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Belphegor07

Why do people want a super star destroyer?

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On 6/13/2018 at 12:27 PM, Belphegor07 said:

I often see people talking on here about how much they want a super star destroyer in the game and I'm confused why. Now obviously I'm a star wars fan like the rest of you so another beautiful model would be great and at this point I'll take any bit armada news I can get! But I'm really struggling to see how it would fit into the game as it currently stands 

It's scale is so large. Now obviously we have a sliding scale with this game and I have no problem with using a bit of imagination whilst playing, but with a ship who's defining characteristic is its massive size, could this ship be represented in a way that feels right? Is a scaled down SSD missing the ships wow factor? 

Does the game need a more powerful ship then its current big guns? Surely to feel like the massive weapon of death that it is, the SSD would need to throw more dice than an ISD or any of the Mon Calamari equivalents could. Is that a good thing? Does that help the game balance at all? The game is primarily won by playing to the objectives, would more dice throwing mean we lose this and armada because more of a death match game? 

Or perhaps it's size is represented with expensive points or loads of hull? We keep complaining that Rieekan games turn into point fortressing and slow games, would the SSD not just cause the same issue? A 200 point ship that doesn't die sounds like a less exciting game to me. 

This isn't meant as an insult or an argument to anyone that does want an SSD in the game, I just can't see why the game needs it and I would like to be convinced because riding aboard the hype train is much more fun then the cynical bus that I'm on. 

I can very well understand the worry of scale but what about other smaller but still very powerful ships that could be added, such as the bellator class star battlecruiser:  the image shown by fractal sponge is fantastic and I will leave links below to see them, any way. The bellator class is 7.2 kilometers long and while still extremely powerfull, was unlike most other battlecruisers at the time designed for speed and mobility rather than firepower, with this fact and that there is no official or unofficial number for its weapons fantasy flight games could easily bend its size and firepower to make a ship that is stronger than an ISD but not impossible to beat as the rebels size. If this is still to big for you, there are two ships that you could have as choices. The Praetor mk 2 battlecruiser, and the Allegiance class heavy star destroyer.

The Allegiance class star destroyer is only 2.2 km long so it could very easily be placed into the game without much difficulty coupling that with the fact that it only added about 10-20 extra guns,(though they are very big guns) it would really just be a new ISD with a larger model and some more dice. If that is to much like the ISD for you the Praetor mk 2 is for you.

The Praetor mk 2 battlecruiser was designed for the republic navy but was completed in the time of the empire very shortly after the end of the clone wars. It has the distinct dagger shaped hull of the ISD but its entire superstructure is different, since the republic designed it, it suffered from not enough guns for its size, It still could outgun an ISD or even an Allegiance class, but scaled down for armada it would be quit manegable, in legends the rebels even got there hands on one of these after the battle of endor, so there is potential for both the rebels and the imperials getting battlecruisers. The Praetor also got the republics trait of good anti starfighter weapons and lots of fighters so that could lead to some interesting mk 2a and mk2b models. its size was 4.5 km long so that could cause some problems but I don't think that many.

Please reply if you like my ideas or more probably find problems or improvements in them.

the link for the bellator class dreadnought photos are:  http://fractalsponge.net/?p=155

the link for the allegiance class is:  http://fractalsponge.net/?p=2908

the link for the Praetor class is  http://fractalsponge.net/?p=2846

this is kind of missing the point of his post but i'm sending this to the forum at large.

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16 hours ago, Darth Bane's Wrath said:

but what about other smaller but still very powerful ships that could be added, such as

Because this isn’t a thread about the general state of the game or the release schedule or possible future expansions. This is a thread about, specifically, the Executor and the desires of many fans to have a model of it for Armada. ANY other ship is irrelevant to the topic of this thread. 

 

Not to say that such suggestions wouldnt be good in another thread that was about those things...

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For everyone on about scale, the Beth's short-lived WOTC starships game had an executed and mob calamari viscount ship as its largest class and it didn't feel too weird next to similarly sized SSDs. It was probably one of the most beautiful models in that game and I would love to see it in Armada.

 

Closer to home the scale is already a soup sandwich for Armada and by principle alone the Squadrons make it all wacky. So I think it would be fine to have as simply double to triple the size of an SSD. I agree about the costing and make it:

240 points 

22 Hull

8 red, 4 black, 4 blue out of front arc

4 red, 2 black and 2 blue out of sides

2 red, 1 black and 1 blue out of rear 

Anti-Squadron 1 each of red, black and blue

And then give it two of each upgrade slot. 

 

Command 7

Squadron 7

Repair 7

 

Shields:

Front 6

Side 5

Rear 4

And give it the ability:

At the start of the ship phase place add one TIE Fighter or TIE Bomber squadron to the play area adjacent to your ship. 

OR

Once per round after a friendly TIE Fighter or Bomber  Squadron is destroyed, instead remove all damage and place it adjacent to this ship. 

 

Now that, I would fly

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IMHO Mel's executor is more Bellator-sized, And I would use it that way if I can ever think of a way to adapt its size to play. I think it is the biggest thing that Shapeway an fit into their printers, so we will not have more.

