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I got into ANR when the revised core came out, bought creation and control, terminal directive then went forward with kitara cycle. Loved the game. After watching the Boggs interviews on team covenant and hearing how Boggs wanted to move the game forward I feel cheated. They knew the contract was up, so have they just chucked out a revised core, a cycle to get a few more bucks out fans of the game before they lose it. I love the game, but it's dead now. I don't play anything else so giving it all up. If I was to play another game where do you start? Buying stuff from previous cycles or waves, just for it all to end like netrunner at the drop of a hat.

I'd want to start a new LCG from scratch, but nothing in the pipeline that we no of so my hobby allowence money will go elsewhere.

Gutted

Edited by Bradders77

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1 hour ago, Bradders77 said:

I got into ANR when the revised core came out, bought creation and control, terminal directive then went forward with kitara cycle. Loved the game. After watching the Boggs interviews on team covenant and hearing how Boggs wanted to move the game forward I feel cheated. They knew the contract was up, so have they just chucked out a revised core, a cycle to get a few more bucks out fans of the game before they lose it. I love the game, but it's dead now. I don't play anything else so giving it all up. If I was to play another game where do you start? Buying stuff from previous cycles or waves, just for it all to end like netrunner at the drop of a hat.

I'd want to start a new LCG from scratch, but nothing in the pipeline that we no of so my hobby allowence money will go elsewhere.

Gutted

I feel you.  I've been with ANR from the start and while it had its ups and downs, nothing else came close in a card game.  I also feel like the rug has been pulled out but no surprise based on FFG's track record of horrible communication to their player base.  

I've owned both AGOT and L5R and IMHO they are mediocre games at best when placed against ANR.  At least FFG owns the license to L5R but then the release cycle ruined the game in our area.  

I guess there's still a very slim chance that WOTC may pick it up since Lukas Litzinger is there now but I highly doubt it when they have the MTG cash cow.  

I'll still play FFG board games but no more CCGs/LCGs for me.

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1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

Well in this case I am just going to play with ALL NETRUNNER CARDS. Parasite included. No need for 2.0.

After just 1 cycle and 1 deluxe expansion, there will not be so many broken combos. Especially when playing casually. I'll do exactly the same put everything all together and and create fun and quirky decks ^^

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Well they clearly acted as if they would probably renew the license. Sadly it is a business decision. Either that license is worth paying for or it is not. They saw the decline in the player base, tried out 2.0 to see how it would change things, ran the numbers and decide the license wasn't worth the cost. Revised core failed the change the numbers, which is odd since it sold out. Would have been great if they released intro decks along side the revised core and gave new people an easy gate way into the game.

Yeah, I put a lot of money into this game too. Netrunner here has died out. Rather upsetting. Going to try out Arkham horror. At least there is no licensing problems there.

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Do you even hear yourself? “It sold out” and “failed to change the numbers” in the same breath. The new Core Set was making the game grow at a rate that hadn’t been seen in years. But no, you have to live in your anti-fantasy world where everything is terrible. The rest of us live in the real world, where the Revised Core Set was a demonstrably good entry point and was bringing new players into the game.

 

WOTC didn’t renew the license, plain and simple. We don’t know anything about the decisions, so for you to say “they decided it wasn’t worth it” is just talking out of your ***. As always.

Edited by Grimwalker

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51 minutes ago, Grimwalker said:

Do you even hear yourself? “It sold out” and “failed to change the numbers” in the same breath. The new Core Set was making the game grow at a rate that hadn’t been seen in years. But no, you have to live in your anti-fantasy world where everything is terrible. The rest of us live in the real world, where the Revised Core Set was a demonstrably good entry point and was bringing new players into the game.

 

WOTC didn’t renew the license, plain and simple. We don’t know anything about the decisions, so for you to say “they decided it wasn’t worth it” is just talking out of your ***. As always.

That is your opinion and does not reflect the reality of today. If the money was there, that license gets renewed. Reality - it wasn't. Whatever the game grow was or wasn't it ended up being such that the game is now over. Maybe the game did grow where you are it but it sure didn't grow here or enough else where to justify renewal. They have numbers from around the world, number of game store that dropped their product, new customer acquisition or lack there of, carry over to additional product sales. All that math goes into the decision. Grimwalker's opinion of how well the game was doing in his little area isn't in that equation.

