people not open to this kind of thread.

But You are not wrong, mostly, sometimes.

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52 minutes ago, piznit said:

[biggest crap ever]

Thank you, this is a perfect example :D

You can post a simple gif, heavily implying but not explicitly saying that this "Brandolini's law" is the biggest crap ever. This leaves you enough room to wiggle out of whatever I'm could be saying now because you did not actually make an argument in any form but just posted figurative bull****.

Because of this lack of actual content I would have to cover several angles if we would try to have a discussion about something. From the legitimacy of the word "law" (akin to Poe's law and Godwin's law), to the discussion about Brandolini being the first describing it (he wasn't, just his name caught on), to the differences and similarities of this statement to older sayings  (Charles Spurgeon's a "lie will go round the world while truth is pulling its boots on" from 1859, or the Romanian saying "A madman throws a stone into the water and ten wise men have trouble taking it out.").

This would end with me saying a lot more and require much more research on my part, the figurative order of magnitude more, to reply to an actual pile of crap.

Edit: as it has been removed: it was a gif from Southpark where one of the dads apparently takes the "biggest crap ever"

Edited by GreenDragoon

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31 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Thank you, this is a perfect example :D

 

Ha!  It got removed, but I was really just adding some humor.  I totally agree it much tougher to refute garbage, much in the same way it was tougher for Ol' Randy to top the previous record of 8 Courics 

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1 hour ago, Commander Kaine said:

I'm not the one being unreasonable here. I came here to spread some positive vibes in the forums, by showing the silver linings of something. 

What I got was personal attacks, unfounded accusations and frankly just ridiculous arguments ignoring most things I've said. 

I agree, but I am not the one disrespecting people. 

You're a pimple on the bum if this place.  Do everyone a favour and turn off the internet for a couple of days, give yourself a break.

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24 minutes ago, SOTL said:

You're a pimple on the bum if this place.  Do everyone a favour and turn off the internet for a couple of days, give yourself a break.

I'm not concerned with your opinion. You can find the ignore button, I'm sure of it. 

 

I never personally attacked or insulted you. I don't know what you think you are here, but if insulting me for voicing my opinion makes you feel whole, maybe you are an...

Image result for I hate you anakin

 

But hey, at least we are close to each other. 

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8 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

I asked for people to consider that people who raise complaints are a part of the feedback ffg receives.

But what you stated was;

Whining is annoying, but it solves problems

Yes, you've tried to clarify since, but the whole premise the 'whining serves a purpose' is what most people would be arguing against. 

On 6/19/2018 at 7:51 AM, Commander Kaine said:

2, Whining is a stylistic difference still, and it does not mean the complaint is not valid. You can say it does, but it doesn't. The difference between complaining and whining does not carry with itself a judgment about the content. It might be more emotional, or less compelling, and you might decide to ignore for those reasons, but it DOES NOT MEAN IT'S NOT VALID. 

Valid or not, if it is ignored because the method of delivery has caused people to dismiss or disregard it, it just makes it harder for people who have tried to constructively give feedback; as Jeff points out, it gets lumped in with the amount of whinging that preceded it.

 

Valid or not, if it's ignored it has served no purpose.

 

Image result for star wars whine gif

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