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How to...Triple Cymoon! (Chapters 1, 2 and 3)

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11 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

Question regarding this archetype:  Does the core strength of triple cymoon come from the firepower saturation at range,  the sheer hull bulk keeping it alive, or the platform flexibility for maneuvering into place?

I'm considering a variation, and it's lethal, but it is also fragile.

IMHO is a bit of all that. I found them pretty well rounded. I swapped commanders with basically the same results*. Definititely long range saturation fire is what could come to your mind at first but it is not different from Ackbar's whales (overlapping fire arcs of 5 red dice) in that regard. Hull is impressive but tanky fleets are able to tank even more. And of course there are fleets with far better maneuverability. But you it is hard to find a fleet that compete with this in all three areas. Deployment can be fixed with formation tactics and only activation is where this fleet sucks but, hey, it is not just good on everything else rather than excellent. Of course all is focused on the same thing. Maneuvering keeps your enemies under your fire, hull keeps you firing so long range fire is what shine here. But as I said, it is not different from Ackbar on that. It is more than the other strenghts make the fire matters.

*The iterations (with commanders basically) fix/improve different areas. JJ allow even better maneuvering (which also allow more CF/engineering commands), Tarkin and Thrawn make the native flexibility of the fleet just ridiculous, Motti does [nothing] your ships tankier to keep firing and keeping the MoV game easier. I found Vader the best cause he improves the only thing it doesn't come with the Cymoon and its strengths cannot help.

If your variation is more fragile it could work as long as your firepower increase the same proportion. I consider DC-VSD could work. Their first shot is better and being cheaper allow you to improve their fire with tech like xi7. If you manage to get medium range fire then it will be ok. But they also have other weak points. Not tested yet.

8 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

Do you think 2 Cymoons could do it if the third ship was backup?

They could do. It will depend on the type of backup. I use my flagship as a backup ship providing IF and also fire on whatever managed to flank its mates. Activation backup definititely will help. I dunno. Probably a DC-VSD (with Pryce?) could help a lot as a backup providing also xi7. Its lower speed won't hurt to keep it  behind and between the Cymoons. It will hurt if you want to throw a rush on the enemy fleet though. An interdoctor could be fine but not sure how well it will work. G8 could be interesting cause at speed 3 (maximun fake-speed) is basically impossible to flank a Cymoon without taking shots but how to keep the dictor at range to use it?

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Before switching to a triple Cymoon list I was using for a while.....

397/400, Blockade Run, Contested Outpost, Solar Corona
ISD-Cymoon, GT, QBT, Vader
ISD-Cymoon, GT, QBT, Strategic Adviser
VSD-II, GT, DC, HIEs, QBT

I took it to a seasonal tournament in April at Beanie Games and played the same guy who beat my triple Cymoon list (see my post on page 3 of this thread from 9 July). His list then was slightly different using H9s rather than XI7s. I beat him in the same Solar Corona scenario with the list with the VSD but I lost with the triple Cymoons. The HIEs really helped shooting each of his ISDIIs with GTs on 2 successive turns doing the crit to each ship once. I lost the flagship and VSD but killed both his ISDs. The extra QBTs and HIEs give more firepower but the slow speed of the VSD means the list will suffer against some opponents. You can't rush carriers as you can with three Cymoons and you are more of a reactive force using the slower VSD as bait or a shield around which the faster Cymoons can manoeuvre.

I have also considered a pair of Arquitens in place of a Cymoon and a BT Avenger ISD-I. BT Avenger would only rarely be first player and helps with cracking large ships but killing a big ship isn't something 3 Cymoons have trouble with. It also takes away from the long range threat and the ability to effectively soften up targets so you get quick kills on your second turn of intense combat meaning less enemy fire to kill your ships.

Tripple Cymoon - The best defence is a good offence. Lord Vader rules!

Arquitens would help with activations and work well with Vader. Even with Motti, JerJerod  or Thrawn they will be fine with an Intensify Fire from one of the Cymoons and a TRC or DTT for dice quality.  Their firepower keeps with the Cymoon theme but you need to watch out for their survival. They can be bombed to death in a single turn or shot by XI7 armed large volleys. They are flank firepower ships who can go around the sides and once out of enemy primary arcs can constantly throw in decent volleys to add to the big hitting Cymoons and overload defence tokens. Especially with Moff JJ they can dance around the limits of long range. Or you can just slow roll with the Cymoons regarding them as extra hull or RBDs for the Cymoons - If he is shooting Kittens in a slow moving slugfest, sooner or later he will be faced with 2 fresh Cymoons who are now taking their third GT shots.