Sorry our game died. I saw this one coming and voiced my concern about what is coming if they couldn't change things, or as you put it, "anti-fantasy world where everything is terrible". Could call it what it really is - reality. It is what it is. Sorry you diluted yourself into thinking things were better than they were.

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11 hours ago, Markspinner said:

I feel you.  I've been with ANR from the start and while it had its ups and downs, nothing else came close in a card game.  I also feel like the rug has been pulled out but no surprise based on FFG's track record of horrible communication to their player base.  

I've owned both AGOT and L5R and IMHO they are mediocre games at best when placed against ANR.  At least FFG owns the license to L5R but then the release cycle ruined the game in our area.  

I guess there's still a very slim chance that WOTC may pick it up since Lukas Litzinger is there now but I highly doubt it when they have the MTG cash cow.  

I'll still play FFG board games but no more CCGs/LCGs for me.

I loved the original Netrunner, and love what FFG had done with ANR. No card game even comes close to Netrunner in terms of mechanics and theme (and the perfect union of the two).

But AGoT is the best card game I have ever played that isn't Netrunner. AGoT CCG was what brought me to FFG in the first place. ****, it brought me to the books all those years ago (strangely, I discovered the game and loved it, long before reading the books).

I love AGoT, here's hoping it won't suffer the same fate. But in this case, FFG probably owns the game mechanics. I would be just as happy if they changed the setting but kept the same game mechanics.

 

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13 hours ago, Memorare said:

L5r is pretty awesome and they own the rights. It's ok to be sad, but there is tons of other great games:) 

Is it good though?

At our local game store no-one plays it. Would I need x 3 cores and then all the packs to catch up, alot of money. I'm now sceptical about buying into any game after this.  I'm annoyed as it's the one social avenue I have that gets me away from everything and to do something I enjoy. They've killed that over night. Our local community was growing with ANR.....Feel cheated

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2 minutes ago, Bradders77 said:

Is it good though?

At our local game store no-one plays it. Would I need x 3 cores and then all the packs to catch up, alot of money. I'm now sceptical about buying into any game after this.  I'm annoyed as it's the one social avenue I have that gets me away from everything and to do something I enjoy. They've killed that over night. Our local community was growing with ANR.....Feel cheated

I think FFG is just as sad to see Netrunner die. It was their biggest LCG.  This is probably WotC's doing.

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9 hours ago, Mep said:

That is your opinion and does not reflect the reality of today. If the money was there, that license gets renewed. Reality - it wasn't. Whatever the game grow was or wasn't it ended up being such that the game is now over. Maybe the game did grow where you are it but it sure didn't grow here or enough else where to justify renewal. They have numbers from around the world, number of game store that dropped their product, new customer acquisition or lack there of, carry over to additional product sales. All that math goes into the decision. Grimwalker's opinion of how well the game was doing in his little area isn't in that equation.

Sorry our game died. I saw this one coming and voiced my concern about what is coming if they couldn't change things, or as you put it, "anti-fantasy world where everything is terrible". Could call it what it really is - reality. It is what it is. Sorry you diluted yourself into thinking things were better than they were.

Mep, you wouldn’t know reality if it punched you in the back of the head.

The Revised Core Set sold out in a hurry and had to get another print run. Metas were growing and tournament attendance was rising at every tier. I’m sorry that wasn’t the case wherever you are but you’re committing the fallacy of assuming your own experience is universal. My statements are based on reports from multiple tournaments, multiple player groups, as well as conversations I’ve had with the people at the company.

I know to a very high degree of certainty that this was not part of their business plan. I know that more product was intended to be in the business plan. But no, you’ve decided a priori that everything FFG does is terrible and it being their own fault for being bad at everything is the only scenario you accept. And you’re dishonestly stating it as fact.

WOTC didn’t renew the license for reasons of their own and the people at the company who worked on the game are devastated. 

 

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30 minutes ago, Grimwalker said:

WOTC didn’t renew the license for reasons of their own and the people at the company who worked on the game are devastated.

It would be nice to know if WotC wouldn't renew the license at all, vs FFG not paying the asking price for it. Obviously if the game isn't going to be making a clear profit after a deal to re-buy a license is taken into account, then fair enough. You can't blame FFG.

