How to...Triple Cymoon! (Chapters 1, 2 and 3)

[thecactusman17 3,168]

Got to say,  triple ISD is very vulnerable to specific enemy combinations especially without ECM.

My original plan was double Cymoon + Demo, but the fragility makes second player a huge risk. 

[Bertie Wooster 1,121]

Thanks for taking pictures @Phil B! I thought about taking pictures at my SCs but I didn't want to eat up time. 

[Phil B 54]

7 hours ago, Bertie Wooster said:

Thanks for taking pictures @Phil B! I thought about taking pictures at my SCs but I didn't want to eat up time. 

I usually play quite quickly, rounds 1 and 3 were finished with an hour to go. It's a very aggressive list and getting "in their face" is the best way I found to use it, can't really finesse with 3 big angry cheeses, but it is great fun to play.

[Phil B 54]

8 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

Got to say,  triple ISD is very vulnerable to specific enemy combinations especially without ECM.

My original plan was double Cymoon + Demo, but the fragility makes second player a huge risk. 

I had a 7 point bid and had the choice twice, I don't know if that's just the South west of the U.K. way? In the last game the guy had a 12 point bid, but Rikki (4th in the worlds) had written his list, to be a simple but tough one.

I think all lists have a counter and when you meet it you have to adapt, the first game I should have made him play my objectives, as his small ships were never going to really hurt me, so all I had to worry about was his MC75. A Sato, hammerhead swarm with ACMs is a tough one and any bomber swarm will be tough, but I think against those a speed 3 dash to hit the hammerheads or the carriers driving the bombers might be an option. 

Its not a list to be defensive, that's for sure.

[Doppelganger 271]

How do I not die horribly to Raddus with tripple Cs?

[Vae 118]

Played last night with 3 Vader Cymoons (+Kallus +Strategic adviser) vs a Dodonna Defiance, Hammerhead, 2 transports and 130 points of Hera-enabled Rogue aces.

I had a choice of Advanced gunnery, Fighter Ambush and Superior position objectives (I was 2nd) which wasn't easy. I chose AG as the one that would impact the points differential the least. I set up all 3 ISD's on the left and he set up his ships opposite heading to my left which I think was a mistake is it left him with no escape route. I killed a transport on turn 3 and was able to kill Defiance and the hammerhead on turn 4 for the table but lost my double points ISD and the flagship in return.  Result 7-4 to me

Would you have made the same objective choice and if you had then what would you have done if Defiance had been playing keep away and just shooting when I got in range. Try and kill the small ships while trying not to die to the bombers?

[Lochlan 216]

1 minute ago, Vae said:

Played last night with 3 Vader Cymoons (+Kallus +Strategic adviser) vs a Dodonna Defiance, Hammerhead, 2 transports and 130 points of Hera-enabled Rogue aces.

I had a choice of Advanced gunnery, Fighter Ambush and Superior position objectives (I was 2nd) which wasn't easy. I chose AG as the one that would impact the points differential the least. I set up all 3 ISD's on the left and he set up his ships opposite heading to my left which I think was a mistake is it left him with no escape route. I killed a transport on turn 3 and was able to kill Defiance and the hammerhead on turn 4 for the table but lost my double points ISD and the flagship in return.  Result 7-4 to me

Would you have made the same objective choice and if you had then what would you have done if Defiance had been playing keep away and just shooting when I got in range. Try and kill the small ships while trying not to die to the bombers?

Did you not have Gunnery Team on your Cymoons? Because if you did have GT then Advanced Gunnery does literally nothing for you. From the FAQ:

"If either player's objective ship is equipped with Gunnery Team and attacks from the same hull zone during its activation, that ship cannot target the same ship or squadron more than once during its activation." 

[Mad Cat 2,090]

13 minutes ago, Doppelganger said:

How do I not die horribly to Raddus with tripple Cs?

Do you have an example list you are worried about or some real game horror stories?