 

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Im still coming up empty trying to figure this out. Without building specifically to counter it or taking a "if you cant beat em join em" attitude how do you beat this? Raddus seems like an obvious choice but even he seems like he would struggle. I prefer to build imperial and I like to use "conventional" tactics over cheese or chince (never mind playing against them tho). With a week before and a couple weeks after my game with @Admiral Calkins I cant think of anything that beats/competes with this that isnt some iteration of itself. Am I just missing something obvious or are we going to see some patching?

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5 hours ago, Nagasadow said:

Im still coming up empty trying to figure this out. Without building specifically to counter it or taking a "if you cant beat em join em" attitude how do you beat this? Raddus seems like an obvious choice but even he seems like he would struggle. I prefer to build imperial and I like to use "conventional" tactics over cheese or chince (never mind playing against them tho). With a week before and a couple weeks after my game with @Admiral Calkins I cant think of anything that beats/competes with this that isnt some iteration of itself. Am I just missing something obvious or are we going to see some patching?

Make him play YOUR objectives and maneuver as well as you can.  Make him come into you, kill one ISD and run.  Don't attempt to bite off a second unless  you're sure you CAN do it.

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You must have in mind that this fleet is build around a core idea: no big looses. So don't hope for a big win unless you can get points out of the fleet (objective points).

Things that can help:

Activations. However be careful how you play it cause long range is not a safe place to be. But the fleet is quite easy to last-first.

Bid. I would probably let them being first. Both, Blockade Run and Solar Corona are deadly traps and Contested Outpost is another one as it gives 120 making useless to kill one ISD. Maybe an interdictor with GSR could play it but you have better chances with your own objectives. Advanced Gunnery is good but risky. Most Wanted is gold; more dice to put down one ISD and it counts for two! Also Precision Strike. Hyperspace Assault works, also Fighter Ambush. Don't Fleet Ambush even if you think close range is good to you. It's easy to rush through your fleet quickly and run. Two ISD in your face is too much to handle for most fleets. Fire Lanes is a good idea with strategic. Also Superior Positions or Sensor Net. Just have in mind to run away cause those objective give points but also make easy to be hunted. Mine fields and Planetary Ion Cannon is a good way to shot further than them.

Rhymer+Tie Bombers should be good as they can bomb without squadrons commands fairly well taking advantage from close range and big bases. They are also cheap and powerful. Just 106 points put 11 damage. Also rogues... Firesprays and Decimators could work well, I dunno. The only problem squadron fleets have against triple Cymoon is to find the carriers destroyed but with activation advantage, deployment advantage and boosted coms a quasar at speed 3 should be able to run away at the same time it is commanding squadrons. 

 

I didn't play against it yet (I play them) so almost every is theory but what hurt or would hurt me more is:

1. Get an alternative and good source of points out of the Cymoons.

2. Keep your carrier out of range. 

3. Defense Token mitigation like H1, xi7, H9 is a good idea (as your own defense device like ECM, Brunson, etc.) if you want to fight them 

4. Deploy on different corners. This one doesn't make you win but steal big win chances from them. 

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Most wanted does seem like a really good pick, I just wish I could force it in. 

My fleet is already low on activation's so I may have just found my hard counter. Dont make it too popular XD

 

16 hours ago, geek19 said:

Make him play YOUR objectives and maneuver as well as you can.  Make him come into you, kill one ISD and run.  Don't attempt to bite off a second unless  you're sure you CAN do it.

I did make him play my objectives D: He picked capture the VIP, I tried to grab the VIP and run but he blew up my ISD turn 2 and nothing but luck would have been able to stop that from happening without sacrificing more than the 50 points the VIP is worth. 

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9 hours ago, Nagasadow said:

Most wanted does seem like a really good pick, I just wish I could force it in. 

My fleet is already low on activation's so I may have just found my hard counter. Dont make it too popular XD

 

I did make him play my objectives ? He picked capture the VIP, I tried to grab the VIP and run but he blew up my ISD turn 2 and nothing but luck would have been able to stop that from happening without sacrificing more than the 50 points the VIP is worth. 

To force someone to pick Most Wanted you need really nasty objectives. From a quantitative approach you cannot offer a 50 points advantage along with a 110 points one. It requires a really specific case for a fleet to choose it before VIP.

Contested Oupost is a potential 120 points.

Fire Lanes is a potential 270.

Fighter Ambush has no real limit (but is also not that easy to farm).

Superior Positions along with Sensor Net provide almost limitless points.

Solar Corona, despite not giving points it make easier to take them from the opponent's fleet.

 

I don't know your fleet. Maybe it happens just as you said and your fleet found an Achilles heel, but you could try changing you objective setup, and maybe giving up the big win and looking for a way to just save the day.

