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Scum4Life

Will FFG comment on the generics issue?

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30 minutes ago, Icelom said:

Yep...

The issue is with 84 pilots is there enough pilots to run full generics of every ship.  Based on the full leak my math shows we need 91 pilots for full generics of every ship (that has generics...) Now I think the full leak is missing some stuff, and the content counts are also incorrect. 

Really I just need to actually see whats in them.

Hm...I just laid it out in excel and by putting generics on the backs of named pilots and then adding a few generic/generic bases, I can get all generics equal to dials for all ships except the Falcon, HWK, and Ghost (which each have 3 uniques and 1 generic) with exactly 43 bases, which is what's in the box.

The sky is falling?

Edited by skotothalamos

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38 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

Hm...I just laid it out in excel and by putting generics on the backs of named pilots, I can get all generics equal to dials for all ships except the Falcon, HWK, and Ghost (which each have 3 uniques and 1 generic) with exactly 43 bases, which is what's in the box.

The sky is falling?

1

My math does not work out like that unfortunately

Kit contents Generics shown  unique shown  required cards  required cardboard  
3 – A-wing 2 2 8 4
2 – ARC-170 0 4 4 2
2 – Auzituck Gunship 1 2 4 2
2 – B-wing 2 2 6 3
2 – E-wing 2 2 6 3
2 – Ghost 1 3 5 2.5
2 – HWK-290 1 3 5 2.5
2 – K-wing 1 2 4 2
2 – Millennium Falcon 1 3 5 2.5
2 – Phantom I 0 4 4 2
2 – Phantom II 0 4 4 2
2 – Sabine’s TIE Fighter 0 4 4 2
2 – U-wing 1 3 5 2.5
2 – X-wing 2 4 8 4
2 – Y-wing 2 4 8 4
2 – YT-2400 1 2 4 2
4 – Z-95 Headhunter 2 2 10 5
         
    Totals 92 47 Rounded  to 51

 

So this tells me either the numbers are off, or the kits don't have enough for full generics of every ship.

Am I wrong on my math somewhere? (now this is taken from the fully leaked reveal, to get my numbers.)

Edit: updated with a few ships i had wrong

Edited by Icelom

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7 minutes ago, Icelom said:

My math does not work out like that unfortunately

Kit contents Generics shown  unique shown  required cards  required cardboard  
3 – A-wing 2 2 8 4
2 – ARC-170 1 3 5 2.5
2 – Auzituck Gunship 1 2 4 2
2 – B-wing 2 2 6 3
2 – E-wing 2 2 6 3
2 – Ghost 1 3 5 2.5
2 – HWK-290 1 3 5 2.5
2 – K-wing 1 2 4 2
2 – Millennium Falcon 1 3 5 2.5
2 – Phantom I 0 4 4 2
2 – Phantom II 0 4 4 2
2 – Sabine’s TIE Fighter 0 4 4 2
2 – U-wing 1 3 5 2.5
2 – X-wing 2 3 7 5
2 – Y-wing 2 2 6 3
2 – YT-2400 1 2 4 2
4 – Z-95 Headhunter 2 2 10 5
         
    Totals 92 47.5 Rounded  to 52

 

So this tells me either the numbers are off, or the kits don't have enough for full generics of every ship.

Am I wrong on my math somewhere? (now this is taken from the fully leaked reveal, to get my numbers.)

One too high on the x-wing, one too low on the y-wing, the arc doesn't have a generic, which makes your pilot card number off by one.  Your rounding is off a little, in that you'd round to 50, but because of the arc error, actually 49.

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3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

is this rebel kit only or all kits?

 

If all kits, it'd be a generic generic issue.

For the TIE/ln it might be okay because you buy the Core Set, while for the Z it’s only 6 instead of 8 i suppose.

Anyway, this could instill some rage potential amongst the communit if was true.

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13 minutes ago, Clutterbuck said:

One too high on the x-wing, one too low on the y-wing, the arc doesn't have a generic, which makes your pilot card number off by one.  Your rounding is off a little, in that you'd round to 50, but because of the arc error, actually 49.

