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Hold Your Ground + Frontal Assault - New Support Units For Each Faction

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2 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Force push specifies Enemy trooper doesn't it?

Doh. Yes it does. Speed 1 move

edit: The 1.4FD can’t perform moves except pivots, so that at least is immune to force push too. 

Edited by Derrault

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I'm disappointing that the Laser does less damage to enemy trooper squads then a Normal 6 man Rebel Squad with a Z-6. The Z-6 squad is only 2 points more but does MUCH better damage against enemy troopers in every situation (no cover, cover, dodge, aim, etc). I wasn't really expecting the Laser to be hugely better, but since it can't move and is about as expensive I was sure it wouldn't be worse. It is (unsurprisingly) better against Armor, but also not as much as I would expect. 

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5 minutes ago, Jake the Hutt said:

I'm disappointing that the Laser does less damage to enemy trooper squads then a Normal 6 man Rebel Squad with a Z-6. The Z-6 squad is only 2 points more but does MUCH better damage against enemy troopers in every situation (no cover, cover, dodge, aim, etc). I wasn't really expecting the Laser to be hugely better, but since it can't move and is about as expensive I was sure it wouldn't be worse. It is (unsurprisingly) better against Armor, but also not as much as I would expect. 

Yeah, it seems to be a flavor unit that won't see much action. Putting it into standby seems to be the best one can do with it. Pretty much anything else would be better.

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Just now, Mep said:

Yeah, it seems to be a flavor unit that won't see much action. Putting it into standby seems to be the best one can do with it. Pretty much anything else would be better.

The range 4 is nice,as is standby at range 3, but I was hoping that it would be a good deterrent against speeder bikes and flanking troopers, and I just don't think it is. Interestingly, the E-Wed is MUCH better at damaging Rebels than the Laser is at Damaging Imperials, although its worse against Armor of course. I suppose thats supposed to be the tradeoff, but with only a single Imperial armored unit (that apparently isn't getting much play) I would have much rather had something thats good at dealing with Speeder bikes.

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50 minutes ago, Zoring said:

Sorry if it's been asked, but will these units also be released with standard Stormtroopers/Rebel Troopers not just the Hoth ones?

Painting them such that they fit with the rest of your units is the best answer in my opinion. So far FFG have not released the same model with different uniforms. Nothing forces you to paint them as Snowtroopers or Hoth troopers.

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Just now, Caimheul1313 said:

Painting them such that they fit with the rest of your units is the best answer in my opinion. So far FFG have not released the same model with different uniforms. Nothing forces you to paint them as Snowtroopers or Hoth troopers.

It would be really nice if they included two extra bodies in the box though. It would be a pretty minimal expense.

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8 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Painting them such that they fit with the rest of your units is the best answer in my opinion. So far FFG have not released the same model with different uniforms. Nothing forces you to paint them as Snowtroopers or Hoth troopers.

Well except the Snowtrooper uniform is radically divergent from the Stormtrooper uniform is the problem, much less so for the Rebels

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55 minutes ago, Jake the Hutt said:

The range 4 is nice,as is standby at range 3, but I was hoping that it would be a good deterrent against speeder bikes and flanking troopers, and I just don't think it is. Interestingly, the E-Wed is MUCH better at damaging Rebels than the Laser is at Damaging Imperials, although its worse against Armor of course. I suppose thats supposed to be the tradeoff, but with only a single Imperial armored unit (that apparently isn't getting much play) I would have much rather had something thats good at dealing with Speeder bikes.

I actually think this will be great at dealing with bikes. They have to move into range 3 to shoot them, triggering standby. It also provides a pretty solid area of denial, possibly protecting your troopers from being flanked. If the bikes try it anyway, they get lit up.

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1 minute ago, Qwrety77 said:

I actually think this will be great at dealing with bikes. They have to move into range 3 to shoot them, triggering standby. It also provides a pretty solid area of denial, possibly protecting your troopers from being flanked. If the bikes try it anyway, they get lit up.

