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A way to save starwars!

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Ah beat me too it.:ph34r:

Some will blame TLJ, but IMHO this movie failed on its own merits.

Honestly I would like the frequency to be tone down to maybe bi-annually instead of annually. Seriously who ever though the Madden/Call-of-Duty publishing model would work for a movie franchise? It barely works for video games.

What I would like to see after Episode 9. A complete 18 year plan to redo all episodes I-IX you can even change the themes a little bit. Episodes I-II would be more like GoT with political intrigue and tragic betrayal that leads up to the Empire, Episodes IV-VI will be the classic Good Vs Evil (Empire) light and dark goodness. Episodes VII-IX will be sort of a James Bond vs Galactic Terrorist type deal.

Edited by Marinealver

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8 hours ago, Marinealver said:

What I would like to see after Episode 9. A complete 18 year plan to redo all episodes I-IX you can even change the themes a little bit. Episodes I-II would be more like GoT with political intrigue and tragic betrayal that leads up to the Empire, Episodes IV-VI will be the classic Good Vs Evil (Empire) light and dark goodness. Episodes VII-IX will be sort of a James Bond vs Galactic Terrorist type deal.

Oh god no! The last thing we need them to do is to redo the other films. Just look at Hollywood's past work with reboots of franchises, especially ones that were cases of lightning in a bottle. Ghostbusters, failure. Alien Prequel films, failure. Robocop, failure. Nightmare on Elm Street, failure. The list just goes on and on, and add on top of all that Lucasfilm's issue with hiring, and firing directors and the troubles they've been facing behind the scenes and their treatment of the fans who criticize some of their choices. And furthermore add in the fact that it would split the fans, those who would take offense at Disney/Lucasfilm trying to 'rewrite' the films for a new audience, or those working hard to keep up with the books and new EU material only for it to get rebooted in a couple years. Then you have the casual audience who would likely look at it as a reboot and feel the stories were already done which could end up leading to a audience turn out similar to Solo or worse.  

The only good reboot of a franchise I've really seen is the modern Planet of the Ape series and that isn't just remaking the original films but exploring that world and bringing compelling stories and performances to the screen. Star Wars should do the same, explore characters and a new setting that the fans new and old can try to latch onto be that set in the past ala KOTOR or something set in a future era like the Legacy series. 

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5 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

Oh god no! The last thing we need them to do is to redo the other films. Just look at Hollywood's past work with reboots of franchises, especially ones that were cases of lightning in a bottle. Ghostbusters, failure. Alien Prequel films, failure. Robocop, failure. Nightmare on Elm Street, failure. The list just goes on and on, and add on top of all that Lucasfilm's issue with hiring, and firing directors and the troubles they've been facing behind the scenes and their treatment of the fans who criticize some of their choices. And furthermore add in the fact that it would split the fans, those who would take offense at Disney/Lucasfilm trying to 'rewrite' the films for a new audience, or those working hard to keep up with the books and new EU material only for it to get rebooted in a couple years. Then you have the casual audience who would likely look at it as a reboot and feel the stories were already done which could end up leading to a audience turn out similar to Solo or worse.  

The only good reboot of a franchise I've really seen is the modern Planet of the Ape series and that isn't just remaking the original films but exploring that world and bringing compelling stories and performances to the screen. Star Wars should do the same, explore characters and a new setting that the fans new and old can try to latch onto be that set in the past ala KOTOR or something set in a future era like the Legacy series. 

I agree, nothing is going to beat the original. But taking a look at what we got right now and what we are likely to get in the future I don't see how we could expect anything better than a reboot. Heck The Farce Awakens was very much a reboot of the first Star Wars movie. So we either get a complete retelling separating the universe further from current cannon. or we get a remake starting back from episode 1 and continuing onto 9.

1501310.jpg

So pros and cons of a restructuring a story. You already have the art assets, so no need to reinvent the wheel. You are not tied down by cannon so you can bring back decided characters like Maul or Mace Windu.

Cons, it could be so separated from the original no one will recognize it as a Star Wars product.

