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Solo: was it murder?

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4 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

The movie has no trace of the Space Texas stereotypes that have plagued prior representations of Corellia. It depicts Corellia as a kind of Dickensian space Noir world of industrialization and moral decay. It feels much more like London during the industrialization than anything American.

Ever been to Detroit or Flint?

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10 hours ago, Daeglan said:

I think that has worked in Texas...And we know Correllia is Space Texas...

 

3 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Thankfully, Solo dismantled that stereotype.

And some of us in Texas are working to dismantle the real-world stereotype.

Not that our lawmakers are helping, though....

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18 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Ever been to Detroit or Flint?

They may be what Corellia could become after the Empire's done with it, but they're not what it is at the time of the movie.

Corellia is choking on active industry and densely populated. Detroit and Flint are suffering from having been used and discarded by industry.

Edited by Stan Fresh

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27 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

The movie has no trace of the Space Texas stereotypes that have plagued prior representations of Corellia. It depicts Corellia as a kind of Dickensian space Noir world of industrialization and moral decay. It feels much more like London during the industrialization than anything American.

Sure it does. El Paso 

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3 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Unless it's Star Wars. Then you also point a gun at people you intend to stun.

Apart from one line in ANH and one scene in Clone Wars, is there really anything in the post April 2014 canon that actually indicates all weapons do indeed have a stun setting?

I know it's an assumption that WEG made way back in the day and that every RPG has since carried forward up through today, but is there anything in the films themselves to suggest that all weapons do in fact come with a stun setting?

For all that's actually known, stun setting in Star Wars isn't very prevalent at all, and that stormtrooper blaster rifles are one of the few weapons that do have a stun setting.

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20 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Apart from one line in ANH and one scene in Clone Wars, is there really anything in the post April 2014 canon that actually indicates all weapons do indeed have a stun setting?

I know it's an assumption that WEG made way back in the day and that every RPG has since carried forward up through today, but is there anything in the films themselves to suggest that all weapons do in fact come with a stun setting?

For all that's actually known, stun setting in Star Wars isn't very prevalent at all, and that stormtrooper blaster rifles are one of the few weapons that do have a stun setting.

Slight correction: clones use stun settings more than once in The Clone Wars.

 

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8 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

...

That's a bit thin, dude.

So you ascribe to the there is only one environment on every planet.  And you call my logic thin. 

 

Shipping docks tend to be crappy. I have been to a couple. 

Edited by Daeglan

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I think it is clearly not murder. Beckett had just threatened to shot Han (and others) just a few minutes earlier, Chewbacca had been kidnapped, and Beckett was reaching for his gun. Pretty clear case of self-defense by American legal standards. 

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1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

So you ascribe to the there is only one environment on every planet.  And you call my logic thin. 

 

Shipping docks tend to be crappy. I have been to a couple. 

I've not given any reason for you to make that comment.

By now you're saying that Corellia is Space Texas in spite of what we see on screen clearly contradicting that old stereotype. You've not presented a single positive argument why it should be Space Texas.

 

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2 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

I've not given any reason for you to make that comment.

By now you're saying that Corellia is Space Texas in spite of what we see on screen clearly contradicting that old stereotype. You've not presented a single positive argument why it should be Space Texas.

 

Well, it could be Space Hobbiton for all we know. I mean, Victorian London was obviously the inspiration for the tiny little bit of Corellia seen on Solo. But we have no idea what was outside of the spaceport area. It could have been - just like Victorian England - a lovely pastoral land of farms and brooks winding through glens with shady oak trees. 

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4 hours ago, Daronil said:

Well, it could be Space Hobbiton for all we know. I mean, Victorian London was obviously the inspiration for the tiny little bit of Corellia seen on Solo. But we have no idea what was outside of the spaceport area. It could have been - just like Victorian England - a lovely pastoral land of farms and brooks winding through glens with shady oak trees. 

And maybe Alderaan is the Thunderdome desert outside of the little bits we saw of it. There's as much evidence for that as for Space Texas.

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19 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

And maybe Alderaan is the Thunderdome desert outside of the little bits we saw of it. There's as much evidence for that as for Space Texas.

Well, no, actually, there's not. There's a fair amount of Legends stuff suggesting Corellia is Space Texas-ish. Yes, it's only Legends, and I tend to sneer at Legends stuff as well, but there is no evidence to the contrary. You used the Dickensian London analogy to make your point regarding Corellia being Space Victorian London. I was pointing out that this only applies to the tiny bit of Corellia we've seen in canon, and just as there was a lot more to Victorian England than just London, there is a lot more to Corellia than the spaceport. 

