Hold Your Ground + Frontal Assault - New Support Units For Each Faction

[DerBaer 1,223]

20 minutes ago, Rettere said:

Yes, I’m ignoring armor and cover equally. I’m not calculating damage against troopers (or any unit) I’m just calculating the expected number of hits+crits rolled. It’s a limited metric but I think it is the metric that highlights the unique thing that the Eweb brings to the table for imperials,

I understand that: You say, that the E-Web has the biggest damage output per point for the Empire (when the target does not have armor). This is unique, and therefore the E-Web will have it's place, no matter that it's "slow" and killed faster than bikes. Agreed.

21 minutes ago, Rettere said:

while the rebel turret doesn’t really give them anything new and unique.

Here I don't agree. The Radar Cannon has Impact 2, even 3 with an Overcharged Generator. This is not common for Rebels. If your local meta has lots of armored targets, then you will want one or two of these.

[player2801864 38]

Hooray for adding some more variation to Grand Army! While a Grand Speeder Bike army sounds fun, it's nice to have some variety. Now I want more units.

[Tirion 2,223]

8 hours ago, Jake the Hutt said:

The range 4 is nice,as is standby at range 3, but I was hoping that it would be a good deterrent against speeder bikes and flanking troopers, and I just don't think it is. Interestingly, the E-Wed is MUCH better at damaging Rebels than the Laser is at Damaging Imperials, although its worse against Armor of course. I suppose thats supposed to be the tradeoff, but with only a single Imperial armored unit (that apparently isn't getting much play) I would have much rather had something thats good at dealing with Speeder bikes.

They're called fleet troopers. The wreck speeders

[Orkimedes 592]

19 minutes ago, DerBaer said:

I understand that: You say, that the E-Web has the biggest damage output per point for the Empire (when the target does not have armor). This is unique, and therefore the E-Web will have it's place, no matter that it's "slow" and killed faster than bikes. Agreed.

Here I don't agree. The Radar Cannon has Impact 2, even 3 with an Overcharged Generator. This is not common for Rebels. If your local meta has lots of armored targets, then you will want one or two of these.

Agreed.  Having access to a proper impact weapon is nice, even if it doesn’t move.  And the range 4 is something Rebels don’t have previously either.

[NeonWolf 942]

First, I think like most units that have been released/announced so far, the value of Impact will increase as the game evolves and more units are added.

Second, I'm excited to see how army builds will change to include and counter both of these units.  Stationary/low-mobility units are usually susceptible to flanking units like the 74-Z's and T-47's, so will we see an increase in the value of the T-47 because of the inclusion of the E-Web or 1.4FD?

Third, we should really be comparing the FD to the AT-RT, specifically, an AT-RT with a Rotary Blaster to the FD with either Generator upgrade.  This is because they are direct competitors for the Support slots in your list and because they are both 80 points with identical primary attack dice.  Quick comparison below, I'm leaving out the secondary/melee attacks for now.

AT-RT w/Rotary Blaster (80 pts): 5 black dice @Range 1-3`, Offensive Surge->Crit, Armor, 6 health/4 resilience, Vehicle, Mobile

1.4 FD w/"X" Generator (80 pts): 5 black dice @ Range 1-4, Offensive Surge->Hit, Defensive Surge->Block, 6 health/2 Courage, Troopers, Immobile

The primary attack has the same number of dice but the FD has an extra 6" of range and has an exhaustable boost of either +2 white dice & Suppressive or +1 black die &+1 Impact. The Surge-Crit is better against targets with Armor or Cover. There are more variables in comparing the White Defense Die+Armor to the White Defense Die+Surge but in my experience the Defensive Surge wins out since Impact is mush more prevalent than Pierce.  As a side note, there are some questions about what kind of Cover, if any, the FD gains from Barricades.

I think that both units have their uses and lend themselves to different play styles.  Either unit is going to draw fire away from your Corps Troopers as they both pose threats. The FD is a better deterrent unit that the AT-RT but the AT-RT obviously is better at pressuring your opponents units.  Personally I plan on trying a list with a T-47 and a couple of the FD's when they are released.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

1 hour ago, Jake the Hutt said:

I don't disagree that the Laser Turret is meant as an anti-armor unit... I just don't think its a very good one (although its not like we have a huge selection). Unupgraded against the AT-ST it only does an average of 1.60 damage (and .87 if the model is in cover). Thats not awful, but its not great either, and  it means you'll be plinking away for a long time, even with  a pair of them, and on a lot of tables it may be pretty easy to avoid (although the AT-ST is a big target).  I would have expected it to have a little more punch for its points and its drawbacks.

 

You are deliberately trying to make the laser look like a bad unit. Why are you taking it without the overcharge? I could say the AT-RT is bad against armor because I keep taking the flame thrower. 

With overcharge, you get the following:

6 black dice = 6(5/8) = 3.75 damage = 3 crits or 75% chance 4 crits
3 white dice = 3(2/6) = 1 defense
4 white deice = 4(2/6) = 1.33 defense

On average, you can expect to deal 2 damage, or have a 75% to deal 2.67 damage. 