Star Wars - The Force Awakens [A New Hope]

Reboot, pros you can keep the cast going on so not breakign continuity. Don't get me wrong Mc.Gregor does a good job but Ewin is no Alec Gueness. And the upcoming Obi Wan movie that we are going to see won't look anything like the Obi-Wan from the very first film. Another pros you can adjust the story but keep the settings. Replace Jar Jar and improve the prequels. Just throw away Episode 7 which was unnecessary and put in elements of the new cast in Episode 6. For the most part Episodes 4, 5, and 6 you can copy but if you want to make changes you can do so there. Remake Episode 7 with the new cast. Put more of a War on Terror theme and all the problems that comes with it fighting both against Imperial sympathisers and Alliance extremists. then wrap it up in episode 9.

Cons, it still will not be Star Wars, risk of being long and drawn out. The big reveal at Episode 5 will be revealed at episode 3.

Edited by Marinealver

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8 hours ago, Marinealver said:

I agree, nothing is going to beat the original. But taking a look at what we got right now and what we are likely to get in the future I don't see how we could expect anything better than a reboot. Heck The Farce Awakens was very much a reboot of the first Star Wars movie. So we either get a complete retelling separating the universe further from current cannon. or we get a remake starting back from episode 1 and continuing onto 9.

So pros and cons of a restructuring a story. You already have the art assets, so no need to reinvent the wheel. You are not tied down by cannon so you can bring back decided characters like Maul or Mace Windu.

Cons, it could be so separated from the original no one will recognize it as a Star Wars product.

Reboot, pros you can keep the cast going on so not breakign continuity. Don't get me wrong Mc.Gregor does a good job but Ewin is no Alec Gueness. And the upcoming Obi Wan movie that we are going to see won't look anything like the Obi-Wan from the very first film. Another pros you can adjust the story but keep the settings. Replace Jar Jar and improve the prequels. Just throw away Episode 7 which was unnecessary and put in elements of the new cast in Episode 6. For the most part Episodes 4, 5, and 6 you can copy but if you want to make changes you can do so there. Remake Episode 7 with the new cast. Put more of a War on Terror theme and all the problems that comes with it fighting both against Imperial sympathisers and Alliance extremists. then wrap it up in episode 9.

Cons, it still will not be Star Wars, risk of being long and drawn out. The big reveal at Episode 5 will be revealed at episode 3.

I will go ahead and say I hate TLJ, and TFA doesn't hold up well due to it and that I heavily despise what they've done with the OT cast and nullified their accomplishments to return the franchise to a empire vs rebellion setting. And, have non-overt nods and themes of the war on terror would have actually probably helped resonate the new films with audiences likely, with the First Order not somehow being an uber powerful force that was either ignored for the sake of plot.

All that said though, TFA was a soft-reboot it was returning us to a setting but didn't completely wipe away what came before it. And doing a reboot now or in the near future would only serve to show that the studio has no confidence in its product, risk alienating its fanbase even more, and retread material that the general audience has already seen. Like I said, the future is to show new stuff, create new stories and give us characters that we can latch onto. The Star Wars galaxy is a big place and the Saga films are all about the Skywalker family. Heck, they could even set it during the same time as other films but show it from a different perspective without the need for the older characters. Of course I would still prefer them just jumping the timeline ahead or to the past so they had the creative freedom to set the universe as they liked and could tell the stories they want. And guess what, if those films end up as trash and you hate them, they are so removed from the Saga films that you can ignore them since they only have lasting effects with stuff set in that era rather than with the modern mythical characters we all came to love. Which again, is one of my main reasons for disliking the new films.

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1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:

I will go ahead and say I hate TLJ, and TFA doesn't hold up well due to it and that I heavily despise what they've done with the OT cast and nullified their accomplishments to return the franchise to a empire vs rebellion setting. And, have non-overt nods and themes of the war on terror would have actually probably helped resonate the new films with audiences likely, with the First Order not somehow being an uber powerful force that was either ignored for the sake of plot.

