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whafrog

Solo: was it murder?

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4 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Was there a part in the movie where they went through refinery planet's penal code?  I missed that.

Spoiling the movie??  Really???  You come to an internet forum about Star Wars, and then click on the thread with the movie title in it, and read it apparently all the way through, after the movie has been out 3ish weeks???  Yah, you were really killing yourself to avoid spoilers......

Didn’t read the thread until afterwards to be clear. I came to a forum for the Star Wars RPG and saw “Solo, was it murder?” Doesn’t take a huge leap to know what’s going to happen based on that. As far as the refinery planets penal code, you prove my point on how pointless this debate is.

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14 minutes ago, OriginalDomingo said:

Didn’t read the thread until afterwards to be clear. I came to a forum for the Star Wars RPG and saw “Solo, was it murder?” Doesn’t take a huge leap to know what’s going to happen based on that. As far as the refinery planets penal code, you prove my point on how pointless this debate is.

Sorry, not buying it, you come to a Star Wars forum wtf else do you expect to see for threads 3 weeks after a Star Wars movie has come out.  That's weak sauce.

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From what I recall, Han never really makes his intentions clear leaving it kind of up in the air whether he would've let Beckett go had Beckett surrendered the coaxium and released Chewie. But instead, Beckett tried to distract Han by talking, while subtly going for his gun. Apparently, the talking wasn't distracting enough.

So yeah, you can argue that he wasn't holding gun and therefore wasn't armed, but with a gun on his hip, it's not like he's unarmed either. The thing is, if you read the scene like Han was going to kill Beckett no matter what, yeah, then it's murder. If you read it like Beckett would've been fine had he slowly reached for his belt buckle and dropped his holster instead then it's more like self defense or justifiable homicide. The audience is clearly shown that Beckett is going for his blaster, the question is, did Han see that as well? Or did he just assume that was the case when Beckett started talking?

Of course, then there's the issue of stun settings. If we assume that every blaster comes with a stun setting that is every bit as effective as the lethal setting, then pretty much everyone killed in a Star Wars blaster fight would be considered murder victims as the level of violence justified by self defense tends to be the minimum amount needed to stop the threat (at least in most western European countries).

This kinda haunts the RPG as well, as there really isn't that much of reason (except range) not to use the stun setting all the time.

Perhaps the stun setting shouldn't be as ubiquitous or as effective as the RPG makes it out to be. We don't see that much use of it in canon media. There's Leia's capture in ANH, the mutiny in TLJ, Rebels uses it a fair bit and I think it shows up a few times in CW. But it's not exactly widely used by any means.

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21 minutes ago, penpenpen said:

Perhaps the stun setting shouldn't be as ubiquitous or as effective as the RPG makes it out to be. We don't see that much use of it in canon media. There's Leia's capture in ANH, the mutiny in TLJ, Rebels uses it a fair bit and I think it shows up a few times in CW. But it's not exactly widely used by any means. 

Most fighting we see in the movies and the cartoons is in a military context,  not a civilian or law enforcement one.  That probably influences our perceptions of how widespread (or rare) stunning might be when the camera isn't pointed at soldiers or scoundrels.

 

 

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2 hours ago, korjik said:

I am pretty sure that if Lando were flying around hi bypass turbofans, he would agree with Edna

Are you suggesting Lando would go for practicality over style?!?

That is an outrageous accusation!

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On 6/8/2018 at 9:29 PM, SEApocalypse said:

I think in most justice systems Han would face one problem. He design the situation. He is the architect of his own self-defense case and this counts as cold blooded murder. He could have Becket just get away. He did not need to fight for the stolen goods. Han did not want to lose, so he planned to kill Becket and Dryden Vos. Now he gets bonus points, because he did not do it for the money, but it was still Han's plan all along to kill those two, because leaving loose ends would have been bad. 

He did however need to fight for chewie.

And as to Drydon. He had a plan tonkill him if Drydon double crossed him. Which he did. 

Greedo backed Han into a corner with no way out. None of these cases are murder. 

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12 hours ago, OriginalDomingo said:

Thanks for spoiling the movie btw because as soon as the showdown started, I knew exactly what was going to happen just from reading the thread name. Despite my best attempts to avoids spoilers, oh well. Classy.

Be sure to spend all 60 minutes:

 

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16 hours ago, OriginalDomingo said:

Thanks for spoiling the movie btw because as soon as the showdown started, I knew exactly what was going to happen just from reading the thread name. Despite my best attempts to avoids spoilers, oh well. Classy.

