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Admiral Deathrain

The vocal minority is an issue

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26 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

A Disney employee isn’t going to come right out and say that Star Wars fans are he problem, lol.

.....WHAT?

you may actually want to look into the things JJ rian and others have been saying about the fans mate, because you are so wrong it's untrue.

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28 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

.....WHAT?

you may actually want to look into the things JJ rian and others have been saying about the fans mate, because you are so wrong it's untrue.

Authorized statements, just like Daisy. Also if you look closely you just might notice a key difference between those two and her.

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2 hours ago, Black Knight Leader said:

 

  All the news articles about her removing her posts have no facts to back up their supposed truth.   If this really was the reason she did what she did, plenty of people, especially from LFL would have confirmed this to be the case with verification from her.  Other people have been harassed in the past into quitting, but that doesn't mean everyone that quits, or deletes their stuff is doing it for the same reasons.

Are you denying that she has been harassed, constently insulted on her instagram? Are you denying that the entry for Rose Tico on wookiepedia was modified to include racial insults?

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5 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Such a simple, black and white issue and somehow even here there is a discussion.

At least this thread is another goldmine to expand the ignore list!

Indeed, mine has grown by a lot thanks to this thread. When the Goomer Gorp types slither out of the weeds screeching about evidence and "not all fans!", it makes it really easy.

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48 minutes ago, Aaron Foss said:

Indeed, mine has grown by a lot thanks to this thread. When the Goomer Gorp types slither out of the weeds screeching about evidence and "not all fans!", it makes it really easy.

I’ll be honest, I’m close to leave this thread And add a couple names myself... I’m still not sure why I still bother....

Edited by Red Castle

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12 minutes ago, Red Castle said:

... I’m still not sure why I still bother....

Because by raising our collective voices to condemn attitudes that are toxic in our communities, we send a clear message to everyone that such attitudes are not welcome and will be condemned in the future. By denying the toxic a place in the communities you care about, you not only push out (and hold at bay) the toxic, but show the folks who are attacked by that toxicity that they are safe to come and join your community.

The official Wookieepedia twitter account had a perfect couple of statements yesterday on the topic:

"When you have a fanbase it's not enough to claim you don't support hatred. You have to actively condemn it. You have to make it clear, "If you engage in this kind of behavior, I don't want you as my fan." Community management matters. Actions speak louder than words."

"If a troll is harassing someone, say something. Condemn it. Will that troll change their ways? Doubtful, but the condemnation isn’t for them. It’s for everyone else to see that this behavior will not be tolerated, so others may be deterred from that behavior in the future."

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On 6/5/2018 at 11:33 AM, kris40k said:

 

Same with Jack Gleeson (GoT Joffrey Baratheon), he quit the business as well.

 

“Never,” he responded. “Thankfully, I’ve evaded that stuff. It’s a question I get asked all the time, but no. I love coming to these conventions, and I love meeting people on the street—hanging out, getting photos… My point is, I’ve met a lot of fans and 0.000% of those fans have been in any way negative. I think every fan thinks that every other fan is a crazy fan [but] everyone’s just as sane as each other. Everyone’s on the same page. Everyone’s pretty OK in the brain that they can realize that I’m an actor and I’m not actually Joffrey. Maybe it’s the shirt.”

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4 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

Also turns out daisy didn't delete hers because of abuse she said and I quote from the independent:

“I’m 24. I have a lot of growing up to do. I have to deal with loads of stuff myself personally. For that to be projected with millions of people watching, that is like a bit of an extra pressure.”

So yeah isn't that a blow to the narrative.

Just to give a little more information on this story. This is from an interview for the 'Glamour' magazine:

GLAMOUR: Your platform is so big now. Does it compel you to be more vocal now about, well, whatever you want to be vocal about?