I must admit I haven't played against him with my triple Cymoon or Double Cymoon + VSDII lists.

On a general note a MC75, Mon Karren or Defiance dropping in, out of our overlapping arcs is probably our worst threat. If the enemy place well you will probably never get this ship in your front arcs for the rest of the game. Running away from it and being aggressive to the rest of his fleet is probably the best counter. For this reason you don't want your ISDs too close together so he can double arc 2 ISDs by appearing between them and shooting whichever you cannot move to safety.

Usually Cymoons like to run together covering your flanks by your ships bases and widening the death zone created by Gunnery Team front arcs. Take a good look at the remaining enemy forces apart from the deep striker. With 100 - 140 points arriving from reserve the remaining fleet shouldn't be too much of a threat so you are less likely to need the tight formation to survive. Cymoons 9-12" apart rather than the more usual 2-5" means the arriving ship can aim for one of them in a deadly way but probably only mildly annoying way on a secondary target. Keep your speed up and activate the threatened ship before he can pull the trigger. If he blocks your threatened ship by appearing to the front then at least he is in your preferred arc and so Raddus didn't get him that much advantage as he could have just driven a large ship there normally. If he blocks your Cymoon with another ship so the arriving ship can gang up on you then you could be in trouble but what are your other two Cymoons doing and why aren't they blasting that blocking ship for you. If the blocker is also a large ship then trading one for one you shouldn't loose out as Cymoons in our type of list tend to be 119-130 points + the commander who is often protected by being the middle ship.

Rather than using a line abreast formation look at the triangle or inverse triangle formation. This creates a second wave able to punish an arriving ship or force him to delay arrival by another turn letting you beat up other forces.

Watch out for the flight path of the ship he is going to hyperspace in with. a CR90 approaching is an ideal platform being fast and survivable at long range. It may need to get in closer than that if it wants to land a big ship in your backfield and this can be risky. Anything you can do to soften this ship up could encourage it to bring in the big threat early and therefore in your front arcs.

Smaller Raddus arrivals like Admonition, Salvation or Garrel's Honour can be taken on the chin (or rather on the rear) and ignored for a while. Probably your flank firepower even from 2 Cymoons isn't enough to kill the interloper for at least 2 turns worth of firing so just press your attack on others and keep firing with your flank/rear arcs to hopefully discourage this ship form chasing you all game.

[Doppelganger 271]

1 minute ago, Mad Cat said:

Do you have an example list you are worried about

This (going to see that on the weekend):

 

JJ:

Mc30 T
Ordnance Experts
Assault Proton Torps
h9 Turbolasers
Admontion

Hammerhead Torp
Ordnance Experts
External Racks

Gr75
Slicer tools

Mc75 Ordnance
Strategic Advisor
Ordnance Experts
Electronic Countermeasures
External Racks
Assault Proton Torps
Profundity

Cr90A
Admiral Raddus
Hondo
Turbolaser Reroute Circuits

Gr75
Comms Net

Station Assault, Contested Outpost, Dangerous Territory

386

[Vae 118]

8 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

Did you not have Gunnery Team on your Cymoons? Because if you did have GT then Advanced Gunnery does literally nothing for you. From the FAQ:

"If either player's objective ship is equipped with Gunnery Team and attacks from the same hull zone during its activation, that ship cannot target the same ship or squadron more than once during its activation." 

Of course - that's a given so AG did nothing for me other than making Defiance an extra 114 points for me (so I won 514-387).

[Mad Cat 2,090]

1 minute ago, Vae said:

Of course - that's a given so AG did nothing for me other than making Defiance an extra 114 points for me (so I won 514-387).

Yup I would have chosen Advanced Gunnery too. Fighter Ambush and Superior positions can really rack up points more than an extra 112 for a Cymoon.