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On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 11:27 PM, Nagasadow said:

Most wanted does seem like a really good pick, I just wish I could force it in. 

Good point.  

That’s something we haven’t covered in too much detail when playing Triple Cymoon. Which objectives should you choose if you take (or the enemy give you) first player. Back in chapter 2 of this thread @ovinomanc3r analyzed the missions for which to select in your Cymoon list as second player.

So here is a run down on which objectives to choose and a nice, handy score out of five stars. 1 star is absolute suicide for your Cymoons. 2 is bad. 3 is ok, by which I mean averagely biased against you and in favor of the second player. 4 stars is starting to be good for you or at least no advantage whatsoever and 5 stars is "Yippee! What were they thinking giving me this option". Obviously the composition of the enemy fleet is also important and could sway your decision.

 

Advanced Gunnery: If you have 3 sets of Gunnery Teams (and you should) then you gain no benefit for the risk of giving away an extra 112 points. The enemy meanwhile will also give away more 106, 114 or even 120 but they will have a firepower boost at the same time. Even without GTs on one ship the enemy may not give you the satisfaction of double points on a large ship for this mission. Salvation for example can be nasty as the AG ship and only gives away 51 extra points. 1 star.

Most Wanted: Again you get little benefit other than a double points flotilla but loose 112 extras and that ship is easier to kill with free dice added to incoming volleys. 1 star.

Precision Strike: Large ships suffer more from face up cards as they each are a decent percentage of your overall fleet power. You can score a few extras too but bombers in particular will relish the chance to pile on the tokens. 2 stars, 1 star against bombers.

Opening Salvo: Usually taken by enemies with 4-7 combat ships. You only have three but you shoot first with GTs and may get kills early. Try to keep initial shots at longer ranges. 3 stars.

Close-Range Intel: As Cymoons don’t have ECM (unless you include Tua) enemy accuracies will be useful against your ships. You are unlikely to get double unneeded accuracies but overall I don’t think you will suffer huge point deficits in a game. 3 stars

Targeting Beacons: Be sure to place your tokens in a far away corner. His pair of tokens will help with shooting but also may give you a hint during deployment. Your firepower threat could convince enemies to move away from these areas. Slightly more annoying with a source of enemy Strategic but not too bad overall. 3 stars.

Blockade Run: My favorite mission as second player. When the rolls are reversed this is still a good bet. Jousting with 3 GT Cymoons should get you some kills on such a narrow table. If he has lots of ships (6+) be aggressive to threaten many of them with your GTs and kill whichever he cannot save. Line abreast formation may seem awesome but triangle or inverse triangle may be better to catch ships that try to slip by your front arcs. Opponent places all the rocks so watch out for a Grav Shift. 4 stars.

Station Assault: Being out deployed is less important when you know the station locations and that the enemy should try something to stop you killing them. Plan your approach and deal with defenders or the bases. You only really need to kill one so don’t split your ISDs if the bases are far apart. With Gunnery teams you should have plenty of opportunities to allocate spare shots to kill a base but enemy ships are still a priority because they won’t hang around in your front arcs for long whereas the base isn’t going anywhere. 4 stars.

 

Hyperspace Assault: A nasty double arcing GSD, VSD or MC30 appearing between 2 ISDs will savage (but not kill) whichever you don’t activate. Some bombers appearing too are really going to hurt. Your side shots are not going to kill the interloper that quickly so you are likely to suffer again next turn. Triangle formation if you have to, but not recommended. 2 stars.

Fleet Ambush: Squadrons don’t count in deployment which helps, but your ISD is placed first in an advanced position and then the enemy can easily flank it. Deploying 2 ISDs towards the rear of the ambush zone gives you more time to navigate and sets up an inverse triangle formation for you almost by default. 2 stars.

Fire Lanes: Love it or hate it, this mission can give vast point scores over 6 turns, admittedly to either player. Avoid like the plague if Strategic units are in the opposition, especially with an FCT or two.  Decide if you can muscle him away from the tokens or not. This could easily be a 5 star mission for you or a 1 star disaster.

Contested Outpost: There is the base. That’s where you are going. It is also where he is going to be.  Deployment is easier with this information. A big scrap in a small area is perfect for GT Cymoons. Let him have 20 or 40 points then stake your claim. Remember your firing arcs are more important than one turn of base control. 4 stars.

Fighter Ambush: Definitely not. You wont be out deployed as much but bombers are nasty enough without letting them rack up many bonus points. 1 star.

Capture the VIP: It’s only 50 points if things go bad and the enemy may have difficulty claiming the VIP with a first activation Cymoon at speed 3 from it at the start of turn 2. Even with the VIP onboard that Cymoon and his mates will be chasing it down. Not a bad one at all, though enemy strategic will help them out a little. 4 stars, (3 with strategic).  

