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StriderZessei

2.0 Theorycrafting and Speculation: Build-a-Dash! (Copied from my Reddit Post)

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Like many of you, I was first drawn to X-Wing when I learned my favorite ship, the YT-2400 from freaking Shadows of the Empire was a flyable craft. Now with 2.0 on the horizon, I'm really stoked to start thinking about how my favorite pilot is going to fare. Granted until we know the point cost for everything (and I'll be using 2.0 point values as much as possible,) this might be all moot; but I'm just so excited! Also, if this thread picks up enough steam, I'll try and do one every Saturday, featuring whichever ship the community wants to talk about next!

Let's start with what we know.

YT-2400
Attack: 4 [dual rotating arc]
Evade: 2
Hull: 6
Shield: 4
Actions: Focus (White), Target Lock (White) Barrel Roll (Red), and Arc Rotation (White)
Special Equipment: "Sensor Blindspot: While you perform a primary attack at attack range 0-1, do not apply the range 0-1 bonus and roll 1 fewer attack die."
Confirmed Slots: 1 Crew, 1 Gunner. Very likely to have an Illicit slot.
The dial is 100% the same as in 1.0, so I won't be listing it here.

Dash Rendar, Hotshot Mercenary
Initiative: 5
Ability: "While you move, you ignore obstacles." [This has been confirmed to mean any movement, whether maneuver, action, or involuntary action like being ionized or tractor beamed.]
We do not have 100% confirmation that Dash will have an EPT, but it's highly likely, so for the sake of discussion, let's assume he does.

So now, knowing what we know, let's discuss the various crew, talents, and upgrades that could be the best for Dash.

NOTE: I'm not making a comprehensive list of every possible upgrade for Dash, as many, like Ablative Plating, are rendered rather moot by his ability. This is simply to help generate discussion regarding Dash and the builds he could fly. Also, if I mention points, it's with 2.0 in mind.

Title: Outrider:
"While you perform an obstructed attack, the defender rolls 1 fewer defense die.
After you fully execute a maneuver, if you moved through or overlapped an obstacle, you may remove 1 of your red or orange tokens."
This clearly has amazing synergy with Dash [and has been confirmed to work with Dash's ability.] Being able to use obstacles as cover while denying your opponents that same advantage is huge. Furthermore, being able to clear stress by flying over obstacles basically gives him Kanan Jarrus crew without using the crew slot.
In short, the Outrider title is a 5-star card for Dash, and I can't imagine him ever being run without it. He already lives on obstacles, and I theorize we'll see lists with him running 3 debris, and Rigged Cargo Chute if he can still equip it (and if its cost hasn't been increased.)

EPT

-Trick Shot: "While you perform an attack that is obstructed by an obstacle, roll 1 additional attack die."
This is one of my favorite talents for Dash. Combined with the Outrider title denying the opponent a defense die, this increases Dash's attack output, giving him 5 attack dice at range 2-3, and 4 at range 0-1. Against, say, a TIE Defender at range 2, Dash is throwing 5 dice at their 3 defense dice, but matching 3 evade dice to their 3 attack. This is stupidly good. Again, this plays right into Dash's style hugging obstacles and taking cover. 4-star card, at least.

-Lone Wolf: [Unique] While you defend or perform an attack, if there are no other friendly ships at range 0-2, you may spend 1 [charge] to reroll 1 of your dice. 1 [Charge], regenerates each turn.
This is a classic EPT for Dash, and will work very well for him, seeing as he'll probably never be in a list with more than 2 ships, making the talent easy to use. It has been nerfed to one use per turn (at least until the release of a theoretical new crew or modification that could give him more charges in a turn,) but it will still go a long way towards giving Dash more survivability. This could even be his de-facto Talent. 4-stars, possibly 5.

-Expert Handling: [Your red barrel roll is white.] Dash's barrel roll is now red, so no longer stressing yourself to reposition could be nice, but with the Outrider title, he really doesn't have to worry about that. Probably won't see much play. 2-stars.