All that said though, TFA was a soft-reboot it was returning us to a setting but didn't completely wipe away what came before it. And doing a reboot now or in the near future would only serve to show that the studio has no confidence in its product, risk alienating its fanbase even more, and retread material that the general audience has already seen. Like I said, the future is to show new stuff, create new stories and give us characters that we can latch onto. The Star Wars galaxy is a big place and the Saga films are all about the Skywalker family. Heck, they could even set it during the same time as other films but show it from a different perspective without the need for the older characters. Of course I would still prefer them just jumping the timeline ahead or to the past so they had the creative freedom to set the universe as they liked and could tell the stories they want. And guess what, if those films end up as trash and you hate them, they are so removed from the Saga films that you can ignore them since they only have lasting effects with stuff set in that era rather than with the modern mythical characters we all came to love. Which again, is one of my main reasons for disliking the new films.

Star Wars is big but it is all filled up. You can say it is too crowded to do anything else with it.

I see were you are going, I don't care much for Star Trek Discovery (probably because it follows the JJ way of eschewing compelling dialogue for flashy action) so yeah there is a big risk in taking the whole franchise and just doing a complete reboot instead of the sub-cannon overhaul that Jar Jar Abrams did. You are right Disney is not know for taking any risks and I personally think they don't have the talent or connections to such creativity to pull it off. We have gone way beyond Peak Star Wars here, we either need to let it die, or just start all over from episode I.

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3 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Star Wars is big but it is all filled up. You can say it is too crowded to do anything else with it.

I see were you are going, I don't care much for Star Trek Discovery (probably because it follows the JJ way of eschewing compelling dialogue for flashy action) so yeah there is a big risk in taking the whole franchise and just doing a complete reboot instead of the sub-cannon overhaul that Jar Jar Abrams did. You are right Disney is not know for taking any risks and I personally think they don't have the talent or connections to such creativity to pull it off. We have gone way beyond Peak Star Wars here, we either need to let it die, or just start all over from episode I.

Star Wars isn't all filled up, at present it comprises solely the films, Clone Wars, Rebels, and current media projects, a span of 100 or so years in a galaxy that spans thousands. And the majority of those works are centered around the OT era, we have crap all for that 30 year gap between the OT and ST. And so far the ST, as crap as it is, has taken place only over the course of a few days to a week. There is tons to explore there, maybe they can even try to make the characters compelling. They can set a film series decades or centuries before or after the PT, OT, or ST and be able to tell any kind of story they want to. Heck, despite how the ST wants to shrink the galaxy based off of their portrayal of it there is an entire galaxy to explore.

Star Trek Discovery is troubled for tons of reasons, it forcing itself to be a prequel, being a main character based show rather than an ensemble one, having the main character connected to Spock without her ever being mentioned beforehand, drastically changing the Klingons, and somehow setting it in the Prime Timeline despite looking nothing like a Prime Timeline ship, or even having similar uniforms with the season finale and second season having the original Enterprise in it. They should have treated it as a sequel or further explored the Kelvin timeline rather than trying to just bank on Kirk and Spock related stuff/era. Not to mention the issues with using technology that they shouldn't have for a century or more. 

What Star Wars needs is talented people behind the scenes who can tell stories that fit in that universe, and an overall game plan moving forward. They need a Kevin Feige type that can direct the franchise well and keep their writers/actors/etc in line so that they can avoid all of the controversies and bad press that generally devolves into calling the fans sexist/racist/'enter other ist here'. 

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2 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

...

What Star Wars needs is talented people behind the scenes who can tell stories that fit in that universe, and an overall game plan moving forward. They need a Kevin Feige type that can direct the franchise well and keep their writers/actors/etc in line so that they can avoid all of the controversies and bad press that generally devolves into calling the fans sexist/racist/'enter other ist here'. 

Talent needs time though, and to be honest an annual release schedule doesn't allow for that. Sure people placing in their political agendas does about as much good for $tar War$ movies now as much as it did for Revenge of the Sith but you can't say there isn't a business decision behind such "bait". Everything down with $tar War$ is a business decision, and story, character, and the universe and franchise in general just suffers from it.