DR: I find it really difficult. I was on Instagram, trying to do that whole thing, and people weren’t very nice. I posted a thing about gun regulations, because I was at an event in tribute to the Orlando shooting at Pulse [where 49 people were killed and over 50 were wounded]. People weren’t nice about how I looked. And I was like, “I’m out.” Simple as that. That is not what I signed up for.

GLAMOUR: Why was that the last straw?

DR: Everyone said, “It’s because she talked about gun safety,” but it wasn’t. If I want to talk about gun safety, I will talk about gun safety. And I didn’t sign up for people to go, “You’re amazing!” But I didn’t sign up for them to say things like “Your skin is ****,” either…so I took down the post, and then I deleted my account.

https://www.glamour.com/story/daisy-ridley-star-wars-rey-january-2018-cover-story

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I've never seen any star wars fan attack her skin though, that doesn't even sound like something a guy would pay much attention to.

Certainly my issues are with flat performances and Ray being a Mary sue I've never once mentioned her looks.

3 hours ago, Red Castle said:

I’ll be honest, I’m close to leave this thread And add a couple names myself... I’m still not sure why I still bother....

Nah dude echo chambers are bad, sure it can be frustrating but if you don't face opposing ideas your arguments become weak and flabby.

Walk away take a breather but don't hide your head in the sand.

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1 hour ago, Hobojebus said:

Nah dude echo chambers are bad, sure it can be frustrating but if you don't face opposing ideas your arguments become weak and flabby.

Walk away take a breather but don't hide your head in the sand.

No, you misunderstand the situation here. It's not about hiding my head in the sand, or getting frustrated because I face an opposing idea. I have a lot of friends in real life with whom I argue from time to time and I'm quite okay with it. Like you said, if you only suround yourself with people who thinks like you, you won't really evolve. Ideas are meant to be challenged and I love a good discussion about different point of views.

But it's not about having an argument here, it's about trying to make some people show some respect for the victim.

That some of you think that it's a big publicity stunt by Disney, to be honest, I really don't care. I personally think that it is stupid, but if it's your thing, I can't stop you and more importantly, I really don't have the time to waste to argue about it, that's why I simply used sarcasm at first. 

What bothers me though, is that some of you are actually trying to use this situation, to twist it, to push your own little anti-Disney agenda. I think it is highly disrespectful for the victim and is actually overshadowing the real problem: that some stupid internet users think it is a good idea to harass, to insult someone on social media. I think it shows a big lacks of empathy for the victim. There is a time for conspiracy theory, I personnally think this one is not. But who am I to tell you what to do and what not? So why waste my time?

 

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6 hours ago, Red Castle said:

No, you misunderstand the situation here. It's not about hiding my head in the sand, or getting frustrated because I face an opposing idea. I have a lot of friends in real life with whom I argue from time to time and I'm quite okay with it. Like you said, if you only suround yourself with people who thinks like you, you won't really evolve. Ideas are meant to be challenged and I love a good discussion about different point of views.

But it's not about having an argument here, it's about trying to make some people show some respect for the victim.

That some of you think that it's a big publicity stunt by Disney, to be honest, I really don't care. I personally think that it is stupid, but if it's your thing, I can't stop you and more importantly, I really don't have the time to waste to argue about it, that's why I simply used sarcasm at first. 

What bothers me though, is that some of you are actually trying to use this situation, to twist it, to push your own little anti-Disney agenda. I think it is highly disrespectful for the victim and is actually overshadowing the real problem: that some stupid internet users think it is a good idea to harass, to insult someone on social media. I think it shows a big lacks of empathy for the victim. There is a time for conspiracy theory, I personnally think this one is not. But who am I to tell you what to do and what not? So why waste my time?

 

Here's the issue though you can not just listen and believe because people lie, that's why we operate on the principle of innocent until proven guilty.

Asking for evidence is not an unreasonable thing to do, just believing on faith there was abuse belies a lack of critical thinking.

Remember the rolling stone article that said a female student had been assaulted at a frat party, mobs protested outside their place there were demands for them to be expelled and arrested, then it was revealed to be completely false to the extent there wasn't even a party on the night it was supposed to have happened, those kids were put through **** for doing nothing and never got an apology.

