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Force Majeure

Where are my Cannons and Turrets?

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3 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

Well, I was hoping that Mangler and maybe Linked Battery would make it into the kit, but I don't see why we couldn't have one of every cannon or turret to begin with.

I'll be patient. I'm guessing there's a master plan, but dang it, my B-wings need their Manglers. ?

It really seems fair to me that Manglers would be in Scum conversion.  They just sound Scummy.  All kidding aside, this would actually make sense too because 1.0 Manglers only came in Scum expansions packs (Scyk, IG-2000).

Linked battery as well, right? Linked battery came in the gunboat pack.

That being said, if Manglers/Linked Battery aren't Scum/Imperial only now then they will eventually be released in a future Rebel and Imperial pack/"paper only" pack.

Edited by Skitchx

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Mangler canon being gone is a huge issue for the M3-A & trouble for the Gunboats. ? A 5 ship Scyk swarm will not be possible in 2e. Even if it was possible, you would have to sellout and purchase 3 conversion boxes. ? I was hoping it would still exist, the only difference being you get the hit -> crit only with your target in the bullseye arc. Good riddance to the ARC Caster. There are probably less than a dozen people on the planet who have ever used that upgrade.

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3 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

We didn't need all of those flavors of Cannons and Turrets- They didn't have a vital place in the game's design. There are now also only 3 System upgrades- All upgrade slots lost cards.

This is just plain wrong.  Sadly, I don't know if you are trying to be funny or are being serious.

 

3 hours ago, Jike said:

I'd guess FFG don't like weaponised stress, which means the Flechette isn't a thing (the stressbot is also gone). Blaster and Synched Turrets as well as Mangler and Arc Caster all just act like regular weapons with a minor upside/downside so I suspect they've been removed as they don't really have much of a purpose in the game any more. Autoblaster is probably gone because it's tough to balance a weapon that always hits.

I could be wrong, and these things might appear later but it seems odd to remove them now and have us wait for the reintroduction of 1st edition cards.

You are wrong.  Just because something isn't on this list doesn't mean it won't ever be back in the game.  It isn't odd to remove things now - they are reintroducing the game, hopefully to a mass of new players.  They don't want to overload newbies with all the potential upgrades - they have said something to this effect.

 

3 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

Ah, but variety added so much nuance. Granted, the turrets were mostly poop, but so many upgrades have been lost.

I will miss my Wookiee Liberators too...

For now... I would be surprised if a majority of the upgrades in 1e don't make it to 2e.

The Wookiees may return when the Auzituck is reintroduced.

 

9 minutes ago, Dengar5 said:

Mangler canon being gone is a huge issue for the M3-A & trouble for the Gunboats. ? A 5 ship Scyk swarm will not be possible in 2e. Even if it was possible, you would have to sellout and purchase 3 conversion boxes. ? I was hoping it would still exist, the only difference being you get the hit -> crit only with your target in the bullseye arc. Good riddance to the ARC Caster. There are probably less than a dozen people on the planet who have ever used that upgrade.

The M3-A 2e hasn't even been announced yet.  Pump the breaks on assuming something that isn't in the conversion kit is gone for good.

 

You all are forgetting that this list is not an all-inclusive list of everything that will ever be in the game.

Alex Davy was playing with a Seismic Torpedo on May 2nd.  It isn't on this list yet it still exists.

Stop thinking you have to buy multiple conversion kits.  The devs had stated very clearly that they don't want people to have to do this - they will have "paper only" conversion kits later down the line.

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1 minute ago, Skitchx said:

The M3-A 2e hasn't even been announced yet.  Pump the breaks on assuming something that isn't in the conversion kit is gone for good.

I bet you $100 monopoly dollars and all my internet karma that mangler canon is NOT in the scum conversion box. I don't care if it eventually exists in the future, it doesn't exist right NOW.

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With the new dislike of weaponised stress, the Flechette cannon seems gone for good. 

If also Mangler is gone it's a bit sad for cannon M3A/Scyks, they are more or less relegated to Ion duty.

Cause HLC is probably just not practical, Bullseye difficult to proc from range 3 (where a cannon Scyks wants to be) and probably rather expensive, especially on the rather flimsy M3A chassis.

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Grr.. the more I think about it, the more I am annoyed by HLC, which is practically worthless.  Who can get a bullseye arc in a sluggish ship?  Not the gunboats thats for sure... and even when you do somehow get somebody in your arc then it must only be in range 2 (half of what is available to you) as otherwise they get an extra green dice. 

My poor gunboats and the XG-1 configuration... who wants that rubbish now? :(

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19 minutes ago, william1134 said:

Grr.. the more I think about it, the more I am annoyed by HLC, which is practically worthless.  Who can get a bullseye arc in a sluggish ship?  Not the gunboats thats for sure... and even when you do somehow get somebody in your arc then it must only be in range 2 (half of what is available to you) as otherwise they get an extra green dice. 

My poor gunboats and the XG-1 configuration... who wants that rubbish now? :(

It's even more annoying considering how much of a faction imbalance it causes. Rebels for the most part got to keep their four-die attacks, even if they were changed/nerfed somewhat, and also keeping their attack die spike too. Imperials and Scum have no such luck, losing all of their 4-die attacks. Proton torps and missiles seem to be the only way to get them damage spikes now.

Also with changing points costs there really is no excuse for HLC to be effectively unusable. This is one of my bigger grips with 2.0; the continuation of releasing bad pilots and cards for a game that has no reason to do so.

