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TylerTT

Hey FFG why not just let us know the content in the conversion boxes are and your reasoning behind that.

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Why not? This is marketing 101. The product isn't set to release until September. Holding things back in order to dribble them out over the next few months helps keep the hype going. Unveiling everything now means the hype dies down before the product releases, whereas doing it this way lets them build up the hype over time to lead up to the release.

They aren't trying to conceal things from you in order to fool you into pre-ordering. If anything, the main issue is that they told us about 2.0 at all this early, but that decision was basically forced on them by the decision to include 2.0 content in Wave XIV (which was the correct decision, IMO).

If you feel you need to know what's in the package before buying, then don't pre-order and wait to buy until you know what's in the package. There's nothing wrong with doing that. (For the record, I've never pre-ordered any X-Wing products, myself, though it's mostly because I'm still catching up on previous waves...)

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19 hours ago, Azrapse said:

A responsible customer wouldn't buy (or preorder) anything without actually knowing what they are buying (except for those blind booster pack games, of course).

Pre-ordered* day after announcement as

1. If I was responsible I wouldn’t even play X-Wing.  It’s a frivolous activity that I have fun with.  I’m not buying a new car

2. I’d made my mind up months before the announcement that if second edition came along I was in as long as there were conversion kits

*one core, one Imperial conversion kit.  Will also be getting the First Order and Epic kits once available.  If I can’t run something with one kit it’s tough luck.

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6 hours ago, Tvboy said:

Except that Maul is now a $50 card for the faction that he originally came in.

I guess that’s not as bad as being a $15 card for scum.  But hey it came with a chunk of plastic that LOOKED like it should have been scum...

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I pre-ordered it all for a few reasons.

1) I get all the cards all at once. No waiting for a ship release to get the card in it.

2) I feel I have enough ships of each from faction to enjoy the game. The last few waves and Resistence/FO ships don't interest me at all.

3) There are ships from each faction, which I own, that I want to fly. Therefore getting the kits allows me to fly everything I want from day one.

 

FFG has everything cardwise done for the three factions. They will look at the models and decide to update them or not on the re-release.

The punchboards will need to be laid out probably.

So, I will be set from day one and probably not buy another ship.

v1 cards will still be used for HOTAC and such. We are now using Scum ships and replaying the HOTAC scenarios. 

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I pre ordered the core because my FLGS said they'd get the promo decks. May or may not pre order any expansions. but planning on at least getting an imperial one. not sure. may just buy individual ships again. may try to sell old models. no idea what I'm doing. But I'm playing 2ndE. that much I know.

Edited by PanchoX1

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12 hours ago, Freeptop said:

Why not? This is marketing 101. The product isn't set to release until September. Holding things back in order to dribble them out over the next few months helps keep the hype going. Unveiling everything now means the hype dies down before the product releases, whereas doing it this way lets them build up the hype over time to lead up to the release.

They aren't trying to conceal things from you in order to fool you into pre-ordering. If anything, the main issue is that they told us about 2.0 at all this early, but that decision was basically forced on them by the decision to include 2.0 content in Wave XIV (which was the correct decision, IMO).

If you feel you need to know what's in the package before buying, then don't pre-order and wait to buy until you know what's in the package. There's nothing wrong with doing that. (For the record, I've never pre-ordered any X-Wing products, myself, though it's mostly because I'm still catching up on previous waves...)

Umm holding back solid count numbers is dumb, I could care less about individual pilot skills, upgrade cards, pretty much anything else and could have been happily surprised. The number of old ships this thing accurately converts shouldn’t be a hype surprise. I mean seriously look at the backlash that not revealing this caused also look at the backlash revealing certain other cards has caused. Your strategy of never preordering may work for you and thats great but if no one preordered anything you’d have massive product shortages at launch, look at destiny. Then how many people rage quit because it was months after launch before anyone not pulling the trigger could get anything. 1st world problems I know but when you preorder you risk how good the game will be not risk can I even use this. 

