Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Whelp, that's typical. Just decided the game seemed cool and got the revised core set. Yesterday. FML.

Nonetheless...

Assuming I enjoy it enough to continue to play casually, what are the recommendations for a few additional purchases to allow for play over the long term? Are there 2 or 3 of the big boxes that would be the must have expansions?

Edited by rlaundry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jeffrey Paul said:

If the sells weren't there because the product wasn't being distributed.  I preordered a copy of the new Netrunner starter when it was announced in 2017, and still haven't got one.  My FLGS ordered some and has never received any either.

There are a lot of products in netrunner, not just the core. They clearly didn't print enough of the revised core to meet demand but the revised core may not have translated into sales of the other netrunner products as they thought it would. That may have been the metric they based their math on. Clearly the decision was made some time ago, but it seems many of the deluxe boxes are also in short supply. Of course the licensing agreement is a long term deal and the arrow on netrunner has been pointing down for a long time now. Revise clearly didn't turn the game around as they hoped. FFG is a very odd company that often does things that make no sense to most people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Mep said:

There are a lot of products in netrunner, not just the core. They clearly didn't print enough of the revised core to meet demand but the revised core may not have translated into sales of the other netrunner products as they thought it would. That may have been the metric they based their math on. Clearly the decision was made some time ago, but it seems many of the deluxe boxes are also in short supply. Of course the licensing agreement is a long term deal and the arrow on netrunner has been pointing down for a long time now. Revise clearly didn't turn the game around as they hoped. FFG is a very odd company that often does things that make no sense to most people.

So you don't buy that this was something out of their hands? That sure seems like the implication of the head of studio's statement.

Incidentally, FFG had 3 games at their little setup at Kublacon, X-wing, Destiny, and L5R, although I didn't see if the latter had actual games going. There seemed to be a decentish number of Destiny people.

Edited by PenguinBonaparte

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, PenguinBonaparte said:

So you don't buy that this was something out of their hands? That sure seems like the implication of the head of studio's statement.

I never read that into their statement.

Licensing agreements come up all the time and can always be renewed. It wasn't and they didn't say exactly why (the reason is always money btw). Whatever the cost was, both parties decided it wasn't worth it. I am sure in their heart they had full desire to continue the game but the math tells you if you can continue it, not the heart.

It is possible Wizards has plans for netrunner and simply gave no option for renewal. If that is the case we will see a new netrunner next year. I doubt that is the case though. Cyberpunk was a thing back in the 90s. The Ghost in the Shell movie and even the new Bladerunner didn't do so well at the box office. There really isn't a reason to believe Cyberpunk is on the rise and Wizards is going to start making a new card game along side Magic. Any thing is possible, I just don't see it. The most likely explanation is the money wasn't there.

No money, no profit, no game. Some things really are that simple which is infuriating since this was FFG's best game. It was just mismanaged since the "notrunner" years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wizards could have just not opted to continue it though for competition reasons, or made it prohibitively expensive. Either is possible without them wanting to make their own version. If ANR was really bleeding money for FFG, then sure, but it just didn't sound like an internal calculation, but something that arose out of their interactions with the licensing company.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Companies certainly can be petty but it is unlikely that Wizards would turn down a fist full of money if FFG was handing it too them. It was clearly prohibitively expensive to renew the license and continue the game. It does seem as if FFG felt they could renegotiate the license that made sense for the current state of the game. That amount didn't work for Wizards and FFG can certainly make more money off of non-licensed IP. All hail Runewars LCG or whatever.

Licensing agreements are tricky things. SyFy just canceled the Expanse due to licensing. The show was good, people liked it but SyFy only got money from it for first run showings on their network. They got nothing from streaming, which it seems most people do these days. The money wasn't there for SyFy so they canceled the show. SyFy has no problem producing complete junk they wholely own that no one wants to watch. Companies like owning their own IP for this reason and license holders are happy to hold on to a license and wait for the best deal they can get rather than have it tied up in bad deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It certainly did seem like FFG had all intentions of renegotiating that license and extending it. Completely blindsided us with this. A deal takes 3 things, two sides and money. One of those wasn't there and I don't see anyone else knocking on Wizard's door offering them money for that license. I am sure if the money was there, a deal would have been made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Mep said:

It certainly did seem like FFG had all intentions of renegotiating that license and extending it. Completely blindsided us with this. A deal takes 3 things, two sides and money. One of those wasn't there and I don't see anyone else knocking on Wizard's door offering them money for that license. I am sure if the money was there, a deal would have been made.