However, as I'm a new player and bought into Netrunner for the very first time last month with a couple of revised Core sets, followed by all 4 deluxe boxes, Terminal Directive, Kitara, Red Sand, Flashpoint and Mumbad - I'm a tad miffed the game won't have anything else new. I will however, continue to enjoy all the stuff I've bought, as a month in, we've (my wife and I) barely touched  on all the deck types possible.

Anyone know how long left FFG has on other licenses? eg X-Wing?

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Getting money for a licensing deal is the easiest money to make. Thinking this was Wizards that turned down free money is naive. FFG assumes all the risk, does all the development and production and all Wizards has to do is cash a check. Sure, Wizards could decline to renew the license, if someone was wanting to write them an even bigger check. I don't see anyone dishing out a big bucket of cash to make another netrunner card game nor would the suits at Wizards not cash a check and pass at a chance to help out their quarterly numbers. 

FFG is very reserved with their money. They clearly didn't print a lot of revised cores, no faith in the product, and may have very well made the call not to renew before the revised core hit the retail shelves. The omega symbol on R&R announced back in March points to this decision being made quite some time ago. It was the "notrunner" years that killed the game and the fact the game is old and doesn't have a good way of acquiring new customers. Games have a pretty good turn over rate and these LCG's just don't have a good entry point and the older they get, the worse the problem becomes. The Netrunner community knows this and came up with the 1.1.1.1 format for that reason. Of course, not enough people play that format for it to be a viable entry point.

The real killer may have been L5R. People jumped all over that. The game is new, which helps a lot, and the cost of entry was only 2-3 cores. FFG is clearly trying to figure out how to run LCGs in today's world. They are trying intro decks for GoT, dump release of packs for L5R. The experiment with revising netrunner seems to have ended before it even begun sadly. I am guessing we see an Android co-op LCG next year.

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On 6/9/2018 at 8:33 AM, Bradders77 said:

Is it good though?

At our local game store no-one plays it. Would I need x 3 cores and then all the packs to catch up, alot of money. I'm now sceptical about buying into any game after this.  I'm annoyed as it's the one social avenue I have that gets me away from everything and to do something I enjoy. They've killed that over night. Our local community was growing with ANR.....Feel cheated

It’s good. It’s different to Netrunner, that’s for sure. Also, FFG owns the IP, it’s not a license, so this cannot happen to L5R.  

Entry fee right now is not so high. 3 Cores+1st cycle+1 Clan pack is about 230$ brand new, FFG price. You can find all that for around 100-120$ used.

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57 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

It’s good. It’s different to Netrunner, that’s for sure. Also, FFG owns the IP, it’s not a license, so this cannot happen to L5R.  

Entry fee right now is not so high. 3 Cores+1st cycle+1 Clan pack is about 230$ brand new, FFG price. You can find all that for around 100-120$ used.

What is L5R like compared to AGoT?

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@Mep‘s Theories about how FFG managed the game require one to believe that up is down and black is white.

The Revised Core Set was successful enough to sell out and need another print run, so they didn’t print enough.

New players were coming into the game at a rate not seen in years, but the game had no good entry point.

They decided to kill the game so long ago that they hired an entirely new full time staff member just to do playtesting  of one cycle and design a single deluxe set.

Agreements between business partners end all the time for innumerable reasons, but all problems could be solved by throwing money at it. (GDW pulled the Warhammer license not because of the cost of the agreement but because FFG was getting into the miniatures business for example. Destiny as a CCG competes directly with MTG...)

Up is down and black is white. Better watch out at zebra crossings.

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On 6/9/2018 at 8:33 AM, Bradders77 said:

Is it good though?

At our local game store no-one plays it. Would I need x 3 cores and then all the packs to catch up, alot of money. I'm now sceptical about buying into any game after this.  I'm annoyed as it's the one social avenue I have that gets me away from everything and to do something I enjoy. They've killed that over night. Our local community was growing with ANR.....Feel cheated

Don't give up hope.

WotC hired the lead designer of netrunner (lukas) before they took back the netrunner licence. They own the CCG era cards and the game mechanics.

I would not be surprised if netrunner, minus the android, continued with WotC.

Would you continue to play it WotC released new corps/runners that were compatible with android netrunner?

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1 hour ago, mulletcheese said:

Don't give up hope.

