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50 minutes ago, Eldan985 said:

Ooh. Ichtacha seems quite strong.

 

Edit: and Marksmanship. Marksmanship is... fantastic? In the right situation? 

I am not sure.  Currently Firearms are undervalued compared to most melee weapons as they run out of ammo.  I can put a machete down and hack away all game for 3 resources and occasionally I need to be action inefficient to do so (+1 damage with only engaged enemies).  Guns you need to keep bringing out more or reload them spending more and more resources to do so but you don't have to play the engagement game to do so.  We have cards to mitigate that like extra ammo and now marksmanship, but I am not sure that spending more resources on them will make them more appealing.

I will say the efficiency of saving a move and doing +1 damage is great for 2 resources.

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56 minutes ago, SGPrometheus said:

Hey, with Marksmanship the Springfield M1903 is finally (maybe) good!  You know, for the two actions where you can play it, unless you find some way to recur it.

Yeah, the Springfield still sucks.

People say that but in a 4 player game 3 out of 4 enemies are engaged with someone else.  You run into issues with Massive, but again in 4 player someone can just evade it for you.  Plus its one less xp and 2 less resources than the lightning gun.  The xp is largely negligible, but most guardians are trying to scrap as much as possible out of each resource.
It really doesn't require more management than a Machete and we are all use to the Machete game.  (your allies engaging the enemy to pull it off of you). 

I think I am saying depending on character, deck, number of players and composition of the other players decks, the Springfield may be a good, cheaper alternative to the Lightning Gun.

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The problem with the springfield IMO is that it does not compare favorably with the Shotgun, which has the same XP cost (although it is 1 more resource and 1 less ammo).  It's restriction is too problematic.   Since the springfield will take up both your hand slots, there is no option to use a backup weapon for when something spawns engaged with you,  unless you are also running Bandolier, which is an option... but it takes a while to hit that setup.     By then you're spending 4 resource for the Springfield, 2 resource on Bandolier and 3 more on a Machete, starts looking very costly.  

Marksman did immediately make me think of the weapon as well,  but Marksman is really no better with the Springfield1903 than it is with the lightning gun, or shotgun.  What the 1903 needs to be viable is a card that allows for easy or automatic disengagement.   something essentially like a Guardian version of the Cat Burglar  (movement is also not necessary, or even desired).  

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I am aware of its limitation, but can't your seeker just investigate, investigate, engage it off of you and you are home free for the shot?

I mean the opposite with the machete is for you to take your first action to engage the enemy away from the seeker and then smash him down (if he has more than 1hp.

In a four player game you will need to pull enemies off of other players for machete more than they will need to have them pull them off of you since everyone else draws 3x as many cards as you.  It appears to have more action efficiency overall.

Marksmanship is a pretty efficient card by its lonesome with any and all firearms.

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IMHO Marksmanship is pretty solid.  At a minimum it will save you one action and probably get you an extra damage, and Skids establishes that the two cost is on target for an extra action.  So the damage becomes gravy.  But its situational cases only go up from there.  Against Aloof it can save you two.  Against Hunters it removes the choice of moving out of your location to engage them first or taking the hit as they come in.

It's not game breaking by any means, and it is still situational.  But its value goes up as you have more players, and I think the potential uses make it a good candidate for at least a one-of to pack under Stick to the Plan.

 

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Marksmanship is really good because in multiple ways it saves actions.  whether through the additional wound, the removal of aloof, or just not having to make the move, it allows your turn to be more productive.

Edited by C2K
typos

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What we're agreeing on is that yes: Marksmanship is great. Not game breaking, but powerful in its niche and interesting. It makes all firearms a little better, which in turn makes the Springfield a little better, but still not as good as the lightning gun/shotgun. I think a deck designed around evading/disengaging enemies to use the Springfield would be neat, but hardly efficient. Paradoxically, since Leo can run Cat Burglar, he'd be most likely to pull this off, even with his 1 agility. Maybe Mark, his 3 agi is decent.

