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Admiral Deathrain

The vocal minority is an issue

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15 minutes ago, Red Castle said:

Wow. Way to miss the point...

Eh, he's got a point. Tran's a grown *** woman and  can take care of herself without people white-knighting for her. Why are folks here trying to make it about woman actors getting harassed by rabid fans, and not just harassment in general?

FFS, Lloyd and Gleeson were just kids getting harassed and chased out of Hollywood, somehow Tran catching some **** online is a bigger issue than that?

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Okay, I'm slow. Could you explain to me again how I'm responsible for and obligated and empowered to stop the harassment Ms. Tarn received on her internet account?

I'm still trying to figure out this is my problem because I'm a Star Wars fan. Help me understand how it is okay to label every member of a group complicit in the actions of a few members of the group simply based on their common group membership. Explain to me how I'm a horrible person because I'm a Star Wars fan and some other Star Wars fan was awful to Ms. Tarn.

I'm listening. Explain to me how it is my job to stop all the injustice committed by Star Wars fans everywhere because I am a Star Wars fan. 

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11 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Eh, he's got a point. Tran's a grown *** woman and  can take care of herself without people white-knighting for her. Why are folks here trying to make it about woman actors getting harassed by rabid fans, and not just harassment in general?

FFS, Lloyd and Gleeson were just kids getting harassed and chased out of Hollywood, somehow Tran catching some **** online is a bigger issue than that?

It is common for women. It is uncommon for men.  This isn’t complicated.

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7 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Eh, he's got a point. Tran's a grown *** woman and  can take care of herself without people white-knighting for her. Why are folks here trying to make it about woman actors getting harassed by rabid fans, and not just harassment in general?

FFS, Lloyd and Gleeson were just kids getting harassed and chased out of Hollywood, somehow Tran catching some **** online is a bigger issue than that?

Where did I make it about women actors? It would have been a male actor and my reaction would have been the same. My comments were always about harrassement in general, and that's the point I think Frimmel is missing. It's not about a women getting insulted on the internet, it's about harrassment getting to a point where the actor has to delete her account. What happened to Lloyd and Gleeson is just as bad, and this toxic behavior should really stop.

 

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2 minutes ago, Red Castle said:

Where did I make it about women actors? It would have been a male actor and my reaction would have been the same. My comments were always about harrassement in general, and that's the point I think Frimmel is missing. It's not about a women getting insulted on the internet, it's about harrassment getting to a point where the actor has to delete her account. What happened to Lloyd and Gleeson is just as bad, and this toxic behavior should really stop.

 

@TasteTheRainbow did

Quote

Harassing and threatening female actors is the issue. And that behavior is not just tolerated, but encouraged, in a lot of places on the Internet where Star Wars fans congregate.  

Female actors can have supposedly bad writing or bad acting in other fandoms that are just as large without waking up to thousands of harassing comments  and threats daily. The Star Wars fandom has a sickness. And you can’t fix those by denying them.

 

Edited by kris40k

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The thing that shocked me most was hearing that Daisy Ridley went through the same thing. It's appalling that people continue to be so unkind to other people! I just read through some of the comments on Star Wars' post wishing Kathleen Kennedy a happy birthday. I respect that some people do not agree with how she is directing the franchise. I can also sort of appreciate that somebody might want to post a comment saying, "Happy birthday, Kathleen! Now please give us all a birthday present and toss The Last Jedi down a dark hole and give yourself a do-over!" It's a little rude, but they're free to share their opinion. It's just comments like, "Ugggh... Go away please... Kathleen Kennedy isn't worth celebrating. The Star Wars fan base is more divided and divisive than ever. So, if we should thank you for anything Ms. Kennedy, it should be for messing up the series by under appreciating your fan base." are totally uncalled for. Can you imagine seeing comments like this on your birthday? I admit, I'm a sensitive guy, but I expect this kind of comment would get to most people. It just isn't respectful at all!