If corporations were simple profit-maximizing entities composed entirely of homines economici operating in fair self-correcting, then sure. I see companies leave ridiculous amounts of money on the table all the time sometimes for good reasons, sometimes for no reason at all. ****, just in the game-space, look at WizKids if you want to see utterly nonsensical decisions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Mep. As fans of various games and properties it's easy to lay the reason for certain decisions on emotional responses, because we put so many of our emotions into the things we love, but business decisions between successful companies always come down to money.

The sick thing is that a game doesn't even have to lose money, just not make the right amount of money to justify its existence. I'm certain Netrunner made money, just probably not enough for one or more parties involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is heart breaking. So first, a goodbye to Netrunner.

It felt like yesterday that I came to the FFG site and saw the resurrection of Netrunner. I was in tears of joy! My favorite CCG, the long-dead Netrunner, coming back out of the blue like that AND FFG was going to be making it (I love FFG due to AGoT). WHAT?!?!? To say it was unexpected would be an understatement. I wouldn't even have been able to dream this up.

And then to see the game thrive over the years... even in my city. And with the Revised Core and new expansion announcements, I thought Netrunner wasn't going anywhere...

Then it DIED... every bit as unexpected and shocking as when it was brought back. Goodbye again, Netrunner.

---------------------------------------------------

Like other posters, I too read from the article that the team was caught off guard too. This is probably not on FFG (at least not for the most part). We will probably never find out the truth of why the game's life was cut short. But regardless of the reason, the sad reality remains.

No replacement Android game would do it for me. It is the Netrunner part that I love.

Here's hoping WotC is doing something with it, instead of sitting on it like they did before. Hopefully they will bring it back. Several reasons that could happen:

1. A high profile Cyberpunk (Netrunner's original setting) PC game in the horizon from the makers of Witcher

2. FFG proved that Netrunner is viable

3. WotC is investing in digital MTG

4. WotC not continuing the deal with FFG

This COULD mean WotC planning a digital Netrunner perhaps? I know this is probably wishful thinking...

The counter point though, is that they would probably want to launch near Cyberpunk to catch the hype train, so they would need to start now. Even starting now might be too late. And with their focus right now clearly on digital MTG, it is unlikely they are also doing working on Netrunner at the same time. So more than likely WotC doing Netrunner is purely wishful thinking :(

 

But hey... I didn't know Netrunner was going to come back 6 years ago, and it did.

Who knows, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How is this even an issue? NR has always been my favorite game since it was released bu WoTC. A:NR had a fantastic run and we have gotten cards that will last for a lifetime. The game is not dead, we still have our collections. I will continue to play this and so will my friends. Why do some people act like this game is dead just because they are no longer able to pay more money for it? Is that the main reason for playing?

Now I can treat this as - finally -  a completed game. I will build 20 decks that are ready to go and that will be it - just grab a couple and play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mixxathon said:

How is this even an issue? NR has always been my favorite game since it was released bu WoTC. A:NR had a fantastic run and we have gotten cards that will last for a lifetime. The game is not dead, we still have our collections. I will continue to play this and so will my friends. Why do some people act like this game is dead just because they are no longer able to pay more money for it? Is that the main reason for playing?

Now I can treat this as - finally -  a completed game. I will build 20 decks that are ready to go and that will be it - just grab a couple and play.

Because for many of us, we don't want a complete game. We want a LIVING game - one that continually grows and evolves, with a shifting metagame and a dynamic card pool (plus ongoing Organised Play support).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, PenguinBonaparte said:

So you don't buy that this was something out of their hands? That sure seems like the implication of the head of studio's statement.
 

I also agree with Mep. Let not hide ourselve. Netrunner was more complicated and abstract than the other LCG. It appealed to less people. Plus it was old, so costly despite the rotation. Since the announcement of the end of the game, I have saw many comments on different forums saying things like: " I love this game but I haven't played for years". So I have no problem imaginating the sell declining. 

I also don't see Wizard of the Coast as the evil corps who refuse to renew the liscence just to kill a competitor. They probably ask more money than what they got 5 years ago but it was to be expected because Netrunner had become a popular game since. Who wouldn't want a bigger share of the pie? FFG probably made a business decision, comparing the cost of the license vs the profit and decided it was not worth it.

Edited by vilainn6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/8/2018 at 6:01 PM, Laserwulf said:

Wait, why is this a surprise? LCGs 'live' for a few years, die, and another one comes along.