These things happen, so I'm not going to **** the community just because someone claims there was abuse.

Habeas corpus.

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2 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

Here's the issue though you can not just listen and believe because people lie, that's why we operate on the principle of innocent until proven guilty.

Asking for evidence is not an unreasonable thing to do, just believing on faith there was abuse belies a lack of critical thinking.

Remember the rolling stone article that said a female student had been assaulted at a frat party, mobs protested outside their place there were demands for them to be expelled and arrested, then it was revealed to be completely false to the extent there wasn't even a party on the night it was supposed to have happened, those kids were put through **** for doing nothing and never got an apology.

These things happen, so I'm not going to **** the community just because someone claims there was abuse.

Habeas corpus.

Are you denying that she has been harassed, constently insulted on her instagram? Are you denying that the entry for Rose Tico on wookiepedia was modified to include racial insults?

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Yes, this disgusting behaviour is the work of few maladjusted basement dwellers.

And yes, because you share a label with them (Star Wars fan) people's attitude to you will change based on their actions.

Think for a moment on how that feels.

This is what pretty much every minority has to put up with on a daily basis.

Then ask yourself if you do this. Do you let the actions of a few extreme members of a group influence your attitude to the whole?

For almost all of us the answer to that is yes. It's a normal human reaction. But that doesn't make it right.

Remember how it feels to be on the receiving end, and endeavour not to be on the delivering end.

Edited by Firespray-32

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1 hour ago, Red Castle said:

Are you denying that she has been harassed, constently insulted on her instagram? Are you denying that the entry for Rose Tico on wookiepedia was modified to include racial insults?

I've seen no evidence of either, primarily because as I've previously stated I don't care and never looked at her or anyone else's Instagram or Facebook I find it a tedious waste of time.

I'm mearly saying asking for evidence is perfectly reasonable, you can not condemn people without it.

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2 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

I've seen no evidence of either, primarily because as I've previously stated I don't care and never looked at her or anyone else's Instagram or Facebook I find it a tedious waste of time.

I'm mearly saying asking for evidence is perfectly reasonable, you can not condemn people without it.

So let me get this straight.

Since you are actually too lazy to look into the story, you think that it is a good idea to make it into a conspiracy theory that serves your anti-Disney agenda, overshadowing the problem about cyberbullying as if it was not a real problem, disrespecting the victim at the same time by denying that it actually happened, and then asking others to do your work and find you evidence that it really happened.

That is actually even sadder than I expected.

What's even sadder, is that while you don't feel like looking for evidence that it did happened is worth your time, you actually take the time to try to find proof that it didn't really happened (like with your very selective Daisy Ridley quote). So not only do you show no empathy for the victim, you actually try to not make her into a victim.

Edited by Red Castle

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44 minutes ago, Red Castle said:

So let me get this straight.

Since you are actually too lazy to look into the story, you think that it is a good idea to make it into a conspiracy theory that serves your anti-Disney agenda, overshadowing the problem about cyberbullying as if it was not a real problem, disrespecting the victim at the same time by denying that it actually happened, and then asking others to do your work and find you evidence that it really happened.

That is actually even sadder than I expected.

What's even sadder, is that while you don't feel like looking for evidence that it did happened is worth your time, you actually take the time to try to find proof that it didn't really happened (like with your very selective Daisy Ridley quote). So not only do you show no empathy for the victim, you actually try to not make her into a victim.

First if someone's bullying you online block them then report them, if they do it over voice coms mute them then report them it's really that simple.

Words can not hurt you, they are not violence.

Second I've still not seen any evidence she is a victim, people have made an assumption which is always risky.

If I claimed the moon was an alien space station it wouldn't be your job to find the evidence proving me wrong, the People making the claim carry the burden of evidence that's how it works.