The next most shocking thing was hearing that somebody had changed the Wookieepedia page for Rose, adding offensive remarks and racial slurs. WHAT?! That's just not acceptable behavior at all. Where are people learning their manners these days? ...I was about to say something about people not being this rude in person, and that the anonymity of the Internet empowers people to give voice to their mean thoughts, but 1) Facebook isn't exactly anonymous, and 2) I'm sure somebody out there will puff out their chest and proudly declare that they wouldn't be ashamed to say these things to these people's faces, as if it was some badge of courage. Disgusting. It's important to be able to share our opinions, but it's got to be done respectfully, and not with a spirit of hate.

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3 minutes ago, kris40k said:

So one person makes it more specifically about women harrassment 4 hours after the start of the discussion and sudenly it's 'folks' here trying to make it about women?

I think the general discussion from the start have been about harassment in general, it just so happens that the victim here is a women. But there is no need to divert the problem to her gender, because that is not the problem here. And that's what I meant by missing the point.

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4 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

The thing that shocked me most was hearing that Daisy Ridley went through the same thing. It's appalling that people continue to be so unkind to other people! I just read through some of the comments on Star Wars' post wishing Kathleen Kennedy a happy birthday. I respect that some people do not agree with how she is directing the franchise. I can also sort of appreciate that somebody might want to post a comment saying, "Happy birthday, Kathleen! Now please give us all a birthday present and toss The Last Jedi down a dark hole and give yourself a do-over!" It's a little rude, but they're free to share their opinion. It's just comments like, "Ugggh... Go away please... Kathleen Kennedy isn't worth celebrating. The Star Wars fan base is more divided and divisive than ever. So, if we should thank you for anything Ms. Kennedy, it should be for messing up the series by under appreciating your fan base." are totally uncalled for. Can you imagine seeing comments like this on your birthday? I admit, I'm a sensitive guy, but I expect this kind of comment would get to most people. It just isn't respectful at all!

 

Same thing happened on the Facebook Happy Birthday post of John Boyega and Daisy Ridley. It's pretty sad that some people feels the need to spit their anger even on a birthday post...

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13 minutes ago, Red Castle said:

Where did I make it about women actors? It would have been a male actor and my reaction would have been the same. My comments were always about harrassement in general, and that's the point I think Frimmel is missing. It's not about a women getting insulted on the internet, it's about harrassment getting to a point where the actor has to delete her account. What happened to Lloyd and Gleeson is just as bad, and this toxic behavior should really stop.

 

I get that harassment is bad. What I'm not getting is how that's my problem to solve. How am I supposed to stop people I don't know and don't have authority over on a forum I don't frequent from harassing someone there? I am not a law enforcement officer nor a forum moderator nor to the best of my knowledge associated with people who harass Star Wars actors on their social media accounts. What am I supposed to do about this vocal minority? How does simply being a Star Wars fan make their actions my responsibility? Why am I responsible for how someone else chooses to act? 

 

Edited by Frimmel

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11 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

It is common for women. It is uncommon for men.  This isn’t complicated.

Ridley and Tran had to log off some social media sites.

Jake Lloyd gave up his dream of being a hollywood star and stopped acting entirely.

Hayden Christensen was avoiding showing his face with anything doing with Star Wars including not doing cons for years as well as not attending the Star Wars Celebration for fifteen years because of the flack he caught.

4 minutes ago, Red Castle said:

So one person makes it more specifically about women harrassment 4 hours after the start of the discussion and sudenly it's 'folks' here trying to make it about women?

I think the general discussion from the start have been about harassment in general, it just so happens that the victim here is a women. But there is no need to divert the problem to her gender, because that is not the problem here. And that's what I meant by missing the point.

I was trying to be polite and not point fingers at anyone by using a non-specific "folks," but since you required it, I pointed him out for you.