-Elusive: "While you defend, you may spend 1 (charge) to reroll 1 defense die. After you fully execute a red maneuver, recover 1 (charge). [1 Charge]"
This clearly looks good for many ships, but it will be hard for Dash to recover the charge, as his only red maneuver is a 4k. But it does make him more tanky, so you never know. 3-stars.

CREW

-Perceptive Copilot: "After you perform a (focus) action, gain 1 focus token." 4-star card here.
'Hey Dawg, I heard you like focus tokens, so here's another focus so you can focus when you're focusing.'
Recon Specialist is alive and well after being promoted to copilot, and is still a very welcome crew for Dash. Losing Rey with the Rebel-Resistance divorce will be a terrible hit to many Dash lists, and Dash can no longer Push the Limit, so getting more focus economy will be great for him. Depending on the meta, this could very well be one of Dash's favorite Crew. At least, he would be, if it weren't for...

-Seasoned Navigator: "After you reveal your dial, you may set your dial to another non-red maneuver of the same speed. While you execute that maneuver, increase its difficulty." This will be an incredible crew for a lot of ships, and I'm surprised we aren't hearing more people complain about it. It's particularly good on Dash, as almost his entire dial is white, and this provides incredible protection against blocking. If I'm not mistaken, it should play out like this:
-Dash activates. His 2 forward is now blocked by a low Ini TIE fighter, so he Navigator lets him change it to a 2 bank or 2 turn, as a red maneuver. Dash is stressed, but takes his move. If he completes it without getting blocked, if his maneuver overlapped an obstacle, Outrider procs, removing the stress he received from Navigator, and still letting him take an action. This also lets Dash choose a position that hopefully won't require him to spend his action rotating his turret.
This versatility makes me think this will be Dash's number one crew-member if we see more lists with 3 or more ships. It might be anyway! 5-stars!

GUNNER

Luke Skywalker: "At the start of the Engagement Phase, you may spend 1 [Force] to rotate your [Turret Arc] indicator. [+1 Force limit]"
First, the elephant in the room. Luke is very good, so much so, that he singlehandedly (no pun intended) has thrown some elements of the FFG forums into total chaos. However, since the AMA, many of us in the community have calmed down.
Simply put, Luke is a very, VERY expensive upgrade. Dash already has to pay a high premium for his ship and title, and Luke may simply cost too much for what he can do. Newer players will like him, but better players likely won't need him. However, depending on how things play out, if Dash-only lists become a thing, Luke could very well see play, if only for the action economy. The Force token he provides could be useful. 4-stars.

-Han Solo [Rebel]: "During the Engagement Phase, at initiative 7, you may perform a (turret arc) attack. You cannot attack from that (turret arc) again this round."
FFG returns Han to true form, allowing him to shoot first in any engagement. This could be great in circumstances where you absolutely have to kill another ship before it shoots you, sniping ships like Soontir Fel before he can fire (remember, you shoot at INI 7, so if it kills an ace, they don't get to return fire.)
Secondly, the wording on the card seems to suggest you can fire a second time from your other arc. How often this will actually happen against skilled opponents remains to be seen. Compared to other gunners, I have to give Han 3-stars.

Veteran Turret Gunner: "After you perform a primary attack, you may perform a bonus (turret arc) attack using a (turret arc) you did not already attack from this round."
I really don't like this card for Dash. It's very unlikely you will have enemies on both in front and behind, or on either side, to make use of this ability. This gunner seems more useful for ships that can attack with a forward primary, and a mobile arc, like, say, the HWK. 2-stars.

-Bistan: "After you perform a primary attack, if you are focused, you may perform a bonus [Turret] attack against a ship you have not already attacked this round." A great gunner for Dash, and has great synergy with Perceptive Copilot. Being able to throw 4-5 dice is good, doing it twice is AWESOME. Remember, this second attack can be done from either the same arc as the first, or the other.
I also like that it gives your opponent a choice to make; do they want to swarm you from multiple angles, and how can they do so while chasing Dash into an asteroid field? 4-stars.