Anyways $tar War$ need a lot of help but Di$ney is just going to milk it for money before they set it aside for Marvel. I am hoping there is a cool off period after 9 but with all the **** media hype, doesn't seem like that is going to happen. Disney will tell us if we want to help give them money to $ave $tar War$, and all the good and progress it is bringing to the world. We all know that well the direction they are taking it is not good but we will still keep it going even after Disney abandons it. We still have the Decipher Players Committee and wookiepedia which is separate from Disney. 

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12 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Talent needs time though, and to be honest an annual release schedule doesn't allow for that. Sure people placing in their political agendas does about as much good for $tar War$ movies now as much as it did for Revenge of the Sith but you can't say there isn't a business decision behind such "bait". Everything down with $tar War$ is a business decision, and story, character, and the universe and franchise in general just suffers from it.

Anyways $tar War$ need a lot of help but Di$ney is just going to milk it for money before they set it aside for Marvel. I am hoping there is a cool off period after 9 but with all the **** media hype, doesn't seem like that is going to happen. Disney will tell us if we want to help give them money to $ave $tar War$, and all the good and progress it is bringing to the world. We all know that well the direction they are taking it is not good but we will still keep it going even after Disney abandons it. We still have the Decipher Players Committee and wookiepedia which is separate from Disney. 

Moving away from a yearly release would likely be for the best, Star Wars has always been treated like an event film and based off the turnout for them they should be. It isn't Marvel and shouldn't be treated like it, at present it just isn't as diversified as Marvel is with its content and unless they start to do that and can gain audience goodwill to encourage people to see whatever they put out then they shouldn't try to emulate Marvel. 

Disney will want to get their money out of Star Wars but at the same time, we as the audience have the choice to support what they release or not. The only film we know that production is going forward with at the moment is Episode 9. If it were to do bad at the box office, or noticeably have a greater drop off from TFA to TLJ then there is the chance they might try to move away from these yearly releases though the third standalone film will likely be in production by that point possibly making it the last film before they decide to change hears. 

As for the bait it doesn't really help beside get social brownie points that they can flash around even when such content doesn't even make it in the film directly, I'm looking at you Pansexual remarks about Lando. They lead to controversy and the people who might end up liking it are usually not the loyal fanbase that Star Wars has built up, meaning that they will either not go see the film or will at most see it once. 

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D**N IT DISNEY.  YOU HAD ONE JOB.

One chance to tell a proper passing-of-the-torch story from the Original Trilogy cast.  One chance to take the Star Wars timeline into the future in a meaningful way.

And you blew it.

The sequels were a box office smash, sure.  But with people waiting for 35 years to see Solo, Leia and Luke again, they were ALWAYS going to be a box office smash.  What would determine the future of the franchise though would be how you set the scene; how you handled the transition, how you added to the story.

And the sad reality is, you didn't.

The Force Awakens was essentially a blow-by-blow rehash of A New Hope.  JJ Abrams played it safe, and delivered a comfortable, nostalgic film rather than an epic, fresh, forward-thinking one.  Then along came Ruin Johnson, who simply threw whatever was left in the trash.

It was a rush job.  A hatchet job.  This from the company that took it's time building to greatness with the Marvel Cinematic Universe - the difference is in planning is literally astonishing.

The opportunity is now gone  We're never going see a number of the Original Trilogy cast as characters on screen again.  Cameos, at best.  The torch hasn't been passed, it's been dropped, and it's slowly flickering out.

The last chance  for the Star Wars franchise now is a complete reboot.  Lean in to films like Rogue One, Solo and other potential spin offs like Obi Wan and Boba Fett.  And once the lead characters have all been reintroduced with new actors, give us A NEW Hope.  Because it's the only one we've got left.

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16 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

One chance to tell a proper passing-of-the-torch story from the Original Trilogy cast

The story even has a torch they can pass. But they passed it over a shoulder and right off a cliff. 

What would be safer than having this big freaking battle and Luke stumbles or goes down or is getting overwhelmed and he throws the saber to Rey and she goes to town and saves the day. Rip it off right from the pages of "The Hollow Hills." 