Maybe. I may be underestimating it.  But against bikes the Laser only averages 1.4 hits ( 0.89 if the bikes have a Dodge token or are in Heavy cover,  0.56 if they have both). Thats not much of a deterrent, and bikes can close that distance fast. They also have the speed to simply out flank the Laser's front arc (although that won't always be an option).  If the bikes can get close enough to shoot (which seems likely) they'll do an average of 2.5 damage in return (or 3.1 if they Aim).  

I think the bikes are likely to win a one on one exchange with the Laser, although since they're more expensive maybe thats to be expected. But I was hoping the laser would be a better deterrent for them than it actually is. As it stands now the bikes can probably tank one or maybe even two rounds of fire and still be at full strength. The turret will likely be gone after two rounds of fire from the bikes. But thats also in a  vacuum. I'm curious to see how it will play out on the board.

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Is was hoping for regular STs coming with the E-Web... so I hope for a good and easy to follow tutorial on how to convert them. But if it’s not possible I take them as they are and paint them as wood-troopers again.

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3 hours ago, Jake the Hutt said:

I'm disappointing that the Laser does less damage to enemy trooper squads then a Normal 6 man Rebel Squad with a Z-6. The Z-6 squad is only 2 points more but does MUCH better damage against enemy troopers in every situation (no cover, cover, dodge, aim, etc). I wasn't really expecting the Laser to be hugely better, but since it can't move and is about as expensive I was sure it wouldn't be worse. It is (unsurprisingly) better against Armor, but also not as much as I would expect. 

Along with Range 4, which actually covers a much bigger area, the other obvious benefit of the Laser Cannon is that it retains all its attack dice even when it is taking hits, down to the last point, whereas the trooper squads shed attack dice along with their wounds. And with range 4 it can throw all those dice back at anything that is trying to kill it.

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1 minute ago, Zerker said:

Along with Range 4, which actually covers a much bigger area, the other obvious benefit of the Laser Cannon is that it retains all its attack dice even when it is taking hits, down to the last point, whereas the trooper squads shed attack dice along with their wounds. And with range 4 it can throw all those dice back at anything that is trying to kill it.

That is true. And thats an advantage. But... the Rebel Z-6 squad does hit harder in every situation (except against armor), and the Z-6 squad needs to lose a few guys before that changes. I also think that because the Z-6 squad is mobile they're harder to simply hide from. And while the Laser does have a beefy 6 wounds, 2 rounds of Aim+Shoot from a Storm Trooper DLT squad or speeder bikes will very likely take it out (without taking 50% losses in return).

But you are right. That range 4 is something we didn't really have a lot of access to before, and being able to fully attack right down to the last wound is a benefit. I just suspect that we're going to find these to be underwhelming on teh table.

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That is true. And thats an advantage. But... the Rebel Z-6 squad does hit harder in every situation (except against armor), and the Z-6 squad needs to lose a few guys before that changes. I also think that because the Z-6 squad is mobile they're harder to simply hide from. And while the Laser does have a beefy 6 wounds, 2 rounds of Aim+Shoot from a Storm Trooper DLT squad or speeder bikes will very likely take it out (without taking 50% losses in return).

It would be interesting to see how it works in practice. Moving a single squad into range three and taking two rounds of Aim+Shooting would mean two or three rounds of full dice return fire plus suppression from the barrage card which may be a viable option. You may be better to try to kill it off in a single turn with multiple units but it still wouldn't be painless and it could be well supported by friendly units. Strafing it with compulsory move (out of arc) -> shoot -> move into cover speeder attacks might be the safest approach. Otherwise I suspect you going to finish with at least one fairly tattered squad.