Went back and I am actually 1 to low on x-wings, and 2 to low on y-wing uniques.
X-wings: Wedge, Graven, Biggs, Red Squad, Blue Squad, Thane Kyrell
Y-wings: Evaan, Nora, Dutch, Horton, Gold squad, Gray squad
you are correct on the Arc its right its 4 uniques

Here are my updated numbers.

Kit contents Generics shown 

unique shown 

required cards  required cardboard  
3 – A-wing 2 2 8 4
2 – ARC-170 0 4 4 2
2 – Auzituck Gunship 1 2 4 2
2 – B-wing 2 2 6 3
2 – E-wing 2 2 6 3
2 – Ghost 1 3 5 2.5
2 – HWK-290 1 3 5 2.5
2 – K-wing 1 2 4 2
2 – Millennium Falcon 1 3 5 2.5
2 – Phantom I 0 4 4 2
2 – Phantom II 0 4 4 2
2 – Sabine’s TIE Fighter 0 4 4 2
2 – U-wing 1 3 5 2.5
2 – X-wing 2 4 8 4
2 – Y-wing 2 4 8 4
2 – YT-2400 1 2 4 2
4 – Z-95 Headhunter 2 2 10 5
         
    Totals 94 47 rounded to 51




 

Edited by Icelom

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8 minutes ago, Icelom said:

My math does not work out like that unfortunately

Kit contents Generics shown  unique shown  required cards  required cardboard  
3 – A-wing 2 2 8 4
2 – ARC-170 1 3 5 2.5
2 – Auzituck Gunship 1 2 4 2
2 – B-wing 2 2 6 3
2 – E-wing 2 2 6 3
2 – Ghost 1 3 5 2.5
2 – HWK-290 1 3 5 2.5
2 – K-wing 1 2 4 2
2 – Millennium Falcon 1 3 5 2.5
2 – Phantom I 0 4 4 2
2 – Phantom II 0 4 4 2
2 – Sabine’s TIE Fighter 0 4 4 2
2 – U-wing 1 3 5 2.5
2 – X-wing 2 3 7 5
2 – Y-wing 2 2 6 3
2 – YT-2400 1 2 4 2
4 – Z-95 Headhunter 2 2 10 5
         
    Totals 92 47.5 Rounded  to 52

 

So this tells me either the numbers are off, or the kits don't have enough for full generics of every ship.

Am I wrong on my math somewhere? (now this is taken from the fully leaked reveal, to get my numbers.)

I've got it as 4 ARC uniques and 0 generics, which saves a card and half a base.

I can get those X-Wings done in 4 bases, but you have them listed as 5: Wedge/RSV, Biggs/RSV, Garven/BSE, RSV/BSE. That's even "wasting" half a base to let Garven fly with a BSE. 

I wonder, with very little info the bases, if they're consolidating some of the Rebels characters in the sheaths and TIEs? No point in having 3 Ezra bases when I can just have one with the front arc for TIE or Attack Shuttle, and a separate one with front/back arc for the Sheath. That's one double-sided base, and saves us half a base in the long run. It's close enough that I can see them sorting it out.

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2 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

I've got it as 4 ARC uniques and 0 generics, which saves a card and half a base.

I can get those X-Wings done in 4 bases, but you have them listed as 5: Wedge/RSV, Biggs/RSV, Garven/BSE, RSV/BSE. That's even "wasting" half a base to let Garven fly with a BSE. 

I wonder, with very little info the bases, if they're consolidating some of the Rebels characters in the sheaths and TIEs? No point in having 3 Ezra bases when I can just have one with the front arc for TIE or Attack Shuttle, and a separate one with front/back arc for the Sheath. That's one double-sided base, and saves us half a base in the long run. It's close enough that I can see them sorting it out.

I updated my numbers still short on total pilots and cardboard if the info leaked is to be trusted.

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8 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

There's also the possibility that those little baggies of Wave I content are not included in the counts for the conversion kits.

Yes if it does it brings me down to 90 pilot cards needed and there kit claims 84

I am really leaning to it being the numbers were off because they have changed since that page was setup or were never right to begin with.

I think it should be fine, but if the data we have is accurate (i dont think it is) then we won't have full generics.

Edited by Icelom

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8 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

So..  the issue is some people are upset because the upgrade kit, that covers the rational and budget conscious idea that a player who only purchased one of any single sku can fly all his ships, are upset that they can't fly the dozen z-95’s they own?   