This is similar to an argument that came up on the old Star Wars RPG mailing list years and years ago where I was arguing that Hoth wasn't entirely glacial. That its more temperate latitudes had a correspondingly more temperate climate but that the Rebellion had chosen the glacier to help hide themselves. My argument was that we had only seen a small area of Hoth, and that we knew it had life forms - large life forms, and an oxygen-rich atmosphere. This indicates that there were abundant plants somewhere, and that in the absence of other evidence, I chose to believe that Hoth was not entirely an ice world, but that it had plenty of temperate regions. 

Same applies here, for Corellia. We've seen a bit that was Space London. That's all we've seen of it. But we've had lots of other indications that a lot of Corellia is more Space Texas - not canonical, of course, but enough to build a prima facie case that there's more to it than the Space London spaceport. We also have no indication that Corellia is an ecumenopolis like Coruscant, so there are almost certainly rural areas. Why would those areas be run by a Space Fagin? 

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So you're saying Tarkin regularly holds Moffenences and begins them with the words Dark Greetings,  because we haven't seen that he doesn't.

Besides,  Space Texas was built upon the foundation that everyone on Corellia acted like Han.  And now that we've seen Corellia we know that he's the only one who acts like that. Just like all those racial and cultural stereotypes from the EU that have been ignored by canon. Rodians don't have a bounty hunter culture,  Ithorians aren't all nature-worshipping pacifists, and Corellians aren't all Texan stereotypes. When Legends is the best you got,  you got nothing.

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20 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

So you're saying Tarkin regularly holds Moffenences and begins them with the words Dark Greetings,  because we haven't seen that he doesn't.

Besides,  Space Texas was built upon the foundation that everyone on Corellia acted like Han.  And now that we've seen Corellia we know that he's the only one who acts like that. Just like all those racial and cultural stereotypes from the EU that have been ignored by canon. Rodians don't have a bounty hunter culture,  Ithorians aren't all nature-worshipping pacifists, and Corellians aren't all Texan stereotypes. When Legends is the best you got,  you got nothing.

No, I'm saying that Tarkin probably goes to the bathroom, because we haven't seen that he doesn't. 
Despite your strawman, I'm differentiating between things that make perfect sense and for which we have no evidence against (eg: there's more to Corellia than the spaceport, there's more to Hoth than a glacier, and there's more to Tarkin's behaviour than shouting at people), and things that make no sense and for what we have no evidence for (eg: some random bizarre stuff about Tarkin, all of Victorian England being the same as Victorian London, all of Corellia being the same as its spaceport). 

You seem to be under the impression that I'm arguing that Corellia is Space Texas. I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that your logic as to why it's not Space Texas is flawed. Your entire argument boils down to: "We've seen Corellia on Solo, and it wasn't Space Texas." You even drew the analogy comparing it to Dickensian London.

But Dickensian London did not represent all of Victorian England. Just like the Corellian spaceport doesn't represent all of Corellia. Indeed, this is why I brought up the idea of a lovely rural Corellia with forests and hidden glades because that did exist alongside the dirty, grimy, industrialised Dickensian London. 

It sounds like you're doing exactly what you're claiming others are doing: taking a small thing and assuming it represents the whole. I have no time at all for Legends - I'm simply saying that we have no evidence that that representation of Corellia is wrong, just that the spaceport wasn't like that. 

Personally, if I was having Corellia feature in my campaign, I would have the spaceport reminiscent of Dickens' London, while other industrial centres would have sprung up here and there and be a bit "Old West" in nature, and with rural areas in between. *shrug*

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No, what I'm doing is going by what's in the movie. Saying Corellia is Space Texas is going against what's in the movie.

I've shown you evidence that the EU isn't to be relied upon.  You can ignore it, but that doesn't invalidate it.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Stan Fresh said:

No, what I'm doing is going by what's in the movie. Saying Corellia is Space Texas is going against what's in the movie.

I've shown you evidence that the EU isn't to be relied upon.  You can ignore it, but that doesn't invalidate it.

 

 

I'm not saying "Corellia is Space Texas". I'm saying "There is no evidence that the tiny bit of Corellia we see in Solo represents the whole of Corellia any more than London represents the whole of England. There is a lot more to an entire planet, and the rest could be almost anything."
 

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Oh, and also, while I generally despise the Expanded Universe, just because something  is in it doesn't automatically make it wrong

If a planet in the EU has a blue sky and forests, we needn't automatically assume it doesn't, especially in the absence of evidence contrary to this. Why? Because blue sky and forests are not exceptional. Neither is gravity, or an atmosphere, or oceans. Now, if we have forests on Blockenspiel IV and then a movie comes along and shows Blockenspiel IV is a gas giant, obviously the EU is simply wrong. 

But if the movie shows a desert scene on Blockenspiel IV, despite the EU showing Blockenspiel IV having forests, do we assume: "Aha! The EU is wrong because Jar-Jar: A Star Wars Story showed desert!"? Or do we assume that Blockenspiel IV is just like Earth and has forests and deserts. 

 

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