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Drakoniss

Wow I knew it was amazing when I saw it but my mouth is now on the ground.

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Quick random list of things spined threshers did in the last few games with scuttle. They where already amazing and then.

1. Caused to side step a incoming charge 
2 Caused me to line up an impossible charge
3. Turn a front charge into a flank charge
4.pulled out of shooting arc
5. Charge 360 degrees out of terrain almost range 4
6. Caused me to move 360 out of terrain almost range 5.
7 caused me to shift sideways into combat
8. Caused me to shift sideways out of combat.
9. The stun
10 slide one sideways reform the forward one is amazing.
11. Engages to the side on initiative 0 and still dial 
attack and attack 
modification.

I think I can’t list at least 6 more.

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So File Leader on Reanimates is even more important. It's a shame because Executioner is so good against Spined Threshers, but it's pointless in other matchups...like against Leonx Riders.

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1 minute ago, Parakitor said:

So File Leader on Reanimates is even more important. It's a shame because Executioner is so good against Spined Threshers, but it's pointless in other matchups...like against Leonx Riders.

I've been thinking about it, and considering the Uthuk... thing, I think Executioner probably has a place in every Waiqar list:

  • Daqan loves their Heroes, and especially Hawthorne would sure hate to explode suddenly (also Rune Golems, but those are not exactly rampant)
  • Waiqar loves Carrion Lancers
  • Latari has plenty of reason to field their Heroes and Scions
  • Uthuk has multiple wounds on everything except Berserkers

So although the Executioner won't do anything against many targets, it is at minimum helping to control the board. One of my favourite plays with Kari is to flank a unit of Reanimates and use it as a lightning rod to destroy other units, but I wouldn't dare do so with an Executioner in the mix.

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1 minute ago, Bhelliom said:

I've been thinking about it, and considering the Uthuk... thing, I think Executioner probably has a place in every Waiqar list:

  • Daqan loves their Heroes, and especially Hawthorne would sure hate to explode suddenly (also Rune Golems, but those are not exactly rampant)
  • Waiqar loves Carrion Lancers
  • Latari has plenty of reason to field their Heroes and Scions
  • Uthuk has multiple wounds on everything except Berserkers

So although the Executioner won't do anything against many targets, it is at minimum helping to control the board. One of my favourite plays with Kari is to flank a unit of Reanimates and use it as a lightning rod to destroy other units, but I wouldn't dare do so with an Executioner in the mix.

That's a good point, and I go back and forth about it. Especially your last comment about Kari. She'll just take a round to snipe out the Executioner before pulling that trick. But hey, a round to delay her isn't bad either. The hardest part about Executioner is that the Reanimates don't have the movement to choose their engagement, so you could simply get out-deployed or outmaneuvered, and face down opposing infantry that don't care about Executioner. So then it comes back to the opportunity cost - do you have more unit-unit matchups that favor Executioner, or that favor File Leader?

Coming back to the thought of delaying, File Leader has the added benefit of causing units to march into you and take a panic, rather than risk getting hit in the face first when they charge. That delay helps Waiqar, I think. If you have a Dispatch Runner in the list to activate late and hit those non-charging units anyway, you can get some more mileage.

I think I'm facing the truth that I just don't play enough games to have a good grasp on the answers. Hopefully that changes in the next couple months when we establish a Runewars Game Night at our FLGS.

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7 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

That's a good point, and I go back and forth about it. Especially your last comment about Kari. She'll just take a round to snipe out the Executioner before pulling that trick. But hey, a round to delay her isn't bad either. The hardest part about Executioner is that the Reanimates don't have the movement to choose their engagement, so you could simply get out-deployed or outmaneuvered, and face down opposing infantry that don't care about Executioner. So then it comes back to the opportunity cost - do you have more unit-unit matchups that favor Executioner, or that favor File Leader?

