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Raahk

Rule Question: Same random basic weakness. Twice!

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Hello everybody,

after gloriously finishing a campaing in "A Path to Carcosa" we were instructed to add random basic weaknesses to our decks. One investigator drew a basic weakness that he already had in his deck. Is it possible (if you actually were that unlucky) to have both same random weaknesses, say psychosis, in play?

 

Thanks!

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6 minutes ago, Raahk said:

Hello everybody,

after gloriously finishing a campaing in "A Path to Carcosa" we were instructed to add random basic weaknesses to our decks. One investigator drew a basic weakness that he already had in his deck. Is it possible (if you actually were that unlucky) to have both same random weaknesses, say psychosis, in play?

 

Thanks!

Sure. Only The Thing That Follows is unique among Weakness, I believe. 

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43 minutes ago, Network57 said:

Sure. Only The Thing That Follows is unique among Weakness, I believe. 

Uniqueness only applies to when it's in play.

You build your weakness pool from a single set of weaknesses from each that you own.  Some of those will be duplicated in your pool (Paranoia, Chronophobia, etc) while others will only appear once (Mob Enforcer, Stubborn Detective, etc).  Technically each investigator should have a separate pool, and you should draw from them without replacing.  So if your deck starts with a Mob Enforcer and you have to add another, you should draw from the remaining ones.

Depending on your collection it may not be feasible to have a fully separate set for each investigator, which is generally fine.  I actually use an app (or ArkhamDB) to generate mine, so it only becomes an issue when two investigators actually collide.

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45 minutes ago, Network57 said:

Sure. Only The Thing That Follows is unique among Weakness, I believe. 

Same with Doomed.  Both of the basic weaknesses from The Forgotten Age are unique, because you'll need to have their consequence available (and being in someone else's deck would make it unavailable).

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considering the card is psychosis, it seems the player put the basic weakness decks of 2 cores together.  you are only supposed to use 1 of them.  the "2x of" in the core set are Paranoia and Amnesia.

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12 minutes ago, C2K said:

considering the card is psychosis, it seems the player put the basic weakness decks of 2 cores together.  you are only supposed to use 1 of them.  the "2x of" in the core set are Paranoia and Amnesia.

Yes its true that i threw the basic weaknesses of two cores together because i have several investigator teams (2 players and 4 players) at the same time. If I understand correctly, as soon as you're playing with more than 2 players the second set of weaknesses gets thrown into the pool as well.

It was kind of a weird situation so i decided to use the weaknesses which were left in the pool instead of searching all the weaknesses from one core, putting them together, subtract those we already had in our decks etc etc....

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1 hour ago, Raahk said:

Yes its true that i threw the basic weaknesses of two cores together because i have several investigator teams (2 players and 4 players) at the same time. If I understand correctly, as soon as you're playing with more than 2 players the second set of weaknesses gets thrown into the pool as well.

It was kind of a weird situation so i decided to use the weaknesses which were left in the pool instead of searching all the weaknesses from one core, putting them together, subtract those we already had in our decks etc etc....

This isn't exactly correct.  Each of your two teams should have its own pool of weaknesses, made up of all the weaknesses from one copy of the Core Set and whatever deluxe expansions you have.  It's a little bit annoying keeping the cards all separated out, but that is the intended way for it to work (otherwise you could have 2 Indebted or 2 Doomed, and nobody wants that).

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FYI Here is what a weakness "deck" should be made up of with counts if you have all the expansions to date:

  • 1 Mob Enforcer
  • 1 Silver Twilight Acolyte
  • 1 Stubborn Detective
  • 1 The Thing That Follows
  • 2 Amnesia
  • 2 Chronophobia
  • 1 Dark Pact
  • 1 Doomed
  • 1 Drawing the Sign
  • 1 Haunted
  • 1 Hypochondria
  • 2 Indebted
  • 2 Internal Injury
  • 2 Overzealous
  • 2 Paranoia
  • 1 Psychosis

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6 hours ago, SGPrometheus said:

This isn't exactly correct.  Each of your two teams should have its own pool of weaknesses, made up of all the weaknesses from one copy of the Core Set and whatever deluxe expansions you have.  It's a little bit annoying keeping the cards all separated out, but that is the intended way for it to work (otherwise you could have 2 Indebted or 2 Doomed, and nobody wants that).

Well, you do have 2 Indebted (see @Jobu's post for the full list).

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7 hours ago, SGPrometheus said:

This isn't exactly correct.  Each of your two teams should have its own pool of weaknesses, made up of all the weaknesses from one copy of the Core Set and whatever deluxe expansions you have.  It's a little bit annoying keeping the cards all separated out, but that is the intended way for it to work (otherwise you could have 2 Indebted or 2 Doomed, and nobody wants that).

Is that so? This basically means that each team of investigators has their own pool of basic weaknesses to draw from plus any leftover-weaknesses from the expansions.

The basic weaknesses run out pretty quickly with four players and only one coreset, don't they?

 

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1 minute ago, Raahk said:

Is that so? This basically means that each team of investigators has their own pool of basic weaknesses to draw from plus any leftover-weaknesses from the expansions.

The basic weaknesses run out pretty quickly with four players and only one coreset, don't they?