I get it, some people have WAY more disposable income than me, that’s fine.  I get that people have lots of ships.. but in a universe where EVERY. SINGLE. PERSON. Onscreen has an elaborate backstory that maybe generics aren't really a thing.   Maybe the way the rebel faction plays puts an emphasis on flying named pilots?   

No one forced you to buy multiple copies of the same product, and maybe I'm the weird one that never bought duplicate skus because I never saw the point and I had the foresight to know that many if the ships would come in another pack.. 

What a disingenuous dig at a large portion of the X-Wing community. 

Your comment seems to suggest "we" have lots of money, but you do not know our financial situations, perhaps my ships were presents or I only have 8 Z-95s and only a few other ships, and I love my Z-95s.

If we have loads of disposable income do you think we would care about the cost?

If you own one copy of each SKU you'll be buying three conversion kits plus the core set. That's more than I should need as I am a single faction guy (see my handle).

Furthermore the conversion kit is not in any way market for someone who owns only one of each model, otherwise why does it come with multiple dials. It is clearly marketed as converting the number of ships as denoted by the number of dials.

 

Finally what's the problem with generics, They are just pilots with no ability and given many ships now have built in abilities and pseudo-push the limits they (generic pilots) should be even better than before and far better costed.

FFG please don't screw us over to save 10 cardboard inserts.

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Having run the numbers on the tables people have been uploading. I think to have every configuration of pilots usable with the number of dials availabke we would need. 92 pilot cards and 49 inserts.

So looking to be 6 inserts short and 8 pilot cards short.

Is it really much cheaper to not include 14 bits of cardboard?

 

The alternative would have been to have generic inserts for all ships of the same size with just the firing arcs on them, that would cut right down on the cardboard and we could just use the app and number indicators to identify the ships.

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As a VERY casual player, I find all this hand wringing about generics humorous. Other than a very few list types; ( A couple swarm lists, baby blues, and any Bunke list?) nobody flew generics anyway. Everyone is excited to try 5 x-wings, me too. But a couple proxy games I’ve seen it is a pretty good list, but not great. 5 Spacers never made a huge splash either. I think everyone needs to take a breath.

Of course, I could just be overlooking something obvious. I tend to do that.?

Edited by Eyegor

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39 minutes ago, Eyegor said:

As a VERY casual player, I find all this hand wringing about generics humorous. Other than a very few list types; ( A couple swarm lists, baby blues, and any Bunke list?) nobody flew generics anyway. Everyone is excited to try 5 x-wings, me too. But a couple proxy games I’ve seen it is a pretty good list, but not great. 5 Spacers never made a huge splash either. I think everyone needs to take a breath.

Of course, I could just be overlooking something obvious. I tend to do that.?

The point of an edition change is to fix problems. One of the problems with 1e is that all the generic pilots are bad.

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1 hour ago, Eyegor said:

As a VERY casual player, I find all this hand wringing about generics humorous. Other than a very few list types; ( A couple swarm lists, baby blues, and any Bunke list?) nobody flew generics anyway. Everyone is excited to try 5 x-wings, me too. But a couple proxy games I’ve seen it is a pretty good list, but not great. 5 Spacers never made a huge splash either. I think everyone needs to take a breath.

Of course, I could just be overlooking something obvious. I tend to do that.?

Nobody flew X-wings either. Why include them in 2.0 at all?

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4 hours ago, Eyegor said:

As a VERY casual player, I find all this hand wringing about generics humorous. Other than a very few list types; ( A couple swarm lists, baby blues, and any Bunke list?) nobody flew generics anyway. Everyone is excited to try 5 x-wings, me too. But a couple proxy games I’ve seen it is a pretty good list, but not great. 5 Spacers never made a huge splash either. I think everyone needs to take a breath.

Of course, I could just be overlooking something obvious. I tend to do that.?

A significant number of players WANT to run generics. Dash, Miranda, Ghost, Nym, Poe, & Kylo are gamebreakingly unbalanced against generic pilots. I want to fly generics because that is how you can get higher numbers of ships on the table. The one thing that will get me to leave X-wing is if high level X-wing games remain exclusively 2-3 ships like it currently is. 2e is potentially the change needed to make this happen.