So uh, there were sure a lot of shootings in the movie.  How can you be sure to which the subject is referring?  Did you expect to see a Han Solo Star Wars movie in which nobody gets shot?  This is akin to complaining that someone said there would be space ships in a Star Wars movie.  It sucks that it spoiled it for you, but this complaint seems a bit unreasonable. 

It's debatable whether or not a Star Wars RPG forum needs to have a blanket moratorium on spoilers for longer than a few weeks after release - places like Reddit have blackouts until August but I've read nothing of even a gentlepeoples' agreement for this community.  What do you feel is a reasonable blackout period?

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5 hours ago, themensch said:

So uh, there were sure a lot of shootings in the movie.  How can you be sure to which the subject is referring?  Did you expect to see a Han Solo Star Wars movie in which nobody gets shot?  This is akin to complaining that someone said there would be space ships in a Star Wars movie.  It sucks that it spoiled it for you, but this complaint seems a bit unreasonable. 

It's debatable whether or not a Star Wars RPG forum needs to have a blanket moratorium on spoilers for longer than a few weeks after release - places like Reddit have blackouts until August but I've read nothing of even a gentlepeoples' agreement for this community.  What do you feel is a reasonable blackout period?

All I’m saying is leave anything remotely specific out of the thread topic name, but whatever.

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42 minutes ago, OriginalDomingo said:

All I’m saying is leave anything remotely specific out of the thread topic name, but whatever.

I have to admit this is a fair point.  Given the previous thread's constant position at the top of the list, I figured everybody else had seen it already.

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1 minute ago, whafrog said:

I have to admit this is a fair point.  Given the previous thread's constant position at the top of the list, I figured everybody else had seen it already.

I hadn’t actually read the thread before. That was the only point I was trying to make. I apologize for the tone and any snarkiness on my part, though. Moving on? Hand shake and all that?

Good burn with the violin, btw. Got nothing for that except some ointment.

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1 hour ago, themensch said:

It's a good practice, I'd agree. 

Or at the very least add "Spoilers" to the thread's title.

OriginalDomingo does have a fair point, even if he was perhaps a little more dramatic about it than the situation necessarily called for.  Then again, some of the responses he got were just as uncalled for, so I guess it all balances out in the end.

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9 hours ago, whafrog said:

I have to admit this is a fair point.  Given the previous thread's constant position at the top of the list, I figured everybody else had seen it already.

Which is completely reasonable to think while on a fan forum 2 1/2 weeks after a film premiered.  That's before we get into things like personal accountability and discipline for our own left clicks, or expectations of the world censoring/editing itself.

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On 6/8/2018 at 12:31 PM, 2P51 said:

Feel free to link a real story from the real world where one dude had an arm chopped off and another gutted in a bar and the cops did more or less nothing, didn't close the bar, didn't roll out CSI, didn't stop and ID every single person in the bar.

We were clearly shown in 1977 that law and order and the nature of this universe was utterly and totally not like what we are accustomed to in our lives.

Although to be fair, stopping some dude getting torn up on Tatooine was not those stormtrooper's mandate. "Is that one a droid? Nope. How about that one? Nope. Okay, not our concern. Carry on then!"

They had more important things to worry about, like Vader putting ten gallons of hurt in their five gallon bucket if the droids/plans got away.

 

On 6/9/2018 at 6:22 PM, korjik said:

I am pretty sure that if Lando were flying around hi bypass turbofans, he would agree with Edna

Lando strikes me as a smart enough fellow to use what we earthlings like to call "velcro" or "clasps".

Edited by Desslok

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8 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Although to be fair, stopping some dude getting torn up on Tatooine was not those stormtrooper's mandate. "Is that one a droid? Nope. How about that one? Nope. Okay, not our concern. Carry on then!"

They had more important things to worry about, like Vader putting ten gallons of hurt in their five gallon bucket if the droids/plans got away.

That's  not the point. That's  the opposite of the point. In fact it makes my point. The authorities didn't  even ask Han n Chewie their names. Someone reported it to  them apparently since they said they asked the bartender about the " trouble" and they'd "check it out". We are clealy shown in Star Wars violence is not viewed in the same way. In regards to Tatooine being backwater, apparently not so much that someone calls space 911 and the strormtroopers show up on scene while those involved are still present. They walked in looked, quickly arrived 2 groups of scum and villainy and said F it.

 

 

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