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2 minutes ago, Zerker said:

It would be interesting to see how it works in practice. Moving a single squad into range three and taking two rounds of Aim+Shooting would mean two or three rounds of full dice return fire plus suppression from the barrage card which may be a viable option. You may be better to try to kill it off in a single turn with multiple units but it still wouldn't be painless and it could be well supported by friendly units. Strafing it with compulsory move (out of arc) -> shoot -> move into cover speeder attacks might be the safest approach. Otherwise I suspect you going to finish with at least one fairly tattered squad.

Good points. The thing is the Laser just doesn't do very much damage. Against a Storm Trooper squad in cover it only does .67 damage (and only 1.07 if it Aims). Against Speeder Bikes it's 1.43 damage (or 2.05 if it Aims). So I feel like 1 on 1 the Laser loses against either of those units without actually doing serious harm in return. The Storm Troopers might lose 3 guys, but they're more likely to lose just two. The Laser will probably do 2-3 damage to the bikes. Thats not a particularly good trade for the Rebels, and both of those Imperial units are still going to be a threat after. But that is in isolation. As you said, it should be protected by other units. And maybe clever placement of multiple Lasers can create a really nasty overwatch grid?

Maybe the threat of the standby Laser will be enough to make it worthwhile as an area denial piece? Although honestly, I'd mostly just ignore it. It is worth noting that the Barrage generator does make it much  more effective at killing Storm Troopers (1.00 damage against Storm Troopers in cover) and bikes (1.93 damage), and the extra Suppression certainly helps. So that might be a the best build. Of course, that puts it at 7 more points than a full Z-6 squad.

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In any case I think it's going to be an interesting addition both for the players who has it and the opponent who has to deal with it. It may or may not have a place in competitive tournament play but I'm not that bothered... it will add a new dimension to the game.

Also as a (probably) trooper unit though there is also the possibility of parking it behind barricades for cover which will make it a lot more resilient to frontal attacks as well.

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5 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Painting them such that they fit with the rest of your units is the best answer in my opinion. So far FFG have not released the same model with different uniforms. Nothing forces you to paint them as Snowtroopers or Hoth troopers.

When school starts up again for me, and I can get the liscence to a couple of programs, I plan to sculpt variant figures.   

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I'm super excited about the E-WEB.  When they're released, I'll probably pick up a pair of these Space Maxims.  

I am disappointed that they put Snowtroopers on them though.  Stormtroopers would have been nice, or, even better, including both a Stormtrooper and Snowtrooper crew so we could have options.  I'll probably just repaint the included crew to be Galactic Marines, but it would have been nice to give Stormies some love. 

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2 hours ago, Jake the Hutt said:

Good points. The thing is the Laser just doesn't do very much damage. Against a Storm Trooper squad in cover it only does .67 damage (and only 1.07 if it Aims). Against Speeder Bikes it's 1.43 damage (or 2.05 if it Aims). So I feel like 1 on 1 the Laser loses against either of those units without actually doing serious harm in return. The Storm Troopers might lose 3 guys, but they're more likely to lose just two. The Laser will probably do 2-3 damage to the bikes. Thats not a particularly good trade for the Rebels, and both of those Imperial units are still going to be a threat after. But that is in isolation. As you said, it should be protected by other units. And maybe clever placement of multiple Lasers can create a really nasty overwatch grid?

Maybe the threat of the standby Laser will be enough to make it worthwhile as an area denial piece? Although honestly, I'd mostly just ignore it. It is worth noting that the Barrage generator does make it much  more effective at killing Storm Troopers (1.00 damage against Storm Troopers in cover) and bikes (1.93 damage), and the extra Suppression certainly helps. So that might be a the best build. Of course, that puts it at 7 more points than a full Z-6 squad.

It's definitely the impact 2 (or 3 with the upgrade) that you are paying for, as well as the ability to retain all its dice down to 1 wound and the range 4.  There are a lot better options for purely dealing with troopers.

Weapons or units that do multiple things always do poorly in efficiency metrics compared to specialized weapons.

I do like the barrage upgrade.  Rebels don't have access to a suppression weapon yet.

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