I'm not denying anything because no proof has been offered, if you have proof I'll happily look at it and if true condemn them for being racists/bigots, but I'm not going to do it based on the say so of people I don't know, and neither should anyone else.

As the the daisy quote I got the location for that from a podcast I was listening to it required no effort on my part, it was mainly about rumours of lucasfilm reorganisation in September but they briefly mention the Instagram thing.

2 hours ago, Ironlord said:

Well they sound like tools but I've never heard of them I'd hardly consider them representative of anyone.

Plus the tone of the article makes me dubious it's clear they have a bias.

And again there's no actual evidence they were effective in their efforts, could just be delusional.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Red Castle said:

So let me get this straight.

Since you are actually too lazy to look into the story, you think that it is a good idea to make it into a conspiracy theory that serves your anti-Disney agenda, overshadowing the problem about cyberbullying as if it was not a real problem, disrespecting the victim at the same time by denying that it actually happened, and then asking others to do your work and find you evidence that it really happened.

That is actually even sadder than I expected.

What's even sadder, is that while you don't feel like looking for evidence that it did happened is worth your time, you actually take the time to try to find proof that it didn't really happened (like with your very selective Daisy Ridley quote). So not only do you show no empathy for the victim, you actually try to not make her into a victim.

@Red Castle, HJ is a troll. Use the ignore function. You’ll thank me. 

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5 hours ago, Sithborg said:

Still, that a group would claim responsibility and credit for bullying an actor is pathetic. And a problem. 

Very much so but isn't there always someone willing to use something like this for their own benefit, people are desperate for any kind of fame good or bad.

Look at shows like big brother people will do anything to win including forming the beast with two backs only to be forgotten a few weeks later having done their reputations serious damage amongst those they know personally.

Article in question utterly failed to prove the groups claims instead featuring a cringe meme, they undercut their whole point by attacking the fans and telling them they have already lost, shill media is gonna shill though.

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13 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

First if someone's bullying you online block them then report them, if they do it over voice coms mute them then report them it's really that simple.

Words can not hurt you, they are not violence.

Second I've still not seen any evidence she is a victim, people have made an assumption which is always risky.

If I claimed the moon was an alien space station it wouldn't be your job to find the evidence proving me wrong, the People making the claim carry the burden of evidence that's how it works.

I'm not denying anything because no proof has been offered, if you have proof I'll happily look at it and if true condemn them for being racists/bigots, but I'm not going to do it based on the say so of people I don't know, and neither should anyone else.

As the the daisy quote I got the location for that from a podcast I was listening to it required no effort on my part, it was mainly about rumours of lucasfilm reorganisation in September but they briefly mention the Instagram thing.

Well, when there is many people bullying you, it can be hard to block them all, that's if you can actually do that on a public page. So I guess the closest solution to that would be... to delete your account and just block all of them by doing so. So I guess Kelly followed your solution to salvation against pathetic online trolls and decided to delete her account.

That you're saying that words can not hurt you... wow. I'm guessing that you never been a victim to verbal abuse or know no one that has been. Words can actually hurts more than physical violence. It can scars your mind and affect your self esteem. A mental scar can be much harder to cure than a physical scar. We are not talking about one insult here that you can snuff at, we are talking constant insults day and day after day. To think that words can not hurt people... I mean, you can't possibly think that, that is a new low for you... but if you really think that words can not hurt you, would it means that you are actually okay with bullying? Because it can't hurt you, right?