-Hotshot Gunner: "While you perform a [Turret] attack, after the Modify Defense Dice step, the defender removes 1 focus or calculate token."
So apparently the Hotshot Copilot got fired from the cockpit, and has been reassigned to a turret. This is another great gunner that I consider a sleeper hit. Being able to deny your opponents a focus before they can attack you is great, and Hotshot is no longer a double-edged sword. Many of the other gunners are so conditional, that I don't think they will be that good. Hostshot Gunner seems to be useful in far more situations, and thus a better points investment. 4-stars.

Ezra Bridger: "After you perform a primary attack, you may spend 1 [Force] to perform a bonus [Turret] attack from a [Turret Arc] you have not attacked from this round. If you do and you are stressed, you may reroll 1 attack die."
So he's like Veteran Turret Gunner, but with a bonus if you're stressed, and he brings a Force token to Dash. Still, I don't see him being very useful. 3-stars.

MODIFICATION

There really aren't a lot of options here for Dash; Counter-measures are gone, and many of the better mods are for small and medium ships. The only mod I'm excited to experiment with is:

Stealth Device: "While you defend, if your Charge is active, roll 1 additional defense die. After you suffer damage, lose 1 (Charge). [1 Charge]"
If Dash can consistently hide behind obstacles, he will have 4 defense dice to work with. But one hit, and it's all over.

ILLICIT upgrades haven't yet been confirmed for the YT-2400, but if they do, I think Rigged Cargo Chute will be Dash's best choice for its synergy with his ability and the Outrider title; upgrades that harm Dash will be very risky, as he has only ten effective health to work with.

So now that we have a good idea of what Dash can do, what possible builds can we figure for him? Here are a couple I like:

Lone Wolf Dash
-Lone Wolf (go figure)
-Seasoned Navigator
-Hotshot Gunner
-Stealth Device
-Outrider

With this build Dash can't be blocked, and can always decide where he wants to be with near-perfect information (unless he's flying against an ace.) He can dial in the best 3-speed for the situation and then decide where he actually wants to be after his opponent moves, and then adjust if his opponent has correctly guessed where his first choice was. Then when he fires, Gunner gets to strip tokens, harming his opponents' chances of getting damage through on Dash with his 3-4 defense dice (with Stealth Device in play.) In a 'Solo' Dash list, Hotshot could be replaced with Luke, giving Dash even more economy and decision-making potential.

Tricky Dash
-Trick Shot
-Perceptive Copilot
-Bistan
-Outrider

With this build, Dash can get multiple focus and attack multiple times with 5 dice if firing through an obstacle. Against something like a YT-1300 or a Decimator and their support, this combo could be quite deadly.

But these are just a few examples! What can you come up with? What lists do you think will be good at exploiting Dash's weaknesses? How viable do you think Dash will be in a competitive setting?

Edited by StriderZessei

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3 hours ago, StriderZessei said:

Like many of you, I was first drawn to X-Wing when I learned my favorite ship, the YT-2400 from freaking Shadows of the Empire was a flyable craft. Now with 2.0 on the horizon, I'm really stoked to start thinking about how my favorite pilot is going to fare. Granted until we know the point cost for everything (and I'll be using 2.0 point values as much as possible,) this might be all moot; but I'm just so excited! Also, if this thread picks up enough steam, I'll try and do one every Saturday, featuring whichever ship the community wants to talk about next!

Let's start with what we know.

YT-2400
Attack: 4 [dual rotating arc]
Evade: 2
Hull: 6
Shield: 4
Actions: Focus (White), Target Lock (White) Barrel Roll (Red), and Arc Rotation (White)
Special Equipment: "Sensor Blindspot: While you perform a primary attack at attack range 0-1, do not apply the range 0-1 bonus and roll 1 fewer attack die."
Confirmed Slots: 1 Crew, 1 Gunner. Very likely to have an Illicit slot.
The dial is 100% the same as in 1.0, so I won't be listing it here.

