My Argument against the Father, Son, Daughter

[Archlyte 1,227]

13 hours ago, Daeglan said:

I dont think theu contrain anything. They are just powerful force spirits that were in a pocket dimension for a while.

Dont interpret them as somentruth. They are falible.

Well, let me explain what I mean by that. I am saying that by giving something formless a form you are essentially to some degree reducing possibilities. So even though I can choose to ignore the Mortis stuff, the image is still there and I'm likely to run into again when someone makes a FaD character. Instead of going with whatever cool idea they might have had before now their thinking is at least somewhat influenced (not in a brainwashing kind of way) by the information in the mortis episodes. Also I took them to be symbols, and not the explanation that was given for them, because symbols are more powerful than specific cases even though we need specific cases to be able to consume the symbol. I just don't see how you throw up symbols that powerful and go .. eh it's whatever. I think the writers probably thought they really had something there. 

[Daeglan 5,950]

Well except you seem to be buying that they are the Force. I think that is like accepting the Goa'uld as gods.

[Stan Fresh 2,465]

5 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Well except you seem to be buying that they are the Force. I think that is like accepting the Goa'uld as gods.

I'd say it's even more like thinking that everyone playing a Force-sensitive character will give a crap about Midichlorians.

People are perfectly capable of not pulling in every single bit of canon when creating and playing characters.

[Archlyte 1,227]

8 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Well except you seem to be buying that they are the Force. I think that is like accepting the Goa'uld as gods.

I don't even know what that is lol

 

[Archlyte 1,227]

2 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

I'd say it's even more like thinking that everyone playing a Force-sensitive character will give a crap about Midichlorians.

People are perfectly capable of not pulling in every single bit of canon when creating and playing characters.

Did I say that? Because if I did it wasn't my intention. I am just looking at a story element and asking if it was a good idea. 

[Stan Fresh 2,465]

6 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

Did I say that?

Yes.

"So even though I can choose to ignore the Mortis stuff, the image is still there and I'm likely to run into again when someone makes a FaD character. Instead of going with whatever cool idea they might have had before now their thinking is at least somewhat influenced (not in a brainwashing kind of way) by the information in the mortis episodes."

[Archlyte 1,227]

1 minute ago, Stan Fresh said:

Yes.

"So even though I can choose to ignore the Mortis stuff, the image is still there and I'm likely to run into again when someone makes a FaD character. Instead of going with whatever cool idea they might have had before now their thinking is at least somewhat influenced (not in a brainwashing kind of way) by the information in the mortis episodes."

Fair enough, I am saying there not that it isn't ignorable, but that it has to be ignored which to me is the worse case than not being there in the first place. I imagine people ignore stuff in the setting all the time, and I do if it's outright bad in my estimation, but this was a topic I had to think about for a while. That means that it remains something to be ignored, or maybe discussed. 

[Tramp Graphics 2,328]

Just now, Archlyte said:

Fair enough, I am saying there not that it isn't ignorable, but that it has to be ignored which to me is the worse case than not being there in the first place. I imagine people ignore stuff in the setting all the time, and I do if it's outright bad in my estimation, but this was a topic I had to think about for a while. That means that it remains something to be ignored, or maybe discussed. 

The thing is that it doesn't "have to" be ignored. it can be if you chose to, but there are those of us who actually like these elements. we don't "have to" ignore them. It's a choice. 

[Archlyte 1,227]

1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

The thing is that it doesn't "have to" be ignored. it can be if you chose to, but there are those of us who actually like these elements. we don't "have to" ignore them. It's a choice. 

Was there anything recorded ever in a sourcebook, comic book, tv show, etc. that you didn't like and absorb into your vast lexicon of Star Wars Lore?

 

[Tramp Graphics 2,328]

1 minute ago, Archlyte said:

Was there anything recorded ever in a sourcebook, comic book, tv show, etc. that you didn't like and absorb into your vast lexicon of Star Wars Lore?

 

Nope. 

[Archlyte 1,227]

1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Nope. 

Well then this is an alien idea to you: Discernment. As an audience member you have the right to say "I don't like this" or "That's not so good" and it's fine. There is no harm in not liking something others like, or vice versa. If you like it then great, and to be honest if it never happened you wouldn't miss it. But because you are obliged to like everything then its absence would have been fine to you too. 

[Tramp Graphics 2,328]

15 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

Well then this is an alien idea to you: Discernment. As an audience member you have the right to say "I don't like this" or "That's not so good" and it's fine. There is no harm in not liking something others like, or vice versa. If you like it then great, and to be honest if it never happened you wouldn't miss it. But because you are obliged to like everything then its absence would have been fine to you too. 

I’m not obliged to like it all, I just do like it all. There’s a difference. 

[TheSapient 596]

7 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

I'd say it's even more like thinking that everyone playing a Force-sensitive character will give a crap about Midichlorians.

People are perfectly capable of not pulling in every single bit of canon when creating and playing characters.

And honestly, how would a PC even know about these ancient force users?  They shouldn't even know the Emperor is a Sith Lord in most campaigns.

[Archlyte 1,227]

9 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I’m not obliged to like it all, I just do like it all. There’s a difference. 

How do you know? You said your self you like every single thing that they come out with, and said there are no exceptions. So if I get myself a job as a writer for Lucasfilm I too can create holy writings that you will accept and I am just as mortal as the writers who do create this stuff. 