But what if your opponent had given the AG objective ship to a Flotilla knowing full well that you couldn't benefit? Yes he looses the double shot with his Defiance but now it is just a Most Wanted scenario without the extra dice.  He can keep the flotilla far away - giving out comms net tokens and loosing an extra 18 points if things go bad.

[Vae 118]

1 minute ago, Mad Cat said:

Yup I would have chosen Advanced Gunnery too. Fighter Ambush and Superior positions can really rack up points more than an extra 112 for a Cymoon.

But what if your opponent had given the AG objective ship to a Flotilla knowing full well that you couldn't benefit? Yes he looses the double shot with his Defiance but now it is just a Most Wanted scenario without the extra dice.  He can keep the flotilla far away - giving out comms net tokens and loosing an extra 18 points if things go bad.

I would have been less worried as I would have sat my AG ISD in an inverted wedge behind the other 2. If Defiance wanted to come in for it then it would die without shooting me twice as hard even if it didn't give me double points. If his fighters came for it then I would be able to get multiple flak arcs on them and line up engineering commands only.

[Admiral Calkins 802]

16 minutes ago, Vae said:

Of course - that's a given so AG did nothing for me other than making Defiance an extra 114 points for me (so I won 514-387).

Same thing happened to me in my SC.  Much rather give AG to an ISD-II (and then kill it and get the points) than give Fighter Ambush or Superior Positions to his TIE Bomber Swarm.

[ovinomanc3r 3,865]

29 minutes ago, Vae said:

Played last night with 3 Vader Cymoons (+Kallus +Strategic adviser) vs a Dodonna Defiance, Hammerhead, 2 transports and 130 points of Hera-enabled Rogue aces.

I had a choice of Advanced gunnery, Fighter Ambush and Superior position objectives (I was 2nd) which wasn't easy.

Were you second and had to choose objectives? 

30 minutes ago, Vae said:

Would you have made the same objective choice and if you had then what would you have done if Defiance had been playing keep away and just shooting when I got in range. Try and kill the small ships while trying not to die to the bombers?

Maybe. I have to say I have played Fighter Ambush several times with a squadron focused fleet and I wouldn't say that objective is gold. It provides less points it seems at first but I agree it is the safest choice. However it also gives you free AA fire if your opponent want to farm points from the beginning. 

[Doppelganger 271]

24 minutes ago, Mad Cat said:

Do you have an example list you are worried about or some real game horror stories?

I must admit I haven't played against him with my triple Cymoon or Double Cymoon + VSDII lists.

On a general note a MC75, Mon Karren or Defiance dropping in, out of our overlapping arcs is probably our worst threat. If the enemy place well you will probably never get this ship in your front arcs for the rest of the game. Running away from it and being aggressive to the rest of his fleet is probably the best counter. For this reason you don't want your ISDs too close together so he can double arc 2 ISDs by appearing between them and shooting whichever you cannot move to safety.

Usually Cymoons like to run together covering your flanks by your ships bases and widening the death zone created by Gunnery Team front arcs. Take a good look at the remaining enemy forces apart from the deep striker. With 100 - 140 points arriving from reserve the remaining fleet shouldn't be too much of a threat so you are less likely to need the tight formation to survive. Cymoons 9-12" apart rather than the more usual 2-5" means the arriving ship can aim for one of them in a deadly way but probably only mildly annoying way on a secondary target. Keep your speed up and activate the threatened ship before he can pull the trigger. If he blocks your threatened ship by appearing to the front then at least he is in your preferred arc and so Raddus didn't get him that much advantage as he could have just driven a large ship there normally. If he blocks your Cymoon with another ship so the arriving ship can gang up on you then you could be in trouble but what are your other two Cymoons doing and why aren't they blasting that blocking ship for you. If the blocker is also a large ship then trading one for one you shouldn't loose out as Cymoons in our type of list tend to be 119-130 points + the commander who is often protected by being the middle ship.

Rather than using a line abreast formation look at the triangle or inverse triangle formation. This creates a second wave able to punish an arriving ship or force him to delay arrival by another turn letting you beat up other forces.