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On 6/17/2018 at 3:57 PM, Animewarsdude said:

What Star Wars needs is talented people behind the scenes who can tell stories that fit in that universe, and an overall game plan moving forward. They need a Kevin Feige type that can direct the franchise well and keep their writers/actors/etc in line so that they can avoid all of the controversies and bad press that generally devolves into calling the fans sexist/racist/'enter other ist here'. 

I agree, they need a more cohesive vision for the longevity of this renewed franchise, I don't agree that calling racist/sexist/whateverist fans racist/sexist/whateverists is controversial or bad press.

Many people didn't like the new movies. Some of those people have expressed their displeasure in racist, sexist, and whatever else ways. I don't see why calling a spade a spade is perceived as bad press. 

They're not saying all star wars fans are spades, that should be immediately obvious. But there's nothing wrong with what they said. 

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43 minutes ago, Sekac said:

I agree, they need a more cohesive vision for the longevity of this renewed franchise, I don't agree that calling racist/sexist/whateverist fans racist/sexist/whateverists is controversial or bad press.

Many people didn't like the new movies. Some of those people have expressed their displeasure in racist, sexist, and whatever else ways. I don't see why calling a spade a spade is perceived as bad press. 

They're not saying all star wars fans are spades, that should be immediately obvious. But there's nothing wrong with what they said. 

I've been critical of TLJ especially and have had some people be less than polite about me having my opinion. It doesn't help that we get examples like JJ throwing out that Star Wars fans are threatened by women and the like. It just reeks of the same excuses that have been used like with the Ghostbusters reboot, with insulting the fans and men especially for the film's failure at the box office. That isn't to say that there are people out there who are being vitriolic or being outwardly rude and harassing actors over the film, and that is not excusable behavior; however, instead of denoting 'some' fans they generally just use the term 'fans' which has the negative association of saying 'all' fans. It might not be what they mean, but it pushes people who were against them further away using that as evidence while others who might have been less negative take it as a slap in the face. It does little for goodwill, but we will see how it plays out with Episode 9 and future films. I'll hold out hope for the series but as it is I'm less inclined to rush out and see it opening weekend of in theaters

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I've got it!  We just need to use Episode IX to bring it all together!

(Two hours into Episode IX, General Hux's forces are decimating the Resistance.  Poe and Finn are captured, and most of the other heroes are dead.  Rey faces Kylo as the planet they're on burns around them.)

Kylo:  It's all ending, but we can rebuild it.  We can make things the way they SHOULD be!

Rey:  I'll never join you!  Master Skywalker-

Kylo:  Skywalker is dead!  If you won't join me, then join him!

(Kylo lunges at Rey and they lock lightsabers.  Their shouts and the cries of their allies get more and more distant as the scene dissolves to a figure thrashing about on a bed.  He sits up and throws off the blankets, revealing a young Luke Skywalker in a hut on Tatooine.)

Luke:  Uncle Owen?  Aunt Beru!  You guys won't believe the dream I just had!

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12 hours ago, JJ48 said:

I've got it!  We just need to use Episode IX to bring it all together!

(Two hours into Episode IX, General Hux's forces are decimating the Resistance.  Poe and Finn are captured, and most of the other heroes are dead.  Rey faces Kylo as the planet they're on burns around them.)

Kylo:  It's all ending, but we can rebuild it.  We can make things the way they SHOULD be!

Rey:  I'll never join you!  Master Skywalker-

Kylo:  Skywalker is dead!  If you won't join me, then join him!

(Kylo lunges at Rey and they lock lightsabers.  Their shouts and the cries of their allies get more and more distant as the scene dissolves to a figure thrashing about on a bed.  He sits up and throws off the blankets, revealing a young Luke Skywalker in a hut on Tatooine.)

Luke:  Uncle Owen?  Aunt Beru!  You guys won't believe the dream I just had!

Better: Mara Jade Skywalker awakens in a cold sweat, in a scene set after the Union graphic novel, revealing to Luke that the Prequels, everything written by Kevin J. Anderson, the entire Del Rey-era EU (NJO, Legacy of the Force, etc.) AND the Nucanon were a nightmare. Vision of the Future is therefore the one and only canon ending of the Star Wars Universe.

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