Dash Rendar, Hotshot Mercenary
Initiative: 5
Ability: "While you move, you ignore obstacles." [This has been confirmed to mean any movement, whether maneuver, action, or involuntary action like being ionized or tractor beamed.]
We do not have 100% confirmation that Dash will have an EPT, but it's highly likely, so for the sake of discussion, let's assume he does.

So now, knowing what we know, let's discuss the various crew, talents, and upgrades that could be the best for Dash.

NOTE: I'm not making a comprehensive list of every possible upgrade for Dash, as many, like Ablative Plating, are rendered rather moot by his ability. This is simply to help generate discussion regarding Dash and the builds he could fly. Also, if I mention points, it's with 2.0 in mind.

Title: Outrider:
"While you perform an obstructed attack, the defender rolls 1 fewer defense die.
After you fully execute a maneuver, if you moved through or overlapped an obstacle, you may remove 1 of your red or orange tokens."
This clearly has amazing synergy with Dash [and has been confirmed to work with Dash's ability.] Being able to use obstacles as cover while denying your opponents that same advantage is huge. Furthermore, being able to clear stress by flying over obstacles basically gives him Kanan Jarrus crew without using the crew slot.
In short, the Outrider title is a 5-star card for Dash, and I can't imagine him ever being run without it. He already lives on obstacles, and I theorize we'll see lists with him running 3 debris, and Rigged Cargo Chute if he can still equip it (and if its cost hasn't been increased.)

EPT

-Trick Shot: "While you perform an attack that is obstructed by an obstacle, roll 1 additional attack die."
This is one of my favorite talents for Dash. Combined with the Outrider title denying the opponent a defense die, this increases Dash's attack output, giving him 5 attack dice at range 2-3, and 4 at range 0-1. Against, say, a TIE Defender at range 2, Dash is throwing 5 dice at their 3 defense dice, but matching 3 evade dice to their 3 attack. This is stupidly good. Again, this plays right into Dash's style hugging obstacles and taking cover. 4-star card, at least.

-Lone Wolf: [Unique] While you defend or perform an attack, if there are no other friendly ships at range 0-2, you may spend 1 [charge] to reroll 1 of your dice. 1 [Charge], regenerates each turn.
This is a classic EPT for Dash, and will work very well for him, seeing as he'll probably never be in a list with more than 2 ships, making the talent easy to use. It has been nerfed to one use per turn (at least until the release of a theoretical new crew or modification that could give him more charges in a turn,) but it will still go a long way towards giving Dash more survivability. This could even be his de-facto Talent. 4-stars, possibly 5.

-Expert Handling: [Your red barrel roll is white.] Dash's barrel roll is now red, so no longer stressing yourself to reposition could be nice, but with the Outrider title, he really doesn't have to worry about that. Probably won't see much play. 2-stars.

-Elusive: "While you defend, you may spend 1 (charge) to reroll 1 defense die. After you fully execute a red maneuver, recover 1 (charge). [1 Charge]"
This clearly looks good for many ships, but it will be hard for Dash to recover the charge, as his only red maneuver is a 4k. But it does make him more tanky, so you never know. 3-stars.

CREW

-Perceptive Copilot: "After you perform a (focus) action, gain 1 focus token." 4-star card here.
'Hey Dawg, I heard you like focus tokens, so here's another focus so you can focus when you're focusing.'
Recon Specialist is alive and well after being promoted to copilot, and is still a very welcome crew for Dash. Losing Rey with the Rebel-Resistance divorce will be a terrible hit to many Dash lists, and Dash can no longer Push the Limit, so getting more focus economy will be great for him. Depending on the meta, this could very well be one of Dash's favorite Crew. At least, he would be, if it weren't for...