Jamming Barrier: The barrier will let him hide until you approach, then sneak around your sides at the last minute. The dust fields will probably be more of a pain than the barrier itself... bad idea. Delaying combat and attacking along the axis of the barrier is an option. 2 stars.

Planetary Ion Cannon: This one isn’t too bad against other Imperials but broadside Rebels who can fire and run away will drag you through all 3 tokens to get an easier kill. 2 stars.

 

Superior Positions: You get out deployed (so what’s new?) but the bombers will have a field day against your rear areas. 1 star.  

Intel Sweep: Arrange a trap for the 5th token. Kill the objective ship or intimidate him away. Note your objective ship is 1/3rd of your firepower and his may be only a flotilla so don’t focus on tokens and loose an ISD’s shooting for 3 turns by being out of position. 3 stars.

Dangerous Territory: Grav Shift and strategic can make this tricky but otherwise pretty good. Your ships can easily absorb the obstacle damage. I prefer grabbing the base (if you can) and debris rather than rocks as my placements - the repair is easier and I shouldn’t need the rear arc shields for a while. Keep your obstacles in line (vertically) with his so you can grab yours early and begin a new turn facing his obstacles or the ships on them to get kills. Don’t split your forces for the sake of 15 points. 3 stars.

Minefields: It will be nasty plowing through mines to get to the enemy. If he crates a central dense minefield whichever way you go he turns to go the other way around and you are already likely to be out deployed. Strategic can now be lethal rather than annoying. 1 star.

Salvage Run: 80 points are relatively easy for him and he uses dust clouds to block fire then runs for it. Lots of rocks to travel through to reach the combat area but there the enemy may be concentrated briefly while collecting tokens. Grav Shift and/or strategic will hurt. Dust clouds make Cymoons cry. 2 stars.

Solar Corona: You were going to be out deployed anyway and Vader can reroll blue dice without risk to fish for accuracies after the sunlight removes one. If he has ECM the accuracy may have been negated anyway. If you deploy in a corner the enemy will come at you from up sun around the long flank so you then play Blockade Run without the touchdowns. Not too bad at all so 3 stars.

Navigational Hazards: Cymoons with large bases with a desire to keep enemies in their front arcs makes your path predictable for obstacle movements. Pylon Q7s, Slicer Tools and Konstantine could really make this unpleasant. 1 star.

Sensor Net: The enemy having more ships and possibly strategic & FCTs will be nasty. If you can get kills early then you can redress the balance. You also know the enemy will want to go where the tokens are. This helps get ships in your arcs. Be prepared to just move tokens behind the enemy so they move away from all of them. 2 stars.

 

So how to force Triple Cymoons into Most Wanted?
Take a bomber fleet with 3 combat ships, a 3-5 point bid and include a flotilla. Force the Cymoons to be first player and have
Fighter Ambush and Superior Positions as your other objectives. 1 Star options all round.  

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38 minutes ago, Mad Cat said:

Fleet Ambush: Squadrons don’t count in deployment which helps, but your ISD is placed first in an advanced position and then the enemy can easily flank it. Deploying 2 ISDs towards the rear of the ambush zone gives you more time to navigate and sets up an inverse triangle formation for you almost by default. 2 stars.

I would say 2,5 stars. ?

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Jamming Barrier and Minefields, when coupled with Strategic should be 0 stars. Triple Cymoons should be wrecked if they picked either of these as 1st player.

A good Strategic player with Jamming Barrier is a nightmare to fight with long range attacks, and worst of all, long range front-arc big attacks like ISD/Cymoons have.

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7 hours ago, Thraug said:

Jamming Barrier and Minefields, when coupled with Strategic should be 0 stars. Triple Cymoons should be wrecked if they picked either of these as 1st player.

A good Strategic player with Jamming Barrier is a nightmare to fight with long range attacks, and worst of all, long range front-arc big attacks like ISD/Cymoons have.

Charging through the barrier/clouds at speed 3 seems like a possible strategy.  You’d be closer than is ideal, but 3 ISDs is a lot of firepower they can no longer spend evades against.

Minefields... yeah, minefields would just suck.

Edited by The Jabbawookie

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Yesterday JJ's Triple Cymoons won the day at the Second Star Games (Prescott, AZ) Store Championship.  Below is the list and the Battle Reports.