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1 minute ago, Frimmel said:

I get that harassment is bad. What I'm not getting is how that's my problem to solve. How am I supposed to stop people I don't know and don't have authority over on a forum I don't frequent from harassing someone there? I am not a law enforcement officer nor a forum moderator nor to the best of my knowledge associated with people who harass Star Wars actors on their social media accounts. What am I supposed to do about this vocal minority? How does simply being a Star Wars fan make their actions my responsibility? Why am I responsible for how someone else chooses to act? 

 

Maybe don’t post memes about how it’s ridiculous to try to stop harassment?

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5 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

Sorry but thats not true

image.thumb.png.2266eea5a1308f682d296e0e685a7d7e.png

That’s a bit misleading. You’re looking at a group within a group there. Real numbers on sexual harassment for women are around 75-85%. Men are a fraction of that. But neither of those poll numbers is going to hit at what we’re talking about here. 

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5 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Ridley and Tran had to log off some social media sites.

Jake Lloyd gave up his dream of being a hollywood star and stopped acting entirely.

Hayden Christensen was avoiding showing his face with anything doing with Star Wars including not doing cons for years as well as not attending the Star Wars Celebration for fifteen years because of the flack he caught.

I was trying to be polite and not point fingers at anyone by using a non-specific "folks," but since you required it, I pointed him out for you.

How many daily **** threats did Jake get? Daily death threats? There’s a difference between “you’re not that popular so don’t go to the con” and “You might want to hire security in case one of these 40 people who threatened to swat you this week decides to swat you today.”

 

Those are not similar situations. At all.

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19 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I get that harassment is bad. What I'm not getting is how that's my problem to solve. How am I supposed to stop people I don't know and don't have authority over on a forum I don't frequent from harassing someone there? I am not a law enforcement officer nor a forum moderator nor to the best of my knowledge associated with people who harass Star Wars actors on their social media accounts. What am I supposed to do about this vocal minority? How does simply being a Star Wars fan make their actions my responsibility? Why am I responsible for how someone else chooses to act? 

 

You don't have to be a law enforcement officer or a forum moderator. You just have to not be a part of the harrassment, which I'm pretty sure you are not part of so, hooray!, the message was not directed to you!

But acknowledging the problem and not encouraging it (say by a simple like on a harrassing comment) is part of the solution. Not belittling the problem by saying things like ''this woman has a thin skin. Isn't she a strong independent modern woman? She can't handle some anonymous internet criticism'' or not making about ''just a women getting insulted on the internet'' is also part of the solution.

That some actors like Jake Lloyd stop their career because they are being harrassed is not okay.

Edited by Red Castle

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____________ + Internet trolls = Abuse

 

Internet does not = Abuse.  Community does not = Abuse

Within any group there are 'bad' people.  It is the individuals, not the communities fault.  It is the individual's, not the Internet's fault.  Communities can discourage, but will never stop them from cropping up. 

Please don't blame the object or the community as a whole.  Down that road lies bad things (Discrimination, Totalitarianism, Fearmongering, etc.)

 

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18 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

What am I supposed to do about this vocal minority? How does simply being a Star Wars fan make their actions my responsibility? Why am I responsible for how someone else chooses to act? 

 

Not making fun of people who ARE trying to stop them. Speaking out when the subject comes up on forums you DO frequent to say such behavior is unacceptable and not welcome there. Basically, express support for those opposed to such behavior instead of normalizing and enabling it. 

This is a perfect (if comparatively minor) example of the whole  “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Thing. Don’t do nothing. 

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The “Fandom” is a bunch of incel alt right a-holes. Star Wars fans are normal people who like Star Wars. 

You might be part of the “Fandom” if:

1) you think Star Wars owes you something because you played video games and read Thrawn books

2) You think Kathleen Kennedy has a SJW agenda because the sequels feature women with speaking parts. 

3) You think Rian Johnson ruined your childhood

 

Edited by BlodVargarna

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6 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

You might be part of the “Fandom” if:

 

You know, Blod, you aint helping the situation with that broad brush you keep painting with. You keep repeating yourself like it means something while being totally off-base.

You can not like Rian Johnson, Kathleen Kennedy, etc., without being a alt-right a-hole.

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