No, because you don't draw that many of them. In Night of the Zealot (the core set campaign), each player can get 1 extra basic weakness, for a maximum of 8 basic weaknesses in the team (out of 10). I suppose you could run out of basic weaknesses if you went crazy with XP in standalone mode, but you just can't run out in campaign mode.

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Okay, so in the future i separate both sets of basic weaknesses from eachother and keep them to their respective investigator team. Any weaknesses from the expansions I throw in to whichever group is playing

Edited by Raahk
typo

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3 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

It shouldn't happen in the first place, because the whole group should use the same weakness pool.

I have to imagine playing at a con where everyone brings pre-built decks, it has to happen sometimes.

But outside of that ya, it should never happen.

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I can see how it would be awkward to borrow cards from someone you don't know much and won't see often. However, you could do the following:

  • Each player brings a deck without basic weaknesses (since those are selected last, anyway) and a weakness pool (several players at the same table can share a weakness pool if they want - I'm thinking of people who came together).
  • Each player draws weaknesses from a single pool, then uses the corresponding weaknesses from their own pool.

That way, you won't take a stranger's cards by mistake (or have a stranger take yours).

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To be completely honest, I often have multiple investigators built for different campaigns at a given time and I just cannot be bothered to pull their weaknesses after every game to make sure all investigators have an equal chance at pulling weaknesses. 

In my mind, it is completely possible for any investigator to have any weakness (barring 2nd core copies, which I don't have), so if the card pool isn't spot on, it doesn't matter so much because they could have randomly gotten the same weakness anyway. I can understand why some people are sticklers about this, but as Jobu mentioned, in a large event with pre-built decks it's going to happen. I also don't force the other players I play with to pull from my weakness pool because it's just not a big deal to me.

But yes, this is technically how you do it. ❤️ 

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3 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

I can see how it would be awkward to borrow cards from someone you don't know much and won't see often. However, you could do the following:

  • Each player brings a deck without basic weaknesses (since those are selected last, anyway) and a weakness pool (several players at the same table can share a weakness pool if they want - I'm thinking of people who came together).
  • Each player draws weaknesses from a single pool, then uses the corresponding weaknesses from their own pool.

That way, you won't take a stranger's cards by mistake (or have a stranger take yours).

OR you could add dice to this diceless game and just make a list and roll a die for each player to make sure that the probability is what it should be while not having to have a 'weakness pool' and each player can just slot the weakness from their own collection after they roll.

(I know, I know, keep your filthy dice away from my chaos bag! Cue gardening tools and various burning wooden objects.)

Edited by Soakman

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Dice aren't the right tool for this, for the same reason they can't replace the chaos bag: when we're drawing a weakness or a chaos token, it becomes unavailable for the rest of the draw.

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36 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

Dice aren't the right tool for this, for the same reason they can't replace the chaos bag: when we're drawing a weakness or a chaos token, it becomes unavailable for the rest of the draw.

I mean, that is a good point, but in the good ol' days, we would just re-roll until we got an option that was available. At a max of 4 players, I doubt you'll forget what weaknesses others drew if you go one at a time, but sure.

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1 hour ago, Khudzlin said:

I can see how it would be awkward to borrow cards from someone you don't know much and won't see often. However, you could do the following:

  • Each player brings a deck without basic weaknesses (since those are selected last, anyway) and a weakness pool (several players at the same table can share a weakness pool if they want - I'm thinking of people who came together).
  • Each player draws weaknesses from a single pool, then uses the corresponding weaknesses from their own pool.

That way, you won't take a stranger's cards by mistake (or have a stranger take yours).

This is overkill, and actually directly addressed in the FAQ:

If each investigator has their own collection of cards, they should each use their own pool of weaknesses constructed in the same manner, so as to avoid players’ cards getting mixed together accidentally.

The rules are actually pretty fuzzy on whether every investigator should have their own pool, or whether everyone in the campaign should use the same pool.  Linking the above to "Do you have your own collection" makes it even fuzzier.  Is the base way to use one pool, and you separate them for convenience to avoid mixing?  Or is the base way to use one for each if possible, and merge them for the sake of handling a limited collection?

I tend to play with a full pool for each investigator.  Honestly, there's a fair case to be made that EVERY weakness added should be from a clean pool.  The Learn to Play says:

To select a random basic weakness, take a set of the ten basic weaknesses in this core set, shuffle those weaknesses together, and draw one at random to add to the investigator’s deck.

That's not elaborated on in the Rules Ref at all, and nothing ever links the pool to the investigator.  So if you add a new weakness mid-campaign, you follow the same procedure.  Not sure if that's intentional or not, but it seems to be what a strict reading suggests.

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On 6/15/2018 at 12:58 PM, Buhallin said:

The rules are actually pretty fuzzy on whether every investigator should have their own pool, or whether everyone in the campaign should use the same pool.

I've asked Matt about this before. You share a basic weakness pool if you share a collection. If you personally own eight core sets and four of each expansion, and everyone's playing with cards that you've directly supplied, the entire team uses one pool. If each player builds their own deck at home and takes it to an event, each player has a separate weakness pool (and, thus, you could end up with four Mob Enforcers in play simultaneously).

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