Name: JJ's Triple Cymoons
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault: Station Assault
Defense: Contested Outpost
Navigation: Solar Corona

ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112) - Moff Jerjerrod (23), Gunnery Team (7) = 142 Points

ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112) - Intensify Firepower! (6), Gunnery Team (7), Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5) = 130 Points

ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112) - Strategic Adviser (4), Gunnery Team (7), Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5) = 128 Points

Squadrons = 0 Points

Total Points: 400

 

The first list I went up against had two MC75s Ordnance Cruisers (one Profundity) and a CR90B, with Raddus as the Commander on the Profundity, and Hera, Ten Numb, Corran Horn, and Dagger Squadron.  He won the coin flip and elected to go second, whereas I chose his Targeting Beacons objective.  He deployed in the center moving left and I deployed on the right wheeling left.  Aside from engaging my center Cymoon with his squadrons (Dagger and Ten were Rogue with Hera), he just seemed to run from me in the hopes of getting a 6-5 for him being second player and neither of us having any points.  Unfortunately for him, I redirected all my front hull damage from the squadrons to my left hull (where he then moved all his squadrons to try and give me some damage cards), only to have them caught in a flak crossfire from the Cymoon on the left.  This led to Dagger Squadron and Ten Numb being destroyed, with no damage to the hull.  He ended up dropping the CR90 then the MC75 in Round 6, hoping to destroy my left Cymoon with a double arc, including Expanded Launchers and External Racks.  Even though he rolled around 14 damage out of his front arc, he had no accuracies, so a brace and redirect kept my hull fully intact after the first front arc salvo, which he couldn't overcome.  Match ended 34-0 for a 6-5 to me.  I talked to him after and apparently the tactic of dropping in his ships later has worked well and caught his previous opponents off guard.  He also usually gets opponents to focus on where he is going only to drop the two ships behind Profundity, but I kept this covered with my right Cymoon, with the center one being just one JJ maneuver away from having him in a pincer (this is one thing I love about the Triple Cymoons, as even if one is not shooting, it is providing a kill zone that deters enemy movement in that front arc).

 

My second opponent ran an ISD-II with Screed, an Interdictor Combat Refit, and Major Rhymer, Mauler Mithel, a Decimator, 2 x TIE Advanceds, an Interceptor, and 5 x TIE Bombers.  He had Advanced Gunnery, Fighter Ambush, and Superior Positions, so I begrudgingly chose Advanced Gunnery.  While I deployed to the left, he deployed his ISD to my right and his Interdictor across from me, but facing his ISD; all his squadrons were by the Interdictor.  Unfortunately, this divided his forces quite a bit, with the Interdictor only being able to help the ISD once in turn 4 (Disposable Caps and Overload Pulse).  In the first Round, he committed all of his bombers against my center Cymoon, which wasn't bad for him until the third turn.  In this turn, he moved all of his seriously wounded squadrons (two rounds of Cymoon flak) in front of my right Cymoon, which was trailing the other two.  Triple flak in Round 4 decimated his squadrons, leaving only Mauler and a TIE Advanced.  As for his ships, both got caught in rams from which they couldn't recover.  His Interdictor was trailing the ISD so much that I divided my forces (I don't like to do this), ramming his Interdictor and eventually destroying it, and ramming the ISD-II with one Cymoon and the other pointing at right hull at close range.  While my center Cymoon eventually was destroyed, so was his ISD for the tabling.  I took that game 9-2.

 

Thoughts:  This is the second SC in which I have played this list, and both times my opponents have deployed in such a way that promotes running away with their ships as opposed to engaging.  The great thing about this is that the board is only so big, and so eventually ships are going to have to turn engage and get rammed, or fly off the board.  The intimidation factor is also a big thing, as they not only mis-deploy, but also fail to concentrate fire and squadron attacks on one Cymoon.  They realize too late that there is no way to bring them all down, and even two is pushing it.  As far as JJ as my commander, he did not do much for me in the first match because my opponent didn't want to engage with his ships until Round 6 (even though JJ helped to deter Raddus drop spots), but he was essential in the second match.  Because of JJ, I was not only able to set up both rams, but also force the ISD into a deadly crossfire.  I should note that it definitely helped that, after all Intensify Firepower, Dual Turbolaser Turret, and Concentrate Fire token dice modifications and rerolls, I only rolled four blank dice all game; I say this because if I had rolled worst, I would probably be saying that I wish I had Vader as my commander.  Lastly, as far as running Squadron-less, the only thing that has really worried me is heavy bomber wings and Sloane Aces.  While I'm still worried about Sloane Aces, the double black flak is plenty against non-ace bombers, especially if they try to get in your front arc in order to get overlapped (which puts some at your sides and then in double flak zones).

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Good job! You did much better than I did at my SC, which I might write about this week (there is something to be learned from mistakes, after all.) 

Questions I have: Where do you usually place your flagship when deploying? Center, or on one of the sides? 