  • Game of Thrones (1st ed)  2008-2015: 7 years
  • Android: Netrunner  2012-2018: 6 years
  • Warhammer: Invasion  2009-2013: 4 years
  • Warhammer 40k: Conquest  2014-2017: 3 years
  • Doomtown: Reloaded  2014-2016 (in LCG format as we know it): 2 years
  • Arkham Horror LCG  2016-present
  • L5R  2017-present

Call of Cthulhu LCG 2008-2015

Star Wars LCG 2012-2018

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a reality check - making money from a licensing agreement is the easiest money to make. All Wizards needs to do is cash a check. FFG assumes all the risk, does all the development, manufacturing and distribution and advertising. Thinking the suits at Wizards wouldn't cash a check and pass on the opportunity to pad their quarterlies is silly. They would if they got a better offer sure. I love cyberpunk but sadly cyberpunk really isn't a thing. Both GitS and Bladerunner movies didn't do well. There are a ton of video games out there. One more in the crowd isn't going to put cyberpunk back on the map. I just don't see anyone else out there making Wizards a better offer and as far as card games go, for Wizards it is Magic, Magic and way too much Magic. It is possible for them to suddenly want to diverge into another card game but it isn't something they typically do. Even if they did, it would be a Wizards run CCG and no one here is asking for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Mep said:

There are a ton of video games out there. One more in the crowd isn't going to put cyberpunk back on the map.

It is, if it’s made by CDprojekt Red. A lot of people has been expecting this game, and the only thing we have is a trailer that came out in 2012. 

These people made The Witcher, and that has spawn a pen and paper RPG and a digital card game. Some people has even go as far as printing the Gwent cards to play the game physically. 

So, if there’s a possibility of the Ciberpunk game becoming huge (and there is), I can see WotC trying to get the license to milk it themselves. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The last time I saw this happen was when the World of Warcraft CCG license was suddenly pulled from Cryptozoic.  A short time later, Hearthstone was announced.  I suspect WotC has some sort of plan for Netrunner; one that requires there isn't another card game active.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/8/2018 at 8:21 AM, Matrim said:

Licenses are out of their control as has been proved in the past. Therefore you are certainly 'safer' with Arkham and L5R as there are no 3rd parties involved. GoT and SW both have those 3rd parties (not that I am suggesting that either of those two licenses are at risk)

So they could not renew the license?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/9/2018 at 11:40 AM, Mixxathon said:

How is this even an issue? NR has always been my favorite game since it was released bu WoTC. A:NR had a fantastic run and we have gotten cards that will last for a lifetime. The game is not dead, we still have our collections. I will continue to play this and so will my friends. Why do some people act like this game is dead just because they are no longer able to pay more money for it? Is that the main reason for playing?

Now I can treat this as - finally -  a completed game. I will build 20 decks that are ready to go and that will be it - just grab a couple and play.

Well, Netrunner was called a 'Living' Card Game for a reason. If no new products will ever be released, it's certainly no longer 'living'. I'd call it 'undead', but 'dead' seems more appropriate since FFG won't even be allowed to reprint any of the existing releases, if I'm not mistaken.

Also, I've seen this argument about a million times, and the same thing happens every time: People move on. There may be a small hardcore fan base that continues to play the game and thanks to the internet they'll even be able to organize and continue to meet if only virtually. But without new releases, the meta is completely static, and eventually there's nothing left to discuss or explore about the game. It's hard to stay invested in such a game.

As sad as it may be, there will always be other games.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/8/2018 at 11:20 PM, Randito said:

My Darth Maul underwear, BB-8 electric toothbrush and Boba Fett trashcan disagree.  I don't think Star Wars would "revoke" a license from anything.  

I don't think any of these are FFG products.

Also, who said something about revoking? I've been talking about the end of the current licensing contract. When that time comes, Disney may adjust their licensing terms resulting in FFG no longer being able to support their product lines.

Then, either another board game company will bite and agree with the new, harsher terms, hoping they'll still be able to make a profit, or there'll be a period without any new 'Star Wars' board games. It's also possible (or even likely) that some board game company that has been acquired by Disney will take over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/8/2018 at 10:41 AM, BDrafty said:

The owner(s) of the license must of asked for X in the renegotiations and the product line only yeilded Y. If they can't make the profit they need off of the line then they can't keep it going. Given that FFG stated that they had just launched a revised core set, I'm sure that this is the last thing they wanted. This is just a situation where everyone loses.

Except WOTC, they win big getting a big competitor off the market.  ANR blew up and attracted plenty of MTG players like me.  I pretty much stopped buying several grand in MTG cards a year to play ANR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...