The fact that nothing gets rejected by you makes me feel like you aren't the person to ask about this stuff. If I want to know what they wrote or created you are the guy to go to, but not for any kind of judgment on something because you will always say it's fine. I'm not trying to be funny or rude with this either, just pointing out that to you its always good no matter what it is. 

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Archlyte

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

6 hours ago, TheSapient said:

And honestly, how would a PC even know about these ancient force users?

Given how much focus F&D has on the PCs searching for and unearthing various bits of Force lore, both ancient and recent, it's entirely possible they could come across the Mortis Trio as part of their searches, even if it's simply obscure folklore from remote regions of the galaxy.

But otherwise, I'd agree that most PCs wouldn't have a clue about them.

[TheSapient 596]

5 hours ago, Archlyte said:

How do you know? You said your self you like every single thing that they come out with, and said there are no exceptions. So if I get myself a job as a writer for Lucasfilm I too can create holy writings that you will accept and I am just as mortal as the writers who do create this stuff. 

The fact that nothing gets rejected by you makes me feel like you aren't the person to ask about this stuff. If I want to know what they wrote or created you are the guy to go to, but not for any kind of judgment on something because you will always say it's fine. I'm not trying to be funny or rude with this either, just pointing out that to you its always good no matter what it is. 

 

Please just stop.

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

34 minutes ago, TheSapient said:

Please just stop.

@Archlyte this is good advice, as Tramp has proven time and again that logic and sensible reasoning are alien concepts to him.

You're better off just not engaging him at all, or better still adding him to your Ignore list.  Your sanity will thank you for it.

[Nytwyng 5,759]

6 hours ago, Archlyte said:

How do you know? You said your self you like every single thing that they come out with, and said there are no exceptions. So if I get myself a job as a writer for Lucasfilm I too can create holy writings that you will accept and I am just as mortal as the writers who do create this stuff. 

The fact that nothing gets rejected by you makes me feel like you aren't the person to ask about this stuff. If I want to know what they wrote or created you are the guy to go to, but not for any kind of judgment on something because you will always say it's fine. I'm not trying to be funny or rude with this either, just pointing out that to you its always good no matter what it is. 

 

Do you ever not talk down to someone who doesn’t share your views?

[TheSapient 596]

2 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Given how much focus F&D has on the PCs searching for and unearthing various bits of Force lore, both ancient and recent, it's entirely possible they could come across the Mortis Trio as part of their searches, even if it's simply obscure folklore from remote regions of the galaxy.

But otherwise, I'd agree that most PCs wouldn't have a clue about them.

Fair point.  I would imagine at most tables this would be a GM driven plot point, so a GM who isn't interested in this aspect of SW lore just wouldn't include it in the game.  I suppose a player might straight up ask if their PC knew anything about Mortis, which should prompt a (very difficult) knowledge roll.

[Orjo Creld 224]

Now this is only a legend, geez I miss GL

[Stan Fresh 2,465]

18 minutes ago, Orjo Creld said:

Now this is only a legend, geez I miss GL

Huh? The Clone Wars and Rebels are both canon. They're considered as real as the movies by the people making all of them.

[Archlyte 1,227]

6 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

@Archlyte this is good advice, as Tramp has proven time and again that logic and sensible reasoning are alien concepts to him.

You're better off just not engaging him at all, or better still adding him to your Ignore list.  Your sanity will thank you for it.

Yes  sadly I added the guy you responded to and put Stan back on as I see nothing has changed there either. As for Tramp I do respect his knowledge of what is put down in the various wiki entries, but I honestly was commenting on the fact that if you like everything then there is no discussion (and actually I envy those who like everything). Thanks for engaging on topic Donovan. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Archlyte

[Archlyte 1,227]

I feel like they let Filoni do his thing because he is an old school guy in the company, and the kids series he has done have been popular across age groups (because Star Wars).  Meanwhile, Pablo, while having supreme knowledge, seems like he knows where his bread is buttered and the story group just beats him into submission. He of all people should have put a stop to this idea or at least forced them to have it be only a dream sequence without the object from the dream in hand upon waking. 

The Mortis storyline and its later remnants in Rebels are the staff writers looking to expand on a theme that was not defined but was present in the original material. The idea of a fantasy Arthurian type feel was so good because it was achieved without a lot of "see this is like Merlin!" type stuff. Tolerating uncertainty is maybe one of the hardest things to do but it's rewards are sublime. 

[Daeglan 5,950]

On 6/11/2018 at 1:29 PM, Archlyte said:

Well, let me explain what I mean by that. I am saying that by giving something formless a form you are essentially to some degree reducing possibilities. So even though I can choose to ignore the Mortis stuff, the image is still there and I'm likely to run into again when someone makes a FaD character. Instead of going with whatever cool idea they might have had before now their thinking is at least somewhat influenced (not in a brainwashing kind of way) by the information in the mortis episodes. Also I took them to be symbols, and not the explanation that was given for them, because symbols are more powerful than specific cases even though we need specific cases to be able to consume the symbol. I just don't see how you throw up symbols that powerful and go .. eh it's whatever. I think the writers probably thought they really had something there. 

You keep assuming the give the formless form. I am saying they are just powerful force spirits. They are not the lightside, or the darkside or balance. Just because they make that claim does not make it so.

[Archlyte 1,227]

2 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

You keep assuming the give the formless form. I am saying they are just powerful force spirits. They are not the lightside, or the darkside or balance. Just because they make that claim does not make it so.

Yeah that's a good point. I guess my original point is ameliorated by the fact that they are as you describe them.