If I Enjoy the Narrative Dice System, Will I Enjoy This?

[Redwense 6]

Though I'm not well-versed when it comes to L5R lore, the few 4e sessions I played in--as well as the short stint of D&D Oriental Adventures when it was based on Rokugan--made me fall in love with the setting. I did not, however, enjoy the system very much.

The Narrative Dice System (NDS--the core mechanic of FFG's Star Wars and Genesys) is my current favorite TRPG system. I've read that this new version of L5R is supposed to be a mix of the NDS with elements of 4e. (I'm hoping for more NDS.)

For those who have extensively played the beta, do you think FFG's take on L5R will resonate with fans of the NDS and support the growth of a robust TRPG line for years to come? Seeing how far the NDS has come from Star Wars: Edge of the Empire to Genesys and Realms of Terrinoth is quite impressive, and I hope the same can be said for L5R's new system.

TL;DR: If I love the mechanics of FFG's Star Wars/Genesys, will I love L5R, assuming I'm already sold on the setting?

Edited June 18, 2018 by Redwense

[DGLaderoute 897]

Gazing into the proverbial crystal ball here, but I think we'll find that the new version of the L5R RPG will attract a devoted following and thrive. Part of this will be because, for players new to the game, it's the only RPG product that's going to be marketed for the setting, and given splashy coverage at things like Gencon; it's also the only RPG product for L5R that will be readily available on the shelves of game stores. Moreover, the NDS, as you call it, has already become established as an accepted "thing" in the RPG industry, so it has become pretty well-known and is much less the "new weirdness" it once was.

That said, a lot of existing players will probably stick with previous versions of the game--especially 4th Edition. This is what they know, they've already invested substantial amounts of money in the books, and are likely involved in ongoing campaigns with existing, beloved characters. This is entirely cool. 4ed was a great system (I wrote a bunch of the stuff that appears in the various books, so I have a "sweat" investment in it!) and I've played a ton of it. It wasn't perfect by any means, but it did a great job of portraying Rokugan; moreover, I think the R&K system developed for L5R is, mechanically, one of the best RPG systems ever developed.

Now, there will inevitably be some players who don't like the new game and will take to the net to complain about it and to try to convince everyone else it's awful. That happens any time anything changes. Just ignore them. They're entitled to their opinions, of course, but they're missing a fundamental point--if FFG wanted to develop an RPG for L5R at all, it pretty much HAD to be significantly different from what's gone before, or what's the point? There'd be almost no money in just developing new supplements for 4ed to accommodate the changes in the story, and FFG is, like all other companies, in the business of making money. There's potentially much more money to be made in building, launching and supporting a new system--which, incidentally, doesn't "undo" previous editions of the game (it's not like all of those 4ed books on people's shelves will suddenly become blank pages). People are free to continue playing older versions because that's what they like, or jumping into the new system, as they see fit. In general, choice is good!

As an aside, the new system does indeed blend the NDS with the R&D system. You assemble a dice pool based on the Skill and Ring being used, roll those dice, then keep a certain number of them while discarding the rest; only the kept dice are used to determine the result. However, the dice being used are d6's and d12's of the "Narrative" type, that use symbols to reflect different types of possible results and effects. So it really is a hybrid of the two, which allows players to experience (or continue experiencing) the cool mechanic that is R&K, while also using the Narrative dice that have become pretty much a standard for FFG systems.

[AtoMaki 1,431]

As someone who played the Beta extensively and brainstormed with his friends a lot over the dice system, I can tell you that it is more like an overhaul of the classic R&K system rather than something you can call an NDS. Essentially, they put Raises on the dice instead of having it as part of the pre-roll setup, and some Successes/Raises are worse than others (because they come with Strife). It is a lot like playing 4th Edition with everyone having the Akodo Bushi Rank 5 Technique, so players can Raise without much actual risk. 

Personally, I don't think that you would like it. The biggest problem is that while risk-free Raises do sound fun, the supporting game mechanics are kinda shaky in a way that you run into unexpected restrictions all the time (mostly around being unable to keep those pesky Raises). It ain't exactly the carefree play NDSs are known for. 

[DGLaderoute 897]

My recommendation for anyone interested in it is to either try the Beta, or check out the Beginner Box when it releases. The advantage of the Beginner Box is that it also provides a lot of information on the setting in a way that's relatively easy to absorb quickly (because, honestly, more than mechanics, in my experience it's the complexity of the setting that tends to put people off). People giving you their opinions on a website is just that--opinions on a website. They are obviously really subjective and are probably going to span the range from "It's awesome!" to "It sucks!", which isn't very useful. The BEST way to determine if you'll like it is to ready and, ideally, play it yourself.