The post was "why...?" and the answer is just "Because!". I now own, thanks to Mel, a Executor and a Resurgent, I will buy a FO dreadnough in the future, and any big ship that is for sale....

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17 hours ago, GILLIES291 said:

For everyone on about scale, the Beth's short-lived WOTC starships game had an executed and mob calamari viscount ship as its largest class and it didn't feel too weird next to similarly sized SSDs. It was probably one of the most beautiful models in that game and I would love to see it in Armada.

 

Closer to home the scale is already a soup sandwich for Armada and by principle alone the Squadrons make it all wacky. So I think it would be fine to have as simply double to triple the size of an SSD. I agree about the costing and make it:

240 points 

22 Hull

8 red, 4 black, 4 blue out of front arc

4 red, 2 black and 2 blue out of sides

2 red, 1 black and 1 blue out of rear 

Anti-Squadron 1 each of red, black and blue

And then give it two of each upgrade slot. 

 

Command 7

Squadron 7

Repair 7

 

Shields:

Front 6

Side 5

Rear 4

And give it the ability:

At the start of the ship phase place add one TIE Fighter or TIE Bomber squadron to the play area adjacent to your ship. 

OR

Once per round after a friendly TIE Fighter or Bomber  Squadron is destroyed, instead remove all damage and place it adjacent to this ship. 

 

Now that, I would fly

You say you would fly it but of course you bl**dy would, as would all Imps.

Every example (moving on from scale) has these ships toooo overpowered (even though they were)

If this ship double arcs it can throw 12 red, 6 black, 6 blue (being conservative thats roughly 20 damage or so every double arc...) Ridiculous

3 of each colour for Sqauds as well (plus Kallus?!?!) so it shoots front arc does 10 min damage then basically kills the opponents squadron ball?!?!

Now lets look at it's Commands: 7 squadrons really? So it can activate nose punch you with probably the ENTIRE squadron ball then throw 10-15 damage min from just the front arc..... Ridiculous

Now 22 hull (25 with Motti), and 11 shields to get around with a redirect, so taking it has that token you have to do min 11 damage just to get through the shields without them bracing... Ridiculous  

Upgrade wise 2 of each? Please imperials give me a break. So this ship has Kallus, RBD, EWS/ECM, Vet gunners, gunnery teams, ACMs, Ord pods (with double upgrades)

take this one ship beat every other list in the game

I won't even get started on giving it abilities as well. 

The ship while being cool asf, just would not suit this game at all! and would force everyone to run counter SSD fleets just incase 1 person brings 1 to a store champ, ruining the vary game itself and nullifying the point of list building. Not to be condescending in the above but it's ridiculous, and every example i've seen people give has been.. just add the death star already...

SSD shouldn't even be a debate, lovely in theory, but ironically that would kill the game. Scale means nothing when you couldn't add the ship to the game without making it much weaker than it's in canon, or just too overpowered for its own good.

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On 6/16/2018 at 6:33 AM, DOMSWAT911 said:

There is two way to see this :

1 : If you want a "playable" SSD

2 : If you want a static ship good for a campaign scenario.

For option 1 : You need something that will be big enough to have a good visual impact by is mass but not too big because you want to move it (even at speed 1). I could like the idea that the rear end could be the one that make the pivot for more easyness on mouvement. It have to cost similarly around the cost of two ISD because if it bring to the table less than two ISD, you will choose two ISD. At 600 points, you will be alone on the table and we want a "Armada". This way, even for a game at 400 points, you could have 2 or 3 ships (if your SSD is around 240 points). I don't like the idea to put 2 hull zone on the side because it will bring more shield (total) and you could fire two times on the same target (different hull zone, so could aim the same target). I want the possibility to destroy a SSD during a game. It have to be powerfull but not too much (because of balancing and you don't want to oblitarate everything in front of you). Close to what could bring two ISD but not the same. Yes, that could be fun to have a Bellator or a Assertor Class Dreadnought too. So the SSD model should be a little bit longer from them (scalling).

For option 2 : I don't really like this option because we could bring the SSD only with the campaign option. Maybe the scalling could be better but it wont be alot on your table. Paying around 200$ for a one shot deal... it's not a good deal IMHO. ;) 

For balancing, Rebel could have the Bulwark MK3 for a counter for SSD and the Dauntless for the Bellator.

latest?cb=20120613093219

DauntlessHeavyCruiser-SWR.png

Also this is ugly beyond pale, IMPs get a beautiful SSD, Rebels get a Battlestar/Mon Cal lovechild #salty

Edited by EbonHawk

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35 minutes ago, EbonHawk said:

...

SSD shouldn't even be a debate, lovely in theory, but ironically that would kill the game. Scale means nothing when you couldn't add the ship to the game without making it much weaker than it's in canon, or just too overpowered for its own good.

I have to agree with you that most of the SSD designs I have seen are over the top. But I have to disagree that it should not even be a debate, using that same logic the CR-90 should not be in the game as they had to ram up its power so much that it is not even the same ship we see in the movies (and talk about scale being thrown out the window as well).

