Venemous Blade Question

[ktom 598]

Boreas said:

 I was under the impression that when in doubt take the literal meaning, and by that the 4 str would be a printed str.  I could see your examples working if the text says gains 4 str, but it defines a set integer.

Okay, let's talk about that.

Let's say that there is a n event that says "after you lose a challenge, pay 1 gold to take the bottom card of your discard pile and put it into play an Army character with 4 STR, a mil , an int, a pow icon, and deadly." What is the "printed STR" of that character? The effect that created it and defined the parameters is not only not printed on the card that is acting like a character, the card that did define the parameters isn't even in play anymore. But its 4STR was printed somewhere, so doesn't it still count as the printed STR by your earlier line of reasoning?

Or what about Dagmer Cleftjaw, who says Warship locations you control count as 2STR during Dominance? Does that mean Warship locations have a printed STR during Dominance? By the logic you present, the 2 STR they have during the Dominance phase is a printed STR, even though it is printed on Dagmer instead of the Warships.

Or let's look at Summer Reserves as is again. What happens when I put Milk of the Poppy on it? Does it stop being a character? Does it stop being an Army? Does it have no STR, icons or keywords? The answer to all of those questions is "no." The effect that turned the event into a character has already resolved. It does not depend on the continued activation or presence of the event text (any more than the presence of the hypothetical event in the first example is needed) to maintain the definitions of its "character parameters." It's the lasting effect that matters, not the printed text - once it has resolved. So you see, what is printed on the card isn't actually what has any bearing on the character's parameters beyond the initial resolution.

Hopefully, these examples demonstrate that just because printed card text in an effect defines a STR for a card (even when it is not gained) does not create a "printed STR" for that card.

[kuba4 0]

Ok, next Vemonous question;)

Whats the printed cost of Venomous Blade (and other Shadow cards?)

I wanted to take Blade from opoonent charatcer with Krasnyz for 0...

 

[eloooooooi 0]

You have to take into account that shadows cost 2+X, where X is the printed number next to the letter s that's printed in the cost. Venomous Blade's printed cost would be 2+0 = 2.

By the way, remember that you can "steal" your opponent's Venomous Blade but you will not be able to use it. If you trigger its Response and send it back to shadows, your opponent will get it back.

[kuba4 0]

But You sure that printed cost is 0? Any number i see is 0 not 2+0... 2 is regular cost to play card into shadows. So eachshadow card have printed cost 2+sX?

I didnt want use Blade, but pretend to opponent do;)

[ktom 598]

Kuba said:

But You sure that printed cost is 0? Any number i see is 0 not 2+0... 2 is regular cost to play card into shadows. So eachshadow card have printed cost 2+sX?

eloooooooi is sure. I know he's sure because the Shadows rules document specifically says:

"If the value of a Shadows card’s “printed cost” must be determined (because of another card effect), the value is determined by adding the cost of playing the card into Shadows (two gold) to the cost of bringing the card out of Shadows (as shown on the card)."

[KyK 0]

About printed cost ... can't you use Krasnyz in an event wich turns into an attachment? The attachment will not have printed cost ...

 

Thanks

[ktom 598]

KyK said:

About printed cost ... can't you use Krasnyz in an event wich turns into an attachment? The attachment will not have printed cost ...

This is pretty much the same question as asking if Venomous Blade can kill any event which becomes a character - because there is no printed cost.

Yes, Krasnyz can be used on an event which becomes an attachment - and the printed cost of that attachment will be considered 0. The details and relevant FAQ entry are earlier in the thread.

[Kordovan 0]

 Another question on this "broken" card:

I play Martell, so does my opponent. After losing a challenge, he wants to bring his VB back into Shadows and I play "He calls it thinking" in order to cancel the response. Where goes VB, does it stay on the board (still attached) or goes into the discard pile.

More to the point does HCIT cancel the fact that it should go into Shadows and can not (so is discarded) or the fact that he tries to do it and nothing changes at all ?!

[ktom 598]

Kordovan said:

I play Martell, so does my opponent. After losing a challenge, he wants to bring his VB back into Shadows and I play "He calls it thinking" in order to cancel the response. Where goes VB, does it stay on the board (still attached) or goes into the discard pile.

If you cancel the Response, the attachment essentially goes nowhere. It stays in play on its current character. Taking the attachment off the character is part of the effect of the Response. Since that effect never happens, the attachment never comes off.

[FATMOUSE 0]

If you cancel VB's Response with HCIT, VB will simply stay attached to the character it's currently attached.  It is not discarded.

EDIT: Didn't see ktom response, but yeah VB is rather potent and versatile. 

[Kordovan 0]

 terrific.

Another situation now: (happened today)

Martell vs Martell still. My opponent plays He calls it thinking to cancel my response. We see then that he has no Martell character on the table. Does he have to attach it to one of my Martell char (as i assumed it) or can he decide to discard it instead ?!

[ktom 598]

Kordovan said:

Martell vs Martell still. My opponent plays He calls it thinking to cancel my response. We see then that he has no Martell character on the table. Does he have to attach it to one of my Martell char (as i assumed it) or can he decide to discard it instead ?!

If there is a Martell character on the board, you have to attach the event to it, even if you do not control the character. He could not decide to discard the event instead of resolving its attaching effect.

[Kordovan 0]

 terrific #2

I got fooled like a newby. It won't happen again, thank you guys!