-Seasoned Navigator: "After you reveal your dial, you may set your dial to another non-red maneuver of the same speed. While you execute that maneuver, increase its difficulty." This will be an incredible crew for a lot of ships, and I'm surprised we aren't hearing more people complain about it. It's particularly good on Dash, as almost his entire dial is white, and this provides incredible protection against blocking. If I'm not mistaken, it should play out like this:
-Dash activates. His 2 forward is now blocked by a low Ini TIE fighter, so he Navigator lets him change it to a 2 bank or 2 turn, as a red maneuver. Dash is stressed, but takes his move. If he completes it without getting blocked, if his maneuver overlapped an obstacle, Outrider procs, removing the stress he received from Navigator, and still letting him take an action. This also lets Dash choose a position that hopefully won't require him to spend his action rotating his turret.
This versatility makes me think this will be Dash's number one crew-member if we see more lists with 3 or more ships. It might be anyway! 5-stars!

GUNNER

Luke Skywalker: "At the start of the Engagement Phase, you may spend 1 [Force] to rotate your [Turret Arc] indicator. [+1 Force limit]"
First, the elephant in the room. Luke is very good, so much so, that he singlehandedly (no pun intended) has thrown some elements of the FFG forums into total chaos. However, since the AMA, many of us in the community have calmed down.
Simply put, Luke is a very, VERY expensive upgrade. Dash already has to pay a high premium for his ship and title, and Luke may simply cost too much for what he can do. Newer players will like him, but better players likely won't need him. However, depending on how things play out, if Dash-only lists become a thing, Luke could very well see play, if only for the action economy. The Force token he provides could be useful. 4-stars.

-Han Solo [Rebel]: "During the Engagement Phase, at initiative 7, you may perform a (turret arc) attack. You cannot attack from that (turret arc) again this round."
FFG returns Han to true form, allowing him to shoot first in any engagement. This could be great in circumstances where you absolutely have to kill another ship before it shoots you, sniping ships like Soontir Fel before he can fire (remember, you shoot at INI 7, so if it kills an ace, they don't get to return fire.)
Secondly, the wording on the card seems to suggest you can fire a second time from your other arc. How often this will actually happen against skilled opponents remains to be seen. Compared to other gunners, I have to give Han 3-stars.

Veteran Turret Gunner: "After you perform a primary attack, you may perform a bonus (turret arc) attack using a (turret arc) you did not already attack from this round."
I really don't like this card for Dash. It's very unlikely you will have enemies on both in front and behind, or on either side, to make use of this ability. This gunner seems more useful for ships that can attack with a forward primary, and a mobile arc, like, say, the HWK. 2-stars.

-Bistan: "After you perform a primary attack, if you are focused, you may perform a bonus [Turret] attack against a ship you have not already attacked this round." A great gunner for Dash, and has great synergy with Perceptive Copilot. Being able to throw 4-5 dice is good, doing it twice is AWESOME. Remember, this second attack can be done from either the same arc as the first, or the other.
I also like that it gives your opponent a choice to make; do they want to swarm you from multiple angles, and how can they do so while chasing Dash into an asteroid field? 4-stars.

-Hotshot Gunner: "While you perform a [Turret] attack, after the Modify Defense Dice step, the defender removes 1 focus or calculate token."
So apparently the Hotshot Copilot got fired from the cockpit, and has been reassigned to a turret. This is another great gunner that I consider a sleeper hit. Being able to deny your opponents a focus before they can attack you is great, and Hotshot is no longer a double-edged sword. Many of the other gunners are so conditional, that I don't think they will be that good. Hostshot Gunner seems to be useful in far more situations, and thus a better points investment. 4-stars.

Ezra Bridger: "After you perform a primary attack, you may spend 1 [Force] to perform a bonus [Turret] attack from a [Turret Arc] you have not attacked from this round. If you do and you are stressed, you may reroll 1 attack die."
So he's like Veteran Turret Gunner, but with a bonus if you're stressed, and he brings a Force token to Dash. Still, I don't see him being very useful. 3-stars.