 

My take on what stats I think that the SSD should have (I preface this with I have not really thought that much about it, so this most likely will need some adjustment.)

I see it sized as XL (or epic if you want)

Command - 4 (it is massive so not the most responsive of ships)
Squadron - 3 (but could also see it as a 2, it is built to command ships not squadrons)
Engineering - 6 (being so large it has lots of engineers to throw at a problem, also see next part)

I would have it have six facings, front, left/right forward, left/right back, and rear, this makes it harder for the engineering to keep on top of it (one reason for a six engineering). With shield facings of front 5, left/right forward 4, left/right back 3, and rear 2. With between fifteen and twenty hull points

For anti-squadron I would say go with two blues (yes it may have more guns, but it also has lots more area to cover) if you have to have three dice one blue, and two blacks, it should not be able to one shot fighters before they are close to it, so no triple blue or red with any other die.

Anti-ship I would say something like Front six red, two blue, two black or five red, and five blue.
Left/right front two red, three blue or one red, two blue, two black.
Left/right back thinking one red, four blue or two blue, three black
Rear one red, two blue, and one black, or one red, one blue, and two black.

Upgrades not sure, but thinking one of each excluding experimental retrofit and either turbolaser or ordinance.

And last cost I would say (and like I said have not put lots of thought into it so this likely could use some adjustment) some place between around 200-300 points. It is very tough but not twice as tough as the Imperial, more fire power but not twice as much, more options (but that cost more points) but still not twice as many. So overall I do not think it would be a bad ship, but I also do not think that it is twice as tough as the Imperial, I could see releasing some XL only command upgrades as it is a fleet command ship, but I do not see it as the uber battleship others make it out to be, and based on what we see on screen does not back that up.

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5 minutes ago, CDAT said:

I have to agree with you that most of the SSD designs I have seen are over the top. But I have to disagree that it should not even be a debate, using that same logic the CR-90 should not be in the game as they had to ram up its power so much that it is not even the same ship we see in the movies (and talk about scale being thrown out the window as well).

 

My take on what stats I think that the SSD should have (I preface this with I have not really thought that much about it, so this most likely will need some adjustment.)

I see it sized as XL (or epic if you want)

Command - 4 (it is massive so not the most responsive of ships)
Squadron - 3 (but could also see it as a 2, it is built to command ships not squadrons)
Engineering - 6 (being so large it has lots of engineers to throw at a problem, also see next part)

I would have it have six facings, front, left/right forward, left/right back, and rear, this makes it harder for the engineering to keep on top of it (one reason for a six engineering). With shield facings of front 5, left/right forward 4, left/right back 3, and rear 2. With between fifteen and twenty hull points

For anti-squadron I would say go with two blues (yes it may have more guns, but it also has lots more area to cover) if you have to have three dice one blue, and two blacks, it should not be able to one shot fighters before they are close to it, so no triple blue or red with any other die.

Anti-ship I would say something like Front six red, two blue, two black or five red, and five blue.
Left/right front two red, three blue or one red, two blue, two black.
Left/right back thinking one red, four blue or two blue, three black
Rear one red, two blue, and one black, or one red, one blue, and two black.

Upgrades not sure, but thinking one of each excluding experimental retrofit and either turbolaser or ordinance.

And last cost I would say (and like I said have not put lots of thought into it so this likely could use some adjustment) some place between around 200-300 points. It is very tough but not twice as tough as the Imperial, more fire power but not twice as much, more options (but that cost more points) but still not twice as many. So overall I do not think it would be a bad ship, but I also do not think that it is twice as tough as the Imperial, I could see releasing some XL only command upgrades as it is a fleet command ship, but I do not see it as the uber battleship others make it out to be, and based on what we see on screen does not back that up.

Now this design is much more game friendly! Thumbs up :) 

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On 6/13/2018 at 1:14 PM, jamie nasmyth said:

You know this thread has fallen off the front page of the forum. Some one really should post on it to bring it back up to the top. I'm sure its on someones Armada Bingo.....

DSCF9846_zpshc59ahq6  

Just thought I would share my own Thread on this.  Thanks!

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I would love to have an Executor model with working lights.

I do not want an SSD for Armada.

Even remotely build to scale it would be too big for practical play.

"What do we do with it?"

"It sits there at speed zero."

"What? Why?"

"As soon as it moves its off the board." 

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14 hours ago, Vondy said:

I would love to have an Executor model with working lights.

I do not want an SSD for Armada.

Even remotely build to scale it would be too big for practical play.

"What do we do with it?"

"It sits there at speed zero."

"What? Why?"

"As soon as it moves its off the board." 

They could scale it so it has all 1 speed moves.

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1 hour ago, LTD said:

The opponent could just place obstacles so it lands on 3 asteroids every turn - add Dodonna, don’t bother shooting. That’s a 10/1.

I know most people are expecting a 2 SD base ship or bigger, but I’m thinking SD and a half base. 

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