 

That said I did feel and justifiably feel now that buying multiples of these is foolish and pretty much only helps flood the market with pieces very few will need.

Edited by LordFajubi

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21 hours ago, LordBlades said:

FFG said there won't be a need to buy another faction's ships for cards. What they never said however is that cards will be available for al factions at the same time. It's entirely possible for Rebels to get a great card now, and Empire and Scum to get it 2-3 waves down the line without breaking FFGs promise. 

 

 

If they're intending to delay the release for some factions than it's not a change in practice. 

 

By far the most sensible solution is to simply include at least 1 (probably exactly 1) copy of every new non-faction specific upgrade in every pack released in the same wave. That way they retain the incentive to buy multiple packs per wave as you'll want enough of the cards to go around, but there will not be a need to buy a specific pack to get any card. The only down side tehre is they either need to accept that sometimes a pack will contain an upgrade that the ship in the pack can't use, or to organize waves around ships with similar upgrade options. However as it's now posible for what upgrades a ship can take to be format specific or changed after release for balancing I expect the former makes more sense. 

 

Another not mutually exclusive option is to include a smaller wave specific pack that includes the new upgrade cards, and possible dials and otehr bits for the 1.0 ships re-released in the wave. 

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9 minutes ago, Turtlewing said:

If they're intending to delay the release for some factions than it's not a change in practice. 

 

Yet, it appears they have no issue doing that with Legion. AFAIK Legion had a similar promise at launch (that you don't need both factions for cards) and there is at least one card that has yet to appear in a Rebel pack. 

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10 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

Yet, it appears they have no issue doing that with Legion. AFAIK Legion had a similar promise at launch (that you don't need both factions for cards) and there is at least one card that has yet to appear in a Rebel pack. 

Rule 1

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I thought we knew how many ships a conversion kit converts.

It is on a list under the FAQ.

I think they are doing fine so far as it is still 3 months till launch.

Watching the demos gives me enough info on the new system to buy in.

It also lets me know I am pretty much done with getting new ships as the old ones are tweaked to be usable again.

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52 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

Umm holding back solid count numbers is dumb, I could care less about individual pilot skills, upgrade cards, pretty much anything else and could have been happily surprised. The number of old ships this thing accurately converts shouldn’t be a hype surprise. I mean seriously look at the backlash that not revealing this caused also look at the backlash revealing certain other cards has caused. Your strategy of never preordering may work for you and thats great but if no one preordered anything you’d have massive product shortages at launch, look at destiny. Then how many people rage quit because it was months after launch before anyone not pulling the trigger could get anything. 1st world problems I know but when you preorder you risk how good the game will be not risk can I even use this. 

 

That said I did feel and justifiably feel now that buying multiples of these is foolish and pretty much only helps flood the market with pieces very few will need.

They did tell us how many dials would be present for each ship, so "the number of old ships this thing accurately converts" isn't an issue. The number of each pilot card (specifically as it pertains to generics) is something that really only a small subset of their customers is even worried about 3 months ahead of release, and revealing pilots is something that they hype.

Can you use your existing ships with the conversion kit? Up to the number of dials provided per ship, yes. Are you guaranteed to get a number of each generic pilot to match the number of dials? No guarantee of that, and they never promised that you would.

If having the new waves as soon as they release is important to you, then by all means, pre-order. I would do the same under different circumstances. You are making a decision between whether it's more important to have all the info before you purchase (via pre-order), or whether you are guaranteed to have the product on day one of release (not pre-ordering). Which choice you make is up to you. (In any case, you'll still be able to pre-order after GenCon when we'll inevitably get all the info anyway, so there's still a chance to have your cake and eat it, too).

In any case, my original point stands - this isn't something they are doing to deliberately deceive you. They just have a different point of view as to what info is important to release early than you do. As it turns out, these forums are not actually a good judge of the overall market. We're a minority of the customer base, and even those of us who are casual players are more hardcore than the majority of their market (just by getting on these forums in the first place, we're more intensely interested in the product than most).

