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Gillum the Stoor

Resolution 3 of The Gathering

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Resolution 3 of "The Gathering" says "Each investigator who has not resigned is killed" and "If the lead investigator was killed, choose an investigator to earn the Lita Chantler card."

Does this mean that Lita can be carried over into the next scenario only by an investigator who did resign?

If Lita is earned by a killed investigator, that investigator doesn't continue to the next scenario, and the game doesn't seem to allow her to be transferred to another investigator.

 

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17 minutes ago, CSerpent said:

One who resigned, or one of the new investigators who are chosen to take up the trail

The new Investigators don't exist when you're dealing with the resolutions.  If all of your Investigators die, Lita is lost.  If at least one lives via resigning, Lita gets to stick around.

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"If an investigator is killed or driven insane, that player must choose a new investigator to use in the next scenario."

At what point in time is the new investigator chosen and available for use?

At the time of death or insanity?  If an investigator is killed in the middle of scenario, certainly his or her replacement cannot be played during that same scenario.

After the scenario ends and before the next one begins?  If that were the case, the new investigator wouldn't be available to earn story assets from the resolution of the earlier scenario.

From Cserpent's answer, it sounds like the answer is that the new investigator can be chosen after the first scenario's resolution is reached (in this case, the original investigator is killed by the resolution) and before it fully resolves (so that the new investigator is available to earn story assets assigned by the resolution).

Edited by Gillum the Stoor
Clarification as another post came in while I was writing this one.

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I don't have time to go digging, but I seem to recall that some discussion about when a new investigator is chosen occurred while discussing The Unspeakable Oath in the Carcossa Cycle. There might be some clues in those threads.

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5 minutes ago, KrisWall said:

The new Investigators don't exist when you're dealing with the resolutions.  If all of your Investigators die, Lita is lost.  If at least one lives via resigning, Lita gets to stick around.

You are told to choose new investigators before you are told to assign Lita.  Given that there are other scenarios with similar resolutions, where a new investigator MUST take a story asset, I think the new investigators do exist during the resolution.

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5 minutes ago, CSerpent said:

You are told to choose new investigators before you are told to assign Lita.

Is the thinking that Campaign Play rules are telling you to choose a new investigator at the time of killing (before assigning Lita)?

But clearly you can't play that new investigator until the next scenario ("to use in the next scenario") - in another case, you might get killed in the middle of a scenario.

I'm trying to figure out how the new investigator is sufficiently in play to receive Lita but not for other purposes.  Maybe the rules don't cover this as carefully as they could.

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21 minutes ago, Gillum the Stoor said:

Is the thinking that Campaign Play rules are telling you to choose a new investigator at the time of killing (before assigning Lita)?

But clearly you can't play that new investigator until the next scenario ("to use in the next scenario") - in another case, you might get killed in the middle of a scenario.

I'm trying to figure out how the new investigator is sufficiently in play to receive Lita but not for other purposes.  Maybe the rules don't cover this as carefully as they could.

Nobody adds Lita to their deck during the scenario.  They might take control of her, but she is not added to their deck.  It's not until the resolution that what deck she goes into, if any, is determined.

Edited by CSerpent

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Yes, I understand that Lita is not earned into someone's deck until a resolution is reached.

My thinking was trying to understand the time point at which a player replaces a new investigator, and when that new investigator is available to participate in the game.

Maybe the answer is more of a "meta-rule."

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I'm reading R3 closely again.  Here's what I've got:

If the lead investigator resigned, no one gets Lita.

If the lead investigator was killed, someone