MODIFICATION

There really aren't a lot of options here for Dash; Counter-measures are gone, and many of the better mods are for small and medium ships. The only mod I'm excited to experiment with is:

Stealth Device: "While you defend, if your Charge is active, roll 1 additional defense die. After you suffer damage, lose 1 (Charge). [1 Charge]"
If Dash can consistently hide behind obstacles, he will have 4 defense dice to work with. But one hit, and it's all over.

ILLICIT upgrades haven't yet been confirmed for the YT-2400, but if they do, I think Rigged Cargo Chute will be Dash's best choice for its synergy with his ability and the Outrider title; upgrades that harm Dash will be very risky, as he has only ten effective health to work with.

So now that we have a good idea of what Dash can do, what possible builds can we figure for him? Here are a couple I like:

Lone Wolf Dash
-Lone Wolf (go figure)
-Seasoned Navigator
-Hotshot Gunner
-Stealth Device
-Outrider

With this build Dash can't be blocked, and can always decide where he wants to be with near-perfect information (unless he's flying against an ace.) He can dial in the best 3-speed for the situation and then decide where he actually wants to be after his opponent moves, and then adjust if his opponent has correctly guessed where his first choice was. Then when he fires, Gunner gets to strip tokens, harming his opponents' chances of getting damage through on Dash with his 3-4 defense dice (with Stealth Device in play.) In a 'Solo' Dash list, Hotshot could be replaced with Luke, giving Dash even more economy and decision-making potential.

Tricky Dash
-Trick Shot
-Perceptive Copilot
-Bistan
-Outrider

With this build, Dash can get multiple focus and attack multiple times with 5 dice if firing through an obstacle. Against something like a YT-1300 or a Decimator and their support, this combo could be quite deadly.

But these are just a few examples! What can you come up with? What lists do you think will be good at exploiting Dash's weaknesses? How viable do you think Dash will be in a competitive setting?

Nice write up! 2.0 Dash is clearly going to be an insane powerhouse (just as in 1.0) - I just hope the other factions get something equivalent.. #rebelbias

 

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I already liked the reddit post, great work! Not sure I agree on Luke and seasoned navigator. I expect 2 focus tokens to be better.

Anyway, cost-wise we know that

  • Dash is 98
  • Outrider is 12
  • Lone Wolf is 5

And I guess:

  • Trickshot to be less than 5, maybe around 2
  • the Gunners have so far all been exceptionally expensive (30 Luke, 14(?) Ezra)
    • even if Bistan/Hotshot don't reach that much, they might be as expensive as 8-10 points
  • Perceptive and Navigator could be around 5

That means your LW Dash will be around 135-140 points (that's almost like a fully loaded Ghost!). Tricky Dash is maybe around 125 (like a RAC or FatHan today!)

So both builds will have to do a lot of work!

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Honestly, if Dash can take Gunner (Luke to give force tokens for mods and always accurate arcs), crew (Casian to give him extra arc dodging ability), EPT (Trickshot, and there is no way he doesn't have an ept), and the outrider title (black one title, old kanan crew, and blackout's ability all rolled into one; plus the wording on tactical scrambler implies that ships obstruct attacks now, meaning that the title would trigger even more often), then I honestly think that he should be costed near 200 points fully loaded out. You are looking at 4 attack dice (probably 5 with obstructions), that can strip target locks, stress, and ion by flying through obstacles that have no effect on him, and remove your defensive benefits from the obstacles. Oh and with Casian and Luke gunner combo you can very likely dodge any and all arc-locked ships while still having shots on them. And to top it all off you no longer have a donut hole for ships to escape your wrath and you still have your action and likely a force tokens to mod your dice.

If you can take any other ships alongside him with all those upgrades then he will be broken as all ****. So yeah, Dash should be the first competitive 1 ship list in my opinion.