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6 hours ago, Buhallin said:

IMHO Marksmanship is pretty solid.  At a minimum it will save you one action and probably get you an extra damage, and Skids establishes that the two cost is on target for an extra action.  So the damage becomes gravy.  But its situational cases only go up from there.  Against Aloof it can save you two.  Against Hunters it removes the choice of moving out of your location to engage them first or taking the hit as they come in.

It's not game breaking by any means, and it is still situational.  But its value goes up as you have more players, and I think the potential uses make it a good candidate for at least a one-of to pack under Stick to the Plan.

 

Skids shows that repeatable extra actions cost 2 resources. 

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1 hour ago, Radix2309 said:

Skids shows that repeatable extra actions cost 2 resources. 

Not sure what the distinction is here?

1 hour ago, SGPrometheus said:

I think a deck designed around evading/disengaging enemies to use the Springfield would be neat, but hardly efficient. Paradoxically, since Leo can run Cat Burglar, he'd be most likely to pull this off, even with his 1 agility. Maybe Mark, his 3 agi is decent.

This is one of the reasons I think it's much better in multiplayer.  Many, many more opportunities to have something engaged elsewhere.  Probably a whole lot of fun with Finn as a sidekick too.

 

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Another really strong card, Scene of the Crime. Two resources, no checks, find one or two clues. Can't see how that one got made, really. I mean, compare to poor old Drawn to the Flame. (Let's start the Scene of the Crime podcast!) Seems a staple for a lot of solo decks, as a splash card.

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13 minutes ago, Eldan985 said:

Another really strong card, Scene of the Crime. Two resources, no checks, find one or two clues. Can't see how that one got made, really. I mean, compare to poor old Drawn to the Flame. (Let's start the Scene of the Crime podcast!) Seems a staple for a lot of solo decks, as a splash card.

Drawn to the Flame doesn't cost any resources, doesn't have to be played as your first action, and is always 2 clues.  Seems like a reasonable trade off to me.  Working a Hunch is also 2 resources for 1 clue without any checks, and it's fast.  So I don't see why you think Scene of the Crime is overpowered compared to the options we already have.

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@Buhallin The distinction is that a repeatable thing (be it card draw, actions, heals) is always more expensive than a one-time thing.  In Magic, for instance, a sorcery that draws you two cards might cost around 3 mana, but a card that lets you pay mana to draw cards repeatedly is usually about 4 mana per card; reliability has its cost.

With that being said though, I'm pretty sure Marksmanship saves you at least one action (the extra damage is worth `1 action) and could save you three (1 to move and 1 to engage, if aloof), which is pretty great.  Also combos with Double or Nothing for +2 damage; now we're cookin'.

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24 minutes ago, Radix2309 said:

Also it is testless damage, which is worth slightly more than 1 action as mano a mano shows.

What is testless damage?

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Damage that you don't have to draw from the Chaos Bag for.

Anything that lets you do something that normally requires a test without a test is intrinsically more valuable. 

Working a Hunch for Investigate, Beat Cop, Stray Cat, etc. They all provide invedtigation, damage and evasion without risk of failure or penalty.

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1 minute ago, Radix2309 said:

Damage that you don't have to draw from the Chaos Bag for.

Anything that lets you do something that normally requires a test without a test is intrinsically more valuable. 

Working a Hunch for Investigate, Beat Cop, Stray Cat, etc. They all provide invedtigation, damage and evasion without risk of failure or penalty.

No I get that, what are you saying is testless damage?

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Testless means without drawing from the chaos bag. Any card that just deals damage without you having to draw a token. LIke beat cop: discard, deal one damage. No tests involved. Means it can't really fail.

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Just now, Eldan985 said:

Testless means without drawing from the chaos bag. Any card that just deals damage without you having to draw a token. LIke beat cop: discard, deal one damage. No tests involved. Means it can't really fail.

Is this a bit? What card are you saying is testless damage?

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10 minutes ago, Donel said:

No I get that, what are you saying is testless damage?

Some people view clues as damaging the act deck.  Its not a wrong view but it can create confusion since these words have specific definitions in the game.

A better phrase would be a testless effect.

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