WotC hired the lead designer of netrunner (lukas) before they took back the netrunner licence. They own the CCG era cards and the game mechanics.

I would not be surprised if netrunner, minus the android, continued with WotC.

Would you continue to play it WotC released new corps/runners that were compatible with android netrunner?

I'm not sure. If it's an LCG yes, if it's a CCG most defiantly not. I like to know what I'm buying. CCGs are pretty much buy to win, with a big singles market, Paying silly money for a single card. 

ANR was pretty much a 10 bucks a month game, another reason I played it, it was a cheap game. I played SW destiny and was constantly spending over the odds for a piece of card and opening packs that were pretty useless. If you wanted to play a tournament you would have to spend alot. With the LCG, it was cheap and we all had the same stuff at an affordable price. It created a much better feeling for the game and community. LCGs= Who's the best at the game, CCGs=who's spent the most to win this game.

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On 6/8/2018 at 2:18 PM, Mep said:

Well they clearly acted as if they would probably renew the license. Sadly it is a business decision. Either that license is worth paying for or it is not. They saw the decline in the player base, tried out 2.0 to see how it would change things, ran the numbers and decide the license wasn't worth the cost. Revised core failed the change the numbers, which is odd since it sold out. Would have been great if they released intro decks along side the revised core and gave new people an easy gate way into the game.

Yeah, I put a lot of money into this game too. Netrunner here has died out. Rather upsetting. Going to try out Arkham horror. At least there is no licensing problems there.

I'm starting to wonder if they should make some changes to their LCG system, quicker rotations, card rarities requiring you to buy multiple packs to get multiple copies of certain cards.

This is the 3rd LCG canceled within a year. $tar War$ De$tiney is still doing good. It looks like the LCG format is not making it in a consumer capitalist game market.:(

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4 hours ago, Marinealver said:

I'm starting to wonder if they should make some changes to their LCG system, quicker rotations, card rarities requiring you to buy multiple packs to get multiple copies of certain cards.

This is the 3rd LCG canceled within a year. $tar War$ De$tiney is still doing good. It looks like the LCG format is not making it in a consumer capitalist game market.:(

Actually Destiny has crashed pretty hard in the past few months and never lived up to its early success. FFG had to shell out a lot for another factory for Destiny and now that seems in vain. A lack of cash does cause money to be not available for other things like renewing licensing agreements for dying games. L5R is doing great for now, though that is a new game with a current easy point of entry. Soon that won't be the case and it will suffer like all the other LCGs. That is the big big problem, getting new customers into the game. Player turnover happens and as players leave the game, new ones need to come in. This is why good intro products are so vital. We all my hate CCGs but the truth is, through the singles market, one can buy a strong competitive deck for what one would pay for just 3 cores of netrunner. That is the flaw in the model but it is a solvable problem. Having people need to buy multiple packs to get all the copies of a rare card will actually do more harm than good. As it is you pay $15 for access to just a few cards out of the 20 you'll ever play with.

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7 minutes ago, Mep said:

Actually Destiny has crashed pretty hard in the past few months and never lived up to its early success. FFG had to shell out a lot for another factory for Destiny and now that seems in vain. A lack of cash does cause money to be not available for other things like renewing licensing agreements for dying games. L5R is doing great for now, though that is a new game with a current easy point of entry. Soon that won't be the case and it will suffer like all the other LCGs. That is the big big problem, getting new customers into the game. Player turnover happens and as players leave the game, new ones need to come in. This is why good intro products are so vital. We all my hate CCGs but the truth is, through the singles market, one can buy a strong competitive deck for what one would pay for just 3 cores of netrunner. That is the flaw in the model but it is a solvable problem. Having people need to buy multiple packs to get all the copies of a rare card will actually do more harm than good. As it is you pay $15 for access to just a few cards out of the 20 you'll ever play with.

Do you have any numbers to back up that Destiny has crashed really hard? Or that FFG had no money? or that Netrunner was dying?

I only have anecdotal information, but like many others have told you in this thread, Netrunner was thriving and had a more active meta than in previous years. I see SW Destiny being sold everywhere (not only at boardgame stores). This is for me a sign that the game is doing incredibly well. The only one I am sure of is that FFG had no lack of funds. One of the things that Asmodee and its purchase brought was financial stability (big risks like purchasing the dice factory can are much smaller with the support of a larger company behind you).

 

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