Watch out for the flight path of the ship he is going to hyperspace in with. a CR90 approaching is an ideal platform being fast and survivable at long range. It may need to get in closer than that if it wants to land a big ship in your backfield and this can be risky. Anything you can do to soften this ship up could encourage it to bring in the big threat early and therefore in your front arcs.

Smaller Raddus arrivals like Admonition, Salvation or Garrel's Honour can be taken on the chin (or rather on the rear) and ignored for a while. Probably your flank firepower even from 2 Cymoons isn't enough to kill the interloper for at least 2 turns worth of firing so just press your attack on others and keep firing with your flank/rear arcs to hopefully discourage this ship form chasing you all game.

Thanks for the advice. I played Raddus a few times and more often then not massacred my enemy so I have a healthy dose of respect for his abilities, maybe too healthy.

[Vae 118]

1 minute ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Were you second and had to choose objectives? 

Maybe. I have to say I have played Fighter Ambush several times with a squadron focused fleet and I wouldn't say that objective is gold. It provides less points it seems at first but I agree it is the safest choice. However it also gives you free AA fire if your opponent want to farm points from the beginning. 

Yes I lost the bid so was forced to be 2nd.

Fighter Ambush I was tempted by as the fighters have to deal damage cards not just damage but with hull 5,6,7,8 rebel brace aces the likelihood of killing them with double black flak is low.

[Bertie Wooster 1,121]

5 minutes ago, Vae said:

Yes I lost the bid so was forced to be 2nd.

Fighter Ambush I was tempted by as the fighters have to deal damage cards not just damage but with hull 5,6,7,8 rebel brace aces the likelihood of killing them with double black flak is low.

If you were second player, your opponent should choose from YOUR objectives.

[Vae 118]

1 minute ago, Bertie Wooster said:

If you were second player, your opponent should choose from YOUR objectives.

Sorry - I was first player - that's me rushing to reply and not thinking!

[Bertie Wooster 1,121]

10 minutes ago, Vae said:

Sorry - I was first player - that's me rushing to reply and not thinking!

I probably would've played AG too. If you picked Fighter Ambush he might have killed two ISDs and gotten an extra 150-250 points. At least you killed his AG Defiance and won 7-4, that's pretty good I'd say!

Edited August 15, 2018 by Bertie Wooster

[AdmiralRyan 32]

12 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:

I probably would've played AG too. If you picked Fighter Ambush he might have killed two ISDs and gotten an extra 150-250 points. At least you killed his AG Defiance and won 7-4, that's pretty good I'd say!

I was @Vae's opponent yesterday (still trying for my first win vs him ?) and it was tough. I didn't give myself an escape route and skirted too close to the flank meaning he was able to box my Defiance in.

Tough game, with lots of lessons learned!

[Bertie Wooster 1,121]

23 minutes ago, AdmiralRyan said:

I was @Vae's opponent yesterday (still trying for my first win vs him ?) and it was tough. I didn't give myself an escape route and skirted too close to the flank meaning he was able to box my Defiance in.

Tough game, with lots of lessons learned!

I remember trying very hard to beat my friend Ben, he's the one who taught me how to play, it was so satisfying the first time I beat him.

[ovinomanc3r 3,865]

2 hours ago, Bertie Wooster said:

I remember trying very hard to beat my friend Ben, he's the one who taught me how to play, it was so satisfying the first time I beat him.

Wait! Did you win Ben? That’s astonishing! 

[Ginkapo 8,363]

@Vergilius

Why am I hearing stories of Ben getting beat? 

[Bertie Wooster 1,121]

57 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Wait! Did you win Ben? That’s astonishing! 

Wrong Ben. I should probably clarify "no, not that Ben" every time I mention him...

Edited August 15, 2018 by Bertie Wooster

[Vergilius 2,074]

There is only one Classic Ben.