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10 minutes ago, CerberusUC said:

Honestly, if Dash can take Gunner (Luke to give force tokens for mods and always accurate arcs), crew (Casian to give him extra arc dodging ability), EPT (Trickshot, and there is no way he doesn't have an ept), and the outrider title (black one title, old kanan crew, and blackout's ability all rolled into one; plus the wording on tactical scrambler implies that ships obstruct attacks now, meaning that the title would trigger even more often), then I honestly think that he should be costed near 200 points fully loaded out. You are looking at 4 attack dice (probably 5 with obstructions), that can strip target locks, stress, and ion by flying through obstacles that have no effect on him, and remove your defensive benefits from the obstacles. Oh and with Casian and Luke gunner combo you can very likely dodge any and all arc-locked ships while still having shots on them. And to top it all off you no longer have a donut hole for ships to escape your wrath and you still have your action and likely a force tokens to mod your dice.

If you can take any other ships alongside him with all those upgrades then he will be broken as all ****. So yeah, Dash should be the first competitive 1 ship list in my opinion.

If he had Ghost-levels of health, I'd be inclined to agree. As it stands, I think Dash's success hangs on how good a wingman he can bring. Luke or Corran with R2-D2 will likely work. 

I don't see Dash using Luke as a gunner if he could instead have him in his X-Wing, though, and Seasoned Navigator will be superior to Cassian.

Edited by StriderZessei

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39 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I already liked the reddit post, great work! Not sure I agree on Luke and seasoned navigator. I expect 2 focus tokens to be better.

Anyway, cost-wise we know that

  • Dash is 98
  • Outrider is 12
  • Lone Wolf is 5

And I guess:

  • Trickshot to be less than 5, maybe around 2
  • the Gunners have so far all been exceptionally expensive (30 Luke, 14(?) Ezra)
    • even if Bistan/Hotshot don't reach that much, they might be as expensive as 8-10 points
  • Perceptive and Navigator could be around 5

That means your LW Dash will be around 135-140 points (that's almost like a fully loaded Ghost!). Tricky Dash is maybe around 125 (like a RAC or FatHan today!)

So both builds will have to do a lot of work!

Thanks! I've always held your opinions in high esteem, so that means a lot. 

Yeah, I agree that 2 focus will likely be better, but that's dependent on getting that focus action. 

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2 minutes ago, StriderZessei said:

If he had Ghost-levels of health, I'd be inclined to agree. As it stands, I think Dash's success hangs on how good a wingman he can bring. Luke or Corran with R2-D2 will likely work. 

He does have ghost levels of health... 10 health base, each evade dice is typically equal to about 2 health (before mods) so +4 puts him at 14, so just below the ghost. And the extra evade dice he will usually have adds an additional +2 to our theoretical equation, and I would say target lock stripping is arguably worth something as well.

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3 minutes ago, CerberusUC said:

He does have ghost levels of health... 10 health base, each evade dice is typically equal to about 2 health (before mods) so +4 puts him at 14, so just below the ghost. And the extra evade dice he will usually have adds an additional +2 to our theoretical equation, and I would say target lock stripping is arguably worth something as well.

For sure, but I'm still not 100% convinced Dash could survive something like a TIE swarm with the new stress-giving crew. Really excited to try though! 

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34 minutes ago, CerberusUC said:

then I honestly think that he should be costed near 200 points fully loaded out.

Dash, LukeGunner, Outrider, Crew, Trickshot and maybe more will amount to over 150 points (Dash, LG and outrider are already 140!). The only good rebel ship we currently have to be played next to that is Fenn/Strezra. Just to illustrate what we‘re talking about, of course it can‘t be taken 1:1 from 1.0.

That means to me that eg LukeGunner will be the difference between a worthy wingman and a large initiative bid. Because a 130pt Dash or slightly less can have a proper ace next to him. Traditionally the rebel aces are more expensive (around 40pt) compared to the 35 of Imps. But at least a good Jake should be possible. Again, we don‘t know whether that remains the same anyway. But we do know that Dash needs a wingman.

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Outrider, Lone Wolf, Perceptive Copilot, & Bistan would be the combo I'd start with in hopes to save points from taking Luke gunner. What's better than 4 dice shot? How about 2 of them? 