When it comes to product shortages, there's also a big difference between a brand new product that wasn't a guaranteed success, and a refresh of an existing successful product line. The first printing of X-Wing 2.0 (core and conversion kits, anyway) is going to be comparable to a print run of any 1.0 X-Wing release, rather than the "we don't know if people will actually like this game, so play it conservatively" print run they used initially for Destiny. They might go a little lighter on the X-Wing, Y-Wing, TIE/ln and TIE Advanced packs, simply because they expect a large chunk of their market to already own the models for those, and buy the conversion kits instead, but somehow I doubt you're worried about those SKUs running out.

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3 minutes ago, Freeptop said:

 

Too long a post to rehash but I did want to thank you for an adult discussion instead of raging, rare these days. I didn’t think they were intentially deceiving but I do find that information more valuable than they do. I find their wording poor on certain things be it announcements or game mechanics.

Also I do see this as maybe not a completely new game but close enough that many 1.0ers are refusing to embrace it, either for money, mechanics, app use, what have you so I do see this launch as a hybrid of edition change and total new experience. I am very much a person that likes to plan purchases and being on a budget I much prefer to get these things when I have the money to do so and know it’s safely on the way (usually) and not think about it again till it’s in my hands. That does mean I tend to research aggressively as much as I can.

Lord it took me about 3 weeks to fully commit to my last computer purchase trying to squeeze every last bit of value I could out of it because it’s not something I can easily replace. This game has a saying, “mistakes were made” and boy howdy did I live that in 1.0. Would love to not repeat that in 2.0. This forgetting the past nonsense is a fools plan, I at least try to learn from my mistakes but at minimum never forget them. ?

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31 minutes ago, robert t said:

I thought we knew how many ships a conversion kit converts.

It is on a list under the FAQ.

I think they are doing fine so far as it is still 3 months till launch.

Watching the demos gives me enough info on the new system to buy in.

It also lets me know I am pretty much done with getting new ships as the old ones are tweaked to be usable again.

It lists the dials only! The number of generic pilot cards in the kit does not match the ships and the total configuration of the base tokens are unknown.

Edited by TylerTT

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4 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

Too long a post to rehash but I did want to thank you for an adult discussion instead of raging, rare these days.

I try to follow a simple rule on raging: I type out the post. Read it over a few times. Then delete it without posting it.

Sometimes I fail at that last part... but most of the time I succeed. I find I get better discussions that way :)

 

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okay, I see.

I would think they will include one each of specific pilots and 2 each od generics.

This is based on the unboxing and how they open the deck packs when looking for their favorite pilot/upgrade.

The cardboard is different though. I see roughly 17 circles per sheet and you need 2 sheets for one complete dial. (front and back)

I haven't slowed the unboxing down yet to get a better look.

 

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15 hours ago, Freeptop said:

Why not? This is marketing 101. The product isn't set to release until September. Holding things back in order to dribble them out over the next few months helps keep the hype going. Unveiling everything now means the hype dies down before the product releases, whereas doing it this way lets them build up the hype over time to lead up to the release.

They aren't trying to conceal things from you in order to fool you into pre-ordering. If anything, the main issue is that they told us about 2.0 at all this early, but that decision was basically forced on them by the decision to include 2.0 content in Wave XIV (which was the correct decision, IMO).

If you feel you need to know what's in the package before buying, then don't pre-order and wait to buy until you know what's in the package. There's nothing wrong with doing that. (For the record, I've never pre-ordered any X-Wing products, myself, though it's mostly because I'm still catching up on previous waves...)

This guy markets.

I mean, just look at the buzz a 36 second video showing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING generated last night for ES VI. You don't need to blow your whole load and reveal everything to get people excited. In fact, its usually best not to. 

But seriously, they are slowly releasing more and more news. we have been getting 2-3 articles a week between spoilers and OP.  They also did a massive unboxing spoiling 60+% of the cards in the kit. All in all they are doing a great job IMO. I am sure you will know complete contents long before you need to to make an informed purchasing decision.

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2 hours ago, Timathius said:

This guy markets.