Also, How far apart do you place your Cymoons from each other?

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17 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:

Good job! You did much better than I did at my SC, which I might write about this week (there is something to be learned from mistakes, after all.) 

Questions I have: Where do you usually place your flagship when deploying? Center, or on one of the sides? 

Also, How far apart do you place your Cymoons from each other?

Thanks.  I would love to hear how yours went.  Failure is a much better teacher than success, so any mistake that you recognize will only make you a better player.  I got Cymoon hubris right now, so I'm probably gonna flub the next SC.

My general deployment is to place my ships either a four on the range ruler apart from each other (if anticipating going straight, like for Contested Outpost or a straight up fight), but normally a four and five on the range ruler apart from one another.  If my opponent deploys across from me, they are all going straight.  If my opponent deploys some straight ahead and some to the left/right, I deploy two straight ahead and the innermost one at a 45 degree angle (I like deploying on the right side and turning left).  If my opponent deploys all on the opposite far side of the board from me, two are at 45 degree angles and the innermost is at a 90 degree angle.  I usually have my IF ship as the innermost ship, as the need for CF dials means it can't speed up or down quickly, but it's main job is to keep the opponent's ships from bypassing my wheel ahead of it (JJ really helps with setting the trap for this, like in my second game).  I usually have my flagship as the far ship in the wheel, but it might be more protected in the center, especially if you are facing a heavy squadron list (multiple flak arcs then).

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On 7/31/2018 at 3:50 PM, The Jabbawookie said:

Charging through the barrier/clouds at speed 3 seems like a possible strategy.  You’d be closer than is ideal, but 3 ISDs is a lot of firepower they can no longer spend evades against.

Minefields... yeah, minefields would just suck.

I've done this before with my old Demovastator concept.  Respectfully to that player,  he didn't seem to realize his wall could be penetrated so quickly,  but when it happened he was in immediate trouble and lost several ships.  That's pretty consistent with Barrier.  If there's a way to beat it,  it's by moving your own ships across the barrier just as the enemy hits, to maintain the protection.

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5 hours ago, Bertie Wooster said:

Good job! You did much better than I did at my SC, which I might write about this week (there is something to be learned from mistakes, after all.) 

Questions I have: Where do you usually place your flagship when deploying? Center, or on one of the sides? 

Also, How far apart do you place your Cymoons from each other?

In my case flagship goes in the center. If I have IF it goes on the flagship for a similar reason Admiral Calkins says.

And about distance, about distance 1 from each other. But sometimes it just depends on the objective. Playing Blockade Run the distance is bigger for example. But I usually try to keep them quote together. I don't like offer an isolated ISD so the closer the more chances of the center ISD shooting the same targets the other two shoot.

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Here’s my Store championship story.

I had an intense experience teaching summer camp for nine hours every day for six weeks, which ended August 3rd. Store championship was August 4th. Perfect way to celebrate camp being over! I hadn’t practiced a whole lot, but I had played a game against my friend Ben with this list already and learned some from that experience. (Battle report here https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/279230-vader-triple-cymoons-vs-ackbar-pics-so-it-did-happen/ ) I probably won’t remember every upgrade, so bear with me.

Ben and I drove out to this store championship together. We both had the same lists as last time, here’s a recap of mine:

Groucho, Chico and Harpo

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 395/400

Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit (112 points)
-  Darth Vader  ( 36  points)
-  Captain Needa  ( 2  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
= 157 total ship cost

Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit (112 points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
= 119 total ship cost

Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit (112 points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
= 119 total ship cost

My first opponent had not played in about a year and didn’t own any Wave 7 stuff. He brought an ISD-II with Screed, a Gladiator-I with APTs and Insidious, an Arquitens, and a Raider-I with Instigator, Agent Kallus, and Quad Laser Turrets. I think he had 4 squads, Ciena Ree and other anti-squad stuff.

He was at 400 points, so I chose to go second, and he chose my Solar Corona (My first time playing this objective). He deployed his Arquitens and Raider together on my left, his ISD in the middle, and Glad in a corner coming down my right. I deployed one Cymoon across from his Arquitens and Raider, Vader across from Screed (but with some asteroids in between us), another Cymoon across from his Glad.

This game was over pretty quickly.

1 1.    My opponent had a lot of anti-squad stuff that didn’t matter in this game.

2 2.    His list didn’t really utilize Screed much (besides APTs), HIE on the ISD-II would’ve been scarier.

3 3.    I got front arc shots on his small ships easily.

He did kill my Vader ISD, partially due to an obstacle placement / ship deployment mistake on my part. I tabled him. 400-157 score, so an 8-3 victory for me.