Edited by RStan

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10 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I already liked the reddit post, great work! Not sure I agree on Luke and seasoned navigator. I expect 2 focus tokens to be better.

Anyway, cost-wise we know that

  • Dash is 98
  • Outrider is 12
  • Lone Wolf is 5

And I guess:

  • Trickshot to be less than 5, maybe around 2
  • the Gunners have so far all been exceptionally expensive (30 Luke, 14(?) Ezra)
    • even if Bistan/Hotshot don't reach that much, they might be as expensive as 8-10 points
  • Perceptive and Navigator could be around 5

That means your LW Dash will be around 135-140 points (that's almost like a fully loaded Ghost!). Tricky Dash is maybe around 125 (like a RAC or FatHan today!)

So both builds will have to do a lot of work!

Bistan might actually be as much as Ezra or just a a point or two cheaper. Being able to attack again at a ship in any arc, including the one you just shot in, is significant. Yes, you still can't attack the same ship twice but this will be good on any turret ship and can up damage potential for ships with single turret arcs.

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51 minutes ago, Ixidor said:

Bistan might actually be as much as Ezra or just a a point or two cheaper. Being able to attack again at a ship in any arc, including the one you just shot in, is significant. Yes, you still can't attack the same ship twice but this will be good on any turret ship and can up damage potential for ships with single turret arcs.

Bistan cannot shoot at the same ship twice. 

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1 hour ago, StriderZessei said:

Bistan cannot shoot at the same ship twice. 

I literally said that in my comment.

The advantage is being able to shoot out of the same arc twice. So ships with only a single-turret-arc get a strong advantage out of him that ships with double-turret-arcs don't.

There's some situations where a ship can get two shots on the same ship but they're rare. The HWK-290 with the Moldy Crow or the Lancer could potentially get a ship in both forward arc and a turret arc. That's the closest to this, I believe.

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13 minutes ago, Ixidor said:

I literally said that in my comment.

The advantage is being able to shoot out of the same arc twice. So ships with only a single-turret-arc get a strong advantage out of him that ships with double-turret-arcs don't.

There's some situations where a ship can get two shots on the same ship but they're rare. The HWK-290 with the Moldy Crow or the Lancer could potentially get a ship in both forward arc and a turret arc. That's the closest to this, I believe.

You're right, I missed the second part of your statement. Sleep deprivation is a terrible thing.

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Bistan is sharply limited by his focus requirement, which is obviously least restrictive on Dash but still means you can't do anything other than focus and have Bistan trigger

No b-roll, no rotate, nada. Just focus.

Which is why I personally have higher hopes for a perceptive Bistan Fringer than anything. If we're locked to focus, we might as well just get the cheapest version of the biggest gun available 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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23 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Bistan is sharply limited by his focus requirement, which is obviously least restrictive on Dash but still means you can't do anything other than focus and have Bistan trigger

No b-roll, no rotate, nada. Just focus.

Which is why I personally have higher hopes for a perceptive Bistan Fringer than anything. If we're locked to focus, we might as well just get the cheapest version of the biggest gun available 

Fenn Rau support with Chewie and R2D2 could help. 

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On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 8:36 AM, RStan said:

Outrider, Lone Wolf, Perceptive Copilot, & Bistan would be the combo I'd start with in hopes to save points from taking Luke gunner. What's better than 4 dice shot? How about 2 of them? 

If he has a copilot and Bistan, is he really a lone wolf?  Deep thoughts...

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On 6/11/2018 at 11:32 AM, StriderZessei said:

Let's start with what we know.

I kinda hate everything about 2.0 Dash so I'm not going to add to what I think is a good build, but I would like to add that Elusive is not an option for the Outrider as its limited to small and medium ships now.

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16 hours ago, BVRCH said:

I kinda hate everything about 2.0 Dash so I'm not going to add to what I think is a good build, but I would like to add that Elusive is not an option for the Outrider as its limited to small and medium ships now.

I can't believe I missed that! Thanks! 

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