Edited by DarkArk

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I think cannons will be much less attractive now that they give range bonus to the defender.

But my M3a's will require something like Flechette/Manger cannon to be attractive.

IG-88(B)s currently look strange as the HLC is bullseye only and the Ion looking like the only really usable option. Might return to Defender style Primary+Tractor setup?

We won't see TLT (yay) or the  linked battery (fix) but I am hoping for a Synced turret. That was actually good design in 1.0 IMO and was balanced to play with/against. Just got crowded by the TLT, like everything else.

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21 hours ago, HaranHaste said:

I am disappointed by the number of pilots. Maybe the individual ship releases will have more

Sure hope so. Would love to see Tycho and Keyan in 2e.

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21 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

Auto-damage seems to be a thing FFG are trying to avoid, so I imagine they'll be quite different. They're supposed to be short range, rapid fire weapons with each shot being relatively weak. So maybe they could cause the defender to roll one fewer dice, or prevent them from modifying their dice in exchange for having to turn any crit results to hits? 

If so, I hope it changes them AFTER all other modifiers are applied.  Having a weapon change crits to hits, only for an upgrade to switch them right back seems a little unfair.

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im hoping Manglers ended up as an Imperial only weapon

With HLC being neutered so bad i would only use it if its pennies cheap to field now (no more sneaky crits and bullseye only....REALLY BULLSEYE ONLY!?) Mangler was my default alternative for my gunboats. Since they can use ion cannons now thats a .. decent alternative but they lose the raw firepower i want them for in exchange for control, which i dont want them to be forced to become.

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20 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Ion cannon xg-1 with backup procket 

As it should be!

9 hours ago, william1134 said:

Grr.. the more I think about it, the more I am annoyed by HLC, which is practically worthless.  Who can get a bullseye arc in a sluggish ship?  Not the gunboats thats for sure... and even when you do somehow get somebody in your arc then it must only be in range 2 (half of what is available to you) as otherwise they get an extra green dice. 

My poor gunboats and the XG-1 configuration... who wants that rubbish now? :(

In my group, at least, HLC are the only cannons anyone ever seems to use.  If a little nerf gets people to think about other options, that's not bad in my opinion.

I'd also point out that the Gunboat doesn't exist in 2.0 at launch.  The conversion kits allow us to fly our ships early, but we may need to wait for their official release before we have all the toys to make them really shine.

3 hours ago, Skitchx said:

The more I think about it the more I don't like the idea that range affects cannons.

Why not?  Thematically it makes sense, and the penalty at long range is offset by a boost at close range.

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8 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Why not?  Thematically it makes sense, and the penalty at long range is offset by a boost at close range.

I know I know. It really just comes down to me being stubborn and being stuck in my 1e ways.

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57 minutes ago, Jiron said:

Autoblaster turret is gone as well. I am glad. These turrets and cannons make sense. I am happy that most of the cannons and turrets are gone. Now hate me.

Edit: Let the past die!

Don't now about autoblaster turret. It was very accurate low damage and short range. I definitly had counterplay. 

The only broken combos with autoblaster turret where the 4 unavoidable damage ghost + AC double tap and 3 dice ABT with Miranda. And we all know those ships broke pretty much any upgrade you could fit in there.

In 2.0 it would be a 1 dice attack turret if the designers want to keep the unavoidable damage theme

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11 hours ago, william1134 said:

Grr.. the more I think about it, the more I am annoyed by HLC, which is practically worthless.  Who can get a bullseye arc in a sluggish ship?  Not the gunboats thats for sure... and even when you do somehow get somebody in your arc then it must only be in range 2 (half of what is available to you) as otherwise they get an extra green dice. 

My poor gunboats and the XG-1 configuration... who wants that rubbish now? :(

With all the limitations on HLC, it should be much cheaper in comparison to 1.0. I actually have some hope that it could be useful in 2.0. It should perform much better against large bases than small ones.

It makes no sense that people can simultaneously think that 2.0 Prockets will be amazing, but 2.0 HLC will be garbage, when both rely on the bullseye arc to do anything.

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I'm assuming 2.0 prockets are going to be cheap (1-shot). Mostly, though, the bullseye requirement is also tempered by buffing it to range 1-2.

If it's cheap enough, it'll give imperial ion carriers a really good backup weapon (especially since it'll be easier to bullseye an ioned ship)

HLC though would be a primary means of attack for ships like the Gunboat, which is no bueno because it's bullseye only.

I can only see it being good if it's cheap enough to supplement a 3-die ship like the B-wing.

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3 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

With all the limitations on HLC, it should be much cheaper in comparison to 1.0. I actually have some hope that it could be useful in 2.0. It should perform much better against large bases than small ones.

It makes no sense that people can simultaneously think that 2.0 Prockets will be amazing, but 2.0 HLC will be garbage, when both rely on the bullseye arc to do anything.

You are correct that these bullseye arc weapons are going to be good against large base ships. I have flown many dozens of games with the Kimogila. The only time the bullseye arc can consistently hit is against large base ships. Lining anything up in bullseye at range3 is rare. Against small base ships, lining up bullseye arc will happen maybe once or twice a game, and this is with positioning 2-3 turns in advance to line up the shot. Usually when you get something in bullseye arc you are at R1.

Prockets may stay the same price for generics, but hopefully will cost more for aces to take. HLC definitely needs a big price cut. I like that canons get range bonuses now. Range control is nearly as important as arc control. We want 2e to be highly dependent on your maneuvering.

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