I've never seen an AT-ST in cover, and very rarely will an AT-RT be in cover. 

 

If you don't want to use it, that's fine. But the unit only looks bad because you keep making up scenarios where it's designed to fail. As of right now, 2 laser cannons with overcharge is 5 points less than a T47, but has 6 impact at range 4, which is the best anti-armor for Rebels, and is only rivaled by 2 HH12 squads. 

[shmitty 3,315]

The Range 4 + Suppressive combo in a relatively affordable package is what makes the FD most interesting to me.  Range 4 gives it enough threat range that it can likely combine fire with other units in your army and really stack up the suppression quickly.

That is something no other unit in the Rebel army can currently do.  That it has Impact 2 and can do anti-armor work in a pinch is a bonus, but I see these as handing out Suppression like candy.

[Tealadin 51]

This is cool and all, but why are there only Snowtrooper/Hoth trooper crew? Yes we only see the 1.4FD on Hoth, but the first time we see the E-Web its used against the Falcon on Tatooine. This should really come with standard trooper crew or snow crew.

[buckero0 1,956]

53 minutes ago, Orkimedes said:

Agreed.  Having access to a proper impact weapon is nice, even if it doesn’t move.  And the range 4 is something Rebels don’t have previously either.

laser cannon on an ATRT has range 2-4 and impact 3.  I don't know, I think a lot of this boils down to which scenario you play and what the terrain looks like. IF you do a lot of hills and trees, the cannon could be fine. If you do a lot of buildings your cannon may never get a shot off.

Edited June 7, 2018 by buckero0

[buckero0 1,956]

1 minute ago, Tealadin said:

 This should really come with standard trooper crew or snow crew.

Or just release a new mold or extra figures pack with random body types.  A couple of storm troopers, snow troopers, Officers, etc and the Rebels equivalent for some variety.

[Crawfskeezen 370]

1 minute ago, Tealadin said:

This is cool and all, but why are there only Snowtrooper/Hoth trooper crew? Yes we only see the 1.4FD on Hoth, but the first time we see the E-Web its used against the Falcon on Tatooine. This should really come with standard trooper crew or snow crew.

Yea, the E-web caught me a bit off guard in that regard as well. I think I may have been able to look past it because I really like the Snowtrooper models and like many here will be painting them as "Harsh Weather" troopers, not just necessarily for snow planets. The Hoth Rebel Troopers on the other hand I believe are cooler looking than the Endor force, but that's just my opinion. In then end how you plan to scheme your army will probably overcome the visual aesthetic of different armour/uniforms.

[dagiantkilla 2]

3 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

I'm super excited about the E-WEB.  When they're released, I'll probably pick up a pair of these Space Maxims.  

I am disappointed that they put Snowtroopers on them though.  Stormtroopers would have been nice, or, even better, including both a Stormtrooper and Snowtrooper crew so we could have options.  I'll probably just repaint the included crew to be Galactic Marines, but it would have been nice to give Stormies some love. 

I would have liked to seen them with Scout Troopers.

[Zerker 91]

22 minutes ago, Tealadin said:

This is cool and all, but why are there only Snowtrooper/Hoth trooper crew? Yes we only see the 1.4FD on Hoth, but the first time we see the E-Web its used against the Falcon on Tatooine. This should really come with standard trooper crew or snow crew.

I don't think it appeared on the Tatooine sequence, but it was definitely being set up by snow troopers on Hoth in ESB.

[Orkimedes 592]

24 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

laser cannon on an ATRT has range 2-4 and impact 3.  I don't know, I think a lot of this boils down to which scenario you play and what the terrain looks like. IF you do a lot of hills and trees, the cannon could be fine. If you do a lot of buildings your cannon may never get a shot off.

That’s definitely true.  The FD is a little cheaper though, and throws twice as many dice.

It will be interesting to see how they classify “emplacement troopers” as it relates to cover.  If an FD can get cover behind a barricade it will be a lot more survivable than an at-rt.

[Rettere 247]

23 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

laser cannon on an ATRT has range 2-4 and impact 3.  I don't know, I think a lot of this boils down to which scenario you play and what the terrain looks like. IF you do a lot of hills and trees, the cannon could be fine. If you do a lot of buildings your cannon may never get a shot off.

Yeah I gotta agree the butter bucket doesn’t seem that special since we already have the ATRT laser. Especially since I don’t even run the ATRT laser because I am solidly in the ‘ignore the ATST’ camp.

[Tealadin 51]

1 minute ago, Zerker said:

I don't think it appeared on the Tatooine sequence, but it was definitely being set up by snow troopers on Hoth in ESB.

Just watched the scene on youtube, doesn't show up there...but I swear there is a cut of the movie (probably my old VHS) where a pair of troopers run out and set one up...

It's too difficult to be an accurate Star Wars fan with the dozen different cuts of the first 3 films...