[tenchi2a 442]

I would recommend trying out the Beta as the Beginner Box is way over priced for what you get.

If you find that you like the game, then when the Corebook releases you can pick it up.

Corebook: $50

Dice: $13 or $5 for the App.

Beginner Box: $40

Edited June 18, 2018 by tenchi2a

[sndwurks 1,257]

@Redwense - If you love the setting of L5R, and you enjoy the Risk / Reward mechanic of the Narrative Dice System, then I highly suspect you will at least enjoy the base game of the new L5R RPG. Your mileage may vary with the "advancement" mechanic.

The main thing to understand about the new L5R RPG is its Strife mechanic. Rather than having a variant difficulty based upon "Bad" dice, you have Strife icons usually paired with Success and Opportunity icons on your dice. Successes let you succeed, Opportunities give you cool things, just like in the NDS. However, Strife is basically a "heat" system, similar to Mechwarrior or an MMORPG. The more Strife icons you keep to get access to those sweet, sweet Successes and Opportunities, the more Strife you build up. Accumulate too much Strife, and you become Compromised. You basically "shut down", and cannot keep dice with Strife icons on it until you cool down.

[Lindhrive 51]

Though high Strife isn't always bad! Crabs and Scorpions and even some Cranes will be intrigued by some of the opportunities Strife-overflow presents. It also plays into spellcasting in some very cool and innovative ways, and the Lion use it as a reagent when they're crafting ghosts and corpses.

[sndwurks 1,257]

1 hour ago, Lindhrive said:

Though high Strife isn't always bad! Crabs and Scorpions and even some Cranes will be intrigued by some of the opportunities Strife-overflow presents. It also plays into spellcasting in some very cool and innovative ways, and the Lion use it as a reagent when they're crafting ghosts and corpses.

Gaining Strife is a mechanically strategic choice. You have to manage your resources effectively, because if you become Compromised at the wrong time, you will die. Or worse.

Being Compromised limits you from being able to Keep dice with Strife icons on them. This significantly lowers the number of sides on a dice with Success (from 3/6 to 1/6 on a Ring, and 8/12 to 4/12 on Skill). Unless being Compromised gives you a benefit, it is a punishment which can literally kill your character, since you have to roll dice to soak Critical Hits.

It winds up being a strategic choice. How do you choose to gain your Strife? Do you drop in to Fire Stance (which is worthless while Compromised) to get the extra Successes? Do you let your magic get out of control? Do you use your Strife to hope to dump it on your opponents through various School Techniques?

[DanGers 55]

When I ran the beta the players who liked role playing and the players who like roll playing both liked the dice mechanic.  When I surveyed them later, most listed it as one of their favorite parts of the game.   If you're already sold on the idea of narrative dice, then I bet you'll like this. 

My players were a mix of new and veteran RPG players, some of whom were into the mechanics of games and some that I'll call  "the drama club".  The mechanically minded players liked figuring out how to manage/channel strife, how to make the best use of opportunity based special abilities, and trying to figure out the best stance for the battle ahead.   For them, the dice gave  supply of symbols/resources to be managed optimally to make cool stuff happen.  The drama club liked being prompted to add to the story and describing how their character attempted something instead of just what they attempted.  Sometimes it was a little silly ("I pour the tea... aggressively!"), but there were moments like when a swordsman used the position of the sun to get an advantage in a duel, or a commander observed something special about the terrain and used that knowledge the next time their unit charged forth in battle.  One highlight was when our Isawa elementalist  lost control during the end of a long battle and burned all the bad guys in a barely contained fire-storm.  The character was almost strifed-out, but happened to roll extra opportunities.   That allowed the player to perform a cool mechanical feat that also gave her a chance to add some fun narration.  It was all mechanically sound and dice driven, but we layered a bit a drama on top of it to make it memorable.

There were a few other strengths of the system I noticed.  Everyone at the table liked not having to do so much math, especially the veteran RPG players.  Letting players add story elements to the scene made my DM job a lot easier.  My players seemed a bit too worried about gaining strife, however, but I suspect that once a player learns that being compromised and out-bursting aren't that bad, that fear would be mitigated.

[AK_Aramis 1,002]

On 6/18/2018 at 1:29 AM, Redwense said:

TL;DR: If I love the mechanics of FFG's Star Wars/Genesys, will I love L5R, assuming I'm already sold on the setting?

It's a hybrid of the old system and the NDS...

It's NDS with no bad dice, but bad rolls on all dice possible.

So, yes, it's likely you will like it... unless you were a fan of the Red Die and the Despair.