Coming back to the thought of delaying, File Leader has the added benefit of causing units to march into you and take a panic, rather than risk getting hit in the face first when they charge. That delay helps Waiqar, I think. If you have a Dispatch Runner in the list to activate late and hit those non-charging units anyway, you can get some more mileage.

I think I'm facing the truth that I just don't play enough games to have a good grasp on the answers. Hopefully that changes in the next couple months when we establish a Runewars Game Night at our FLGS.

My assertion is that high-wound targets avoiding Executioner can be valuable. It can contribute to the game without ever actually being used, simply by exerting threat. Similarly, Kari has plenty of targets to shoot at, but only 8 rounds to act, so even if it only delays her gameplan by a turn (rarely that simple), that quite plausibly means a complete 2x1 of Archers not vaporized by her knives. Especially when considering other specialty solutions like Death Knights with Obcasium's or Reaping Blade, the battlefield can be a very hostile place.

It probably comes down to a meta call, but it's hard to imagine Ravos and Spined Threshers not defining the current meta. My regular Waiqar opponent has gone from considering one Executioner to considering TWO.

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Hypothetically, if we have a Ravos/Thresher meta, which leads to an Executioner meta, is that enough to make you shy away from units with high wound thresholds? Are you taking more infantry over siege units?

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2 hours ago, Drakoniss said:

Quick random list of things spined threshers did in the last few games with scuttle. They where already amazing and then.

1. Caused to side step a incoming charge 
2 Caused me to line up an impossible charge
3. Turn a front charge into a flank charge
4.pulled out of shooting arc
5. Charge 360 degrees out of terrain almost range 4
6. Caused me to move 360 out of terrain almost range 5.
7 caused me to shift sideways into combat
8. Caused me to shift sideways out of combat.
9. The stun
10 slide one sideways reform the forward one is amazing.
11. Engages to the side on initiative 0 and still dial 
attack and attack 
modification.

I think I can’t list at least 6 more.

This is not great for the health of the game.  I think the power creep curve got steeper.

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47 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Hypothetically, if we have a Ravos/Thresher meta, which leads to an Executioner meta, is that enough to make you shy away from units with high wound thresholds? Are you taking more infantry over siege units?

Sure, yeah. I haven't run Hawthorne in a while (pure coincidence, trying other builds), and if I see lots of Executioners at Nationals you can bet he'll stay on the bench. Kari I consider more of a ranged piece in general, but if I have to watch her get executed a couple times...

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8 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Hypothetically, if we have a Ravos/Thresher meta, which leads to an Executioner meta, is that enough to make you shy away from units with high wound thresholds? Are you taking more infantry over siege units?

Do not forget flesh rippers with dead sprint is super super strong also.

 

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6 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Touche.

Ravos. 2 2x1 spined threshers with scuttle and 2 2x2 flesh rippers with dead sprint, is a powerhouse. The key to stopping it is making sure you get control of 2 of the terrain pieces.

 

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On 6/15/2018 at 1:46 PM, flightmaster101 said:

This is not great for the health of the game.  I think the power creep curve got steeper.

Ok I have been talked off the ledge a bit.  I still think the underlying issue stands.  Did ST really need a card to improve them? I can see golems needing Baron Z, but ST are soooooooo good already.

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I’m wondering why this card doesn’t have the clause, ‘you cannot disengage with this shift’ like every other free shift action in the game. That to me is the worst part of the design with this card. 

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54 minutes ago, Jukey said:

I’m wondering why this card doesn’t have the clause, ‘you cannot disengage with this shift’ like every other free shift action in the game. That to me is the worst part of the design with this card. 

The 'cannot disengage' part is a reminder of what's in the rules. You can't use this to disengage.

Quote

73.4 Disengage: To disengage, the unit must perform the shift in the direction directly opposite of its contacted edge for that engagement.

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Panzerninja said:

If you are flanked you most defiantly can use this card to disengage since you are moving sideways

Not only can you disengage from being flanked, you can them move up to 4 or charge some else in the same turn.

Edited by Drakoniss
grammar

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