 

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

7 minutes ago, Zerker said:

I don't think it appeared on the Tatooine sequence, but it was definitely being set up by snow troopers on Hoth in ESB.

The first canon appearance of the E-Web was ESB.

Just now, Tealadin said:

Just watched the scene on youtube, doesn't show up there...but I swear there is a cut of the movie (probably my old VHS) where a pair of troopers run out and set one up...

It's too difficult to be an accurate Star Wars fan with the dozen different cuts of the first 3 films...

 

Agreed, Wookiepedia doesn't list any other movie appearances, and typically has stuff from all the various cuts. I think we (I seem to recall something similar as well) are either conflating the scene from ESB with ANH, or some video game cutscene or something. 

 

30 minutes ago, Tealadin said:

This is cool and all, but why are there only Snowtrooper/Hoth trooper crew? Yes we only see the 1.4FD on Hoth, but the first time we see the E-Web its used against the Falcon on Tatooine. This should really come with standard trooper crew or snow crew.

Because those are the models that are most recognizable with the weapons. They want the art on the box to evoke the scenes from the films, and the models to match the art on the box. As for why they don't include spare bodies, why didn't they make the heads on the Rebel troopers swappable and include some spare near human heads? It's cheaper to only do what is necessary than include extra plastic that will end up in a bits box. 

Plus it might have been easier for them to get approval for the kits with the uniforms of the troopers we see using the weapons in the films.

[Tonytt1642 56]

1 minute ago, Caimheul1313 said:

The first canon appearance of the E-Web was ESB.

Agreed, Wookiepedia doesn't list any other movie appearances, and typically has stuff from all the various cuts. I think we (I seem to recall something similar as well) are either conflating the scene from ESB with ANH, or some video game cutscene or something. 

 

Because those are the models that are most recognizable with the weapons. They want the art on the box to evoke the scenes from the films, and the models to match the art on the box. As for why they don't include spare bodies, why didn't they make the heads on the Rebel troopers swappable and include some spare near human heads? It's cheaper to only do what is necessary than include extra plastic that will end up in a bits box. 

Plus it might have been easier for them to get approval for the kits with the uniforms of the troopers we see using the weapons in the films.

I like think of them as hazardous environment troopers, rather than specifically cold weather troopers. Gives you more scope to include them in non Hoth armies. Its not like the other Storm Troopers aren't painted white too!! 

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

1 minute ago, Tonytt1642 said:

I like think of them as hazardous environment troopers, rather than specifically cold weather troopers. Gives you more scope to include them in non Hoth armies. Its not like the other Storm Troopers aren't painted white too!! 

Exactly! Plus, no one is saying you HAVE to paint them up in white and cream. Come up with your own paint scheme, and just think of the"Snowtroopers" as elite troopers. The "Hoth" rebel troopers are just Rebel troopers with a camouflage poncho on, much like the ones used in WW2. 

[Orkimedes 592]

54 minutes ago, Rettere said:

Yeah I gotta agree the butter bucket doesn’t seem that special since we already have the ATRT laser. Especially since I don’t even run the ATRT laser because I am solidly in the ‘ignore the ATST’ camp.

You do have to consider mirror matches though too.  AT-RT laser is money against other AT-RTs.

[ScummyRebel 5,346]

1 hour ago, Tealadin said:

This is cool and all, but why are there only Snowtrooper/Hoth trooper crew? Yes we only see the 1.4FD on Hoth, but the first time we see the E-Web its used against the Falcon on Tatooine. This should really come with standard trooper crew or snow crew.

Because they picked a specific model based on when it was iconically seen.

I am sure stormtrooper models will return for things like the eventual dewback support troop.  

[Rumar 244]

2 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

which is the best anti-armor for Rebels, and is only rivaled by 2 HH12 squads. 

Those HH12 squads are widely shunned. Not because they are bad for their intended purpose, which is fighting armour, but because you need to fight infantry more, because only infantry can take objectives. So a unit, that is good at things you don't need, is bad in the end.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

1 minute ago, Rumar said:

Those HH12 squads are widely shunned. Not because they are bad for their intended purpose, which is fighting armour, but because you need to fight infantry more, because only infantry can take objectives. So a unit, that is good at things you don't need, is bad in the end.

Shunned by who? Do you know how many times I've watched HH12s blow armor up? And Veers makes them even stronger. Their primary purpose may be attacking armor, but 3 black dice is 3 black dice. 

And not all objectives are limited to trooper units.

[Gun4hire 26]

I like to add concussion grenades to HH-12 squads. Its alittle pricey but then the squad has dual purpose some games its a ground assault with grenades and some games it can stay back and punch through armor. Also grenades range 1 help cover the HH-12 range 2-4 when enemies get close.

[Rumar 244]

3 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Shunned by who? Do you know how many times I've watched HH12s blow armor up? And Veers makes them even stronger. Their primary purpose may be attacking armor, but 3 black dice is 3 black dice. 

And not all objectives are limited to trooper units.

You don't win by blowing things up. Especially not by blowing armour up.