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21 hours ago, Scum4Life said:

What does everyone think will happen. Are the stated numbers of cards and inserts incorrect? Or might we be getting stiffed?

It's really pretty simple:

Anyone going out of their way to purchase a conversion kit already cares about the game and will most likely make use of their extra cardboard in some way. 

Most of us will have tons of unused cardboard from one or multiple faction conversions, and you should be able to pick up a Single Z95 conversion aftermarket super easy. 

The devs clearly understand this about the community, and short of offering a custom-tailored conversion option for everyone in the game, I believe this current setup is the most efficient option for the fan base.

Edited by Bucknife
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1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

It's really pretty simple:

Anyone going out of their way to purchase a conversion kit already cares about the game and will most likely make use of their extra cardboard in some way. 

Most of us will have tons of unused cardboard from one or multiple faction conversions, and you should be able to pick up a Single Z95 conversion aftermarket super easy. 

The devs clearly understand this about the community, and short of offering a custom-tailored conversion option for everyone in the game, I believe this current setup is the most efficient option for the fan base.

As long as their upfront about it, we all know what we are buying. But as it stands I feel like we might be being mislead, or at least allowed to misinterpret.

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The picture from the rebel leaks shows that the cardboard for the wave 1 content is not part of the totals for the conversion kits. How does the math line up if you don't have to account for the X-Wing and Y-Wing cardboard?

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On 6/1/2018 at 4:57 PM, Scum4Life said:

So yeah, I'm really not pleased about the potential to not have enough cardboard inserts to field the specified number of ship conversions as each type of generic. That seems ludicrous as it does not fully convert the ships it says it does.

 

It means to field a full set of Z95's I'd need to buy three kits! And waste loads of cardboard and money.

 

What does everyone think will happen. Are the stated numbers of cards and inserts incorrect? Or might we be getting stiffed?

ive been saying this since the announcement and made a thread about it. fair warning, a bunch of trolls are going to come after you if you question it at all. but it is a valid question.

for me to convert the 3 primary factions of my collection (no FO, resistance, or epics) it will cost me $350 to convert $700 worth of ships.

%50 conversion cost.

thats 1 core plus 2 conversion kits of each faction.  and even then that doesnt recoup or convert my epic ships.

in short im not doing that. ill just buy a handmade leather jacket or a new Console and games...

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I'm sure somebody's mentioned it, but I think it's highly likely (bordering on 100%) that some current generics will be gone.

For example, for TIE interceptors there's the Alpha, the Avenger, the Saber, and the Royal Guard.  The Alpha/Avenger and Saber/RG could easily be combined, losing nothing in the process.  (And that's with a PS scale of 1-9.  With an Initiative scale of 1-6, it's even more true.

To use another example from early in the thread, I doubt there will be both Bandits and Talas.  [Got this one wrong, as Bandits and Talas have been spoiled.]  I dunno which they'll pick (I'd guess Bandits, blaster to my head), but I just can't see a need for both.  They're compressing the PS/Initiative range for a reason, and keeping every generic would be counter-productive.

Edited by Jeff Wilder

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13 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I'm sure somebody's mentioned it, but I think it's highly likely (bordering on 100%) that some current generics will be gone.

For example, for TIE interceptors there's the Alpha, the Avenger, the Saber, and the Royal Guard.  The Alpha/Avenger and Saber/RG could easily be combined, losing nothing in the process.  (And that's with a PS scale of 1-9.  With an Initiative scale of 1-6, it's even more true.

To use another example from early in the thread, I doubt there will be both Bandits and Talas.  I dunno which they'll pick (I'd guess Bandits, blaster to my head), but I just can't see a need for both.  They're compressing the PS/Initiative range for a reason, and keeping every generic would be counter-productive.

We've slready seen bandits and talas.

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I believe I remember Alex Davy saying on a video (can't remember which one) that they will eventually release smaller conversion kits so people don't have to buy multiple day 1 conversion kits.

I specifically remember him saying they don't want people to have to buy more ships.

To confirm if he actually said this I wanted to go back and watch the Twitch world's stream when they were spoiling some things. Can anybody help me find that video? I can't find it anywhere. 

 

Thanks

 

Edit: I think I found it on twitch.

Edited by Skitchx

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