Takeaway: I wonder if putting all my ships on the right side of the board with the Glad would’ve been better deployment, killing the Glad early with long range fire then going Echelon down the left. I was pretty happy with the result though.

 

In my second game, my opponent, Chip, had an ISD-II with Motti and Strategic Adviser, an Arquitens, a Raider with HIE and DCaps, and an Interdoctor with Grav Shift Reroute. Admiral Titus in there somewhere. No squads. He was at 400 points, and I chose to go second again, and he picked my Blockade Run (My first time playing this objective).

This game is kind of embarrassing to write about. During obstacle placement, I put all the asteroids on one side of the board, deployed my Cymoons speed 2 about distance 5 apart from each other (trying to control three lanes), and placed my left Cymoon so that it wouldn’t hit the asteroids, but it would be pretty close to them, blocking his escape route. Then Chip grav shifted those asteroids so that they were in front of the Cymoon. I should have foreseen this.

Turn 1, I slowed down my middle ship and kept the other two going speed 2 for inverse triangle.

Despite my rightmost Cymoon being aimed at his Raider, it never got a front arc shot on the Raider due to him doing a sneaky first-last. Turn 3 was the first shot fired, his DCaps HIE Raider vs. my rightmost Cymoon.

Turns 4, 5 and 6 I didn’t do much damage, the most I did was take his Arquitens down to one hull (survived because of Motti), and I could’ve rammed him with my Vader ISD but didn’t because it would’ve killed my ISD too. He killed my rightmost ISD, the one that got double-tapped by the Raider. My Vader ISD got hit by his ISD and Arquitens but survived with one hull and no shields. My opponent got 119+20 points for killing my ISD (plus victory token), but not quite enough for an 8-3. 4-7 loss for me.

Takeaway: I should have done speed 3 instead, maybe triangle formation, and kept my ships closer together. After the game, Chip pointed out that keeping the ships closer together would’ve been more effective. If I wanted to take down the Interdoctor / ISD combo, or at least one of them, I would’ve had to have my ships closer together to get more use of Gunnery Team.

Game 3 coming soon...

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I was actually excited to find out that I’d be playing Ben in the final game of the day. Yes, we had played with these same fleets before, and yes, he picked my Contested Outpost again, but this game turned out way different than our other game.

He had Ackbar on a fully loaded HMC80 with Defiance, LS, ECM, QBT, RBD, Engine Techs, Strategic Adviser. Two GR-75s, one has Comms Net and the other is naked. 2 CR90As with TRC. Tycho, Shara, 2 VCX. 393 points.

Deploying obstacles, I basically formed a line down the middle, trying to make it difficult for him to predict where I’d put the station. He put an asteroid in my left corner and debris in my right corner, then I put the station on my right side, about distance one left of the debris. He deployed his flotilla + 4 squadrons. I had planned on making some crazy turns with my ISDs, so I spread them out distance 5 from each other, even though that put one of my ISDs right under an obstacle. My rightmost ISD was all the way to the right of my deployment zone, facing 11 o’clock. The other two faced straight 12 o’clock. I should probably explain that every time I play Ben it takes over three hours, (I don’t think it’s his fault necessarily, we are able to finish our matches when we’re not facing each other) and I wanted to be able to get to round 6, and I kinda rushed deployment. Doom Pickle was placed across from my Vader ISD, and CR90s set up to flank the right side of my rightmost ISD.

Turn 1 I did a double-click then a click at speed 2 for each ISD I think. In short, I banked a very hard right with every ship. Ben was super-confused at my “gun line.”

Turn 2 Ben used SAd, then I activated Vader and turn him hard left, and he went nose-to-nose with Ackbar’s Doom Pickle, landing on the station, and out of his side arcs. I tried to chase his CR90s with my right ISD and catch up to his Doom Pickle with my left. But by the time this turn was over I could see he got the best of me with his CR90s, one got in between my ships and the other got out of my front arc I think.

Rest of the game: Vader attacks Ackbar and Ackbar attacks back. CR90s attack Vader and right ISD, ISDs wipe out his GR-75s. His squadrons attack Vader’s front arc too. On round 4 Ackbar destroys Vader and moves onto the station. Squads chase my right ISD. Round 5 Ackbar gets an Ackbar slash on my left and right ISDs, I kill Ackbar but his squads kill my right ISD at the end of the round. Time’s up at the end of round 5. Ben 328-288, a 6-5 win. He was trying to go for a tabling but couldn’t kill my left ISD.