Your constant need for evidence to believe this story is actually quite pathetic. Proof or it didn't happen! I mean, you hide under the pretence that it is noble, that it is fighting for the truth and not believing every story you're told, but that's not it. If there is a story about a murder, do you actually need to see a picture of the body to believe that it really happened? I don't think so. Or do you believe that Elvis is still on an island with Jim Morrison? We are not talking about the moon being an alien station here, we are talking about harassement on social media. Something that happened (too often) before and sadly will happen again. And you know why it will happen again? Because of people like you that don't want to believe it unless they see evidence it really happened. People that let it happens as if nothing happened. But that's not all of it. Usually when people ask for evidence for something like this, it's because they don't want to believe it. It doesn't serve their agenda. There is evidence, you just have to look for it. You just have to take a look at the comments on the Star Wars facebook page in the last 6 months and you won't have a hard time believing it. Your hate for Disney as blindfolded you so much from the truth that you have an easier time believing that it is a big publicity stunt than it actually happened. You don't want to believe it, or deny it really happened, simply because it doesn't serve your anti-Disney agenda. But most critics praised the Last Jedi because Disney paid them, right?

With that said, don't bother replying to me, I've already wasted too much time with you. I'll follow Blod advice and simply put you on my ignore list. Your lack of empathy simply disgust me. I had hope that you would turn around, admit that what happened is bad, that maybe it was not the time to push your anti-Disney agenda, but you're too far into denial. So have fun in life. 

Edited by Red Castle

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5 hours ago, Red Castle said:

Well, when there is many people bullying you, it can be hard to block them all, that's if you can actually do that on a public page. So I guess the closest solution to that would be... to delete your account and just block all of them by doing so. So I guess Kelly followed your solution to salvation against pathetic online trolls and decided to delete her account.

That you're saying that words can not hurt you... wow. I'm guessing that you never been a victim to verbal abuse or know no one that has been. Words can actually hurts more than physical violence. It can scars your mind and affect your self esteem. A mental scar can be much harder to cure than a physical scar. We are not talking about one insult here that you can snuff at, we are talking constant insults day and day after day. To think that words can not hurt people... I mean, you can't possibly think that, that is a new low for you... but if you really think that words can not hurt you, would it means that you are actually okay with bullying? Because it can't hurt you, right?

Your constant need for evidence to believe this story is actually quite pathetic. Proof or it didn't happen! I mean, you hide under the pretence that it is noble, that it is fighting for the truth and not believing every story you're told, but that's not it. If there is a story about a murder, do you actually need to see a picture of the body to believe that it really happened? I don't think so. Or do you believe that Elvis is still on an island with Jim Morrison? We are not talking about the moon being an alien station here, we are talking about harassement on social media. Something that happened (too often) before and sadly will happen again. And you know why it will happen again? Because of people like you that don't want to believe it unless they see evidence it really happened. People that let it happens as if nothing happened. But that's not all of it. Usually when people ask for evidence for something like this, it's because they don't want to believe it. It doesn't serve their agenda. There is evidence, you just have to look for it. You just have to take a look at the comments on the Star Wars facebook page in the last 6 months and you won't have a hard time believing it. Your hate for Disney as blindfolded you so much from the truth that you have an easier time believing that it is a big publicity stunt than it actually happened. You don't want to believe it, or deny it really happened, simply because it doesn't serve your anti-Disney agenda. But most critics praised the Last Jedi because Disney paid them, right?

With that said, don't bother replying to me, I've already wasted too much time with you. I'll follow Blod advice and simply put you on my ignore list. Your lack of empathy simply disgust me. I had hope that you would turn around, admit that what happened is bad, that maybe it was not the time to push your anti-Disney agenda, but you're too far into denial. So have fun in life. 

First there's still no evidence that was the reason she closed it down there's just a single post on Twitter from a none official source.

Secondly "sticks and stones may break my bones but words shall never hurt me" that's what I was taught growing up and it's true, did you not read the solo threads where I received insults from several people every time I posted? Cause that didn't stop me or hurt me.

Even you yourself have aimed verbal attacks designed to hurt but I've not taken offense, it's probably a generational thing milenials seem over sensitive in general.

Thirdly evidence is always important you don't buy a supercar because you feel you have enough cash in your bank to afford it, believing things without evidence is gullible and we don't respect gullibility and never have.

And finally there's nothing to empathise with because you've not actually proven there's been any suffering.

Honestly I worry about how you handle life if you struggle so much with civil discourse on a forum.

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