YOU SHUT YOUR FILTHY MOU...

Oh, wait, that wasn't meant as an insult. Sorry, reflexive response from this engineer... :)

(I'm mostly just old, and have the experience that goes with having had to know more about how businesses run than I'd like).

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On 6/10/2018 at 12:17 PM, wurms said:

wdl90lho1c211.jpg

So, given how long this has been posted, nobody's going to talk about how the kit apparently contains seven X-Wings and five HWK-290s, with the implication being that there is one ship token that is both for an HWK and an X-Wing?

Are we not talking about that? Because that's going to completely screw with my OCD. I try to keep my X-Wings and HWK ship tokens separate. Having one ship token for two different ships is pretty much the worst thing that's ever happened in history.

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30 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

So, given how long this has been posted, nobody's going to talk about how the kit apparently contains seven X-Wings and five HWK-290s, with the implication being that there is one ship token that is both for an HWK and an X-Wing?

Are we not talking about that? Because that's going to completely screw with my OCD. I try to keep my X-Wings and HWK ship tokens separate. Having one ship token for two different ships is pretty much the worst thing that's ever happened in history.

I think you're looking at Ship Cards, which most people call "Pilot Cards," but that's actually not the right term. You are thinking of Ship Tokens, which many people call "bases," which is also misleading, because bases are the plastic things that the Ship Tokens sit on top of. From the list in the link, we have no way of knowing how many of each Ship Token we will get, nor do we know how they will be presented front-to-back. Lots of good guesses here on the forums, but we just don't know for sure. We do, however, know for certain how many cards we will be getting for each ship, including 2 copies of Phoenix Squadron Pilot, which makes a lot of people crazy because they won't have enough of those to match each dial. I was incensed at first, but I'm calming down. I'll work with what I get for the Galactic Empire.

EDIT: Reread your post. I think I mistook what you said, but I think it highly unlikely that we will get two different ships on one token. More likely, we get a Jan/Kyle; Kyle/Scout; Roark/Scout, or something like that.

Edited by Parakitor

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39 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

So, given how long this has been posted, nobody's going to talk about how the kit apparently contains seven X-Wings and five HWK-290s, with the implication being that there is one ship token that is both for an HWK and an X-Wing?

Are we not talking about that? Because that's going to completely screw with my OCD. I try to keep my X-Wings and HWK ship tokens separate. Having one ship token for two different ships is pretty much the worst thing that's ever happened in history.

Those are ship cards, 84 in total. There is actually only 43 ship tokens. Which means 41 double sided ship tokens With like Biggs/Red Squadron Veteran and that equals 82 ship cards. Then you will have two more tokens most likely an Xwing and a HWK that have the same pilot on both sides ala rebel Nym in 1.0. Like  Jan Ors and Wedge. That will give us 84 ship cards and 43 tokens.

EDIT: Or they just throw an extra generic on the sides with Jan and Wedge with no extra ship cards?

Edited by wurms

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On 6/10/2018 at 7:47 AM, Stoneface said:

While marketing works for Asmodee they better consider their player base or 2E will be very short lived.

If they are so tight fisted that they don't include enough generics pilots you may see a player revolt.

 

They've been cornholing players since the start with a "Buy more stuff to do gooder" format the entire lifespan of the game.  Why would players care now?  You always had to buy a ton of ships you didn't need to get pieces of cardstock you did need.  The average championship list was a few hundred dollars worth of models, 75-80% weren't actually on the table.

Now you think players will revolt because they have to buy an extra conversion kit?  Excuse me why I chuckle.

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3 hours ago, Freeptop said:

YOU SHUT YOUR FILTHY MOU...

Oh, wait, that wasn't meant as an insult. Sorry, reflexive response from this engineer... :)

(I'm mostly just old, and have the experience that goes with having had to know more about how businesses run than I'd like).

Ah, you sound like you've had to explain to a few clients why what the marketing department claimed/offered isn't quite possible....

 

:D

Image result for star wars gif that's not how it works

 

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