Takeaway: Obtacles down the middle seemed best. It narrows the playing field, sorta like Blockade Run. Station placement wasn’t great, I really had to strive to get my middle ship onto the station. And my middle ship was Vader (with Needa) too, which was not great because he took shots at close-medium range. I also burned the evade too early just for a Vader reroll, not worth it. It probably would’ve been more effective to deploy my middle ship in front of the station.

Putting the ships closer together would’ve been much better in this game. One of his CR90s was able to get in between two of my ships with that wide gap in between, and it was out of my front arc but able to take shots on two of my ships. More importantly, if my ships were closer together, I could’ve had two, possibly three front arcs on his Defiance in the same turn. I did get all three Cymoons to shoot the Defiance with their front arcs, but the attacks were more spread out than I would’ve liked.

This was my first SC, and now I understand why the really good players try to estimate how many points they need to get at least an 8-3 before they even start playing, and come up with a strategy for how to get there. In my second game I had no plan for how to take down my opponent’s ISD, and it showed.

It was a lot of fun, there were some really cool dudes there, it was a very friendly crowd. I came in 8th out of 15, and Ben got 2nd.

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Just finished 2nd place at Great Escape Games in Sacramento using Vader 3x Cymoon w/ GT and Stradviser.

Thoughts:

Wow, this list really excels as a second player beatstick between the durability and the oppressively long range.

Keeping Cymoons grouped together is both the most important and most difficult aspect of the list.  If you do,  the results are disgusting. If you don't, plan to lose an ISD.

Unlike Demolisher, one Cymoon can tank the initial hits of going second so long as the trio can focus all their fire afterwards into the kill zone and destroy any followup such as a carrier or bomber wing.

Objective selection is crucial to dictate the pace of engagement.   You absolutely must force the enemy fleet to engage or flee in the direction you choose. 

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Good day in Bristol today with my Vader Cymoons, but made too many errors, finished top 10. (Hopefully, these picture links work.)

Round 1, v Sato MC75, Pelta 2 x Hammerheads plus 5  X wings, E wings plus Dash Rendar, chose Player 1 and his Precision strike mission (probably my first error)

Deployment

G1T1_zpsq4tus7no.jpg

See the Hammerhead on its own my left, yep that was my mistake No2.

Turn 2

G1T2_zps4xamzdp9.jpg

I said to myself ignore it and still turned to face it, Doh.

Turn 3 killed his Hammerhead, but the sqns started their shield stripping.

Turn 4

G1T3_zpsvwmx9yho.jpg

Fighters finished the shields and started on the hull on my lead ISD for the MC75 to finish it off.

Turn 5

G1T4_zpsktpyz65k.jpg

ISD about to smash a Pelta.

End of turn 6

G1T5_zpst8nihco5.jpg

Run away........

Final score 163-194 with the split on tokens 1-5 (15-75), so the mission pick was very wrong.

Round 2 v Motti 2 ISD Kuat and II, Gozanti, 3 Defenders and Maarek Steele. Chose player 1 and his Firelanes mission, which he stacked together and I moved towards my deployment.

Deployment

G2T1_zpsfboyapzf.jpg

I wasn't going to split them here......

Turn 2 a mad rush to get at each other, blasting all the way, I lose the first ISD to the Motti flagship but leave him badly wounded.

Turn 3

G2T3_zpsgbll2cae.jpg

Motti flagship Kuat gets away, but the II is going to get it, fired my flagship, double arc into his rear, but left him on 1 Hull, **** Motti RBDs. His ISD II killed my second ISD. That 1 hull cost me 119 for the ISD and 45 objective points.

Turn 4

 G2T4_zpsney6jyu8.jpg

His ISDII is about to die.

Turn 5

G2T5_zpsu9pfsjed.jpg

Time for the AA, one Defender dies.

The game petered out in Turn 6 as we turned away.

Final score 375-238, with 180 objective points to his 0.

Round 3 v more **** Motti ISD's, Kuat BT Avenger and a Devastator Cymoon, with a Gozanti and 3 Defenders. He chose Player 2 and I picked his Contested Outpost mission.

Deployment

G3T1_zpsz6mzbdxw.jpg

The plan, swing the LH ISD to get some tokens on the way to the fight.

Turn 2

  G3T2_zpsekbrp203.jpg

Turn 3

G3T3_zpsthgf2d3m.jpg

2 on 1 on his RBD Avenger,

Turn 4

G3T5_zpsjqqhvrjs.jpg

About to trade the lead ISD for Avenger, killed 2 Defenders as well.

Turn 6 start

G3T6_zpshcmknvru.jpg

Trading Cymoon shots, 

Final score 276-119

So all in all the Cymoons did their job, it was my errors that caused the loss in round 1, will I run them again, **** yes.

I just hope these pictures worked......

 

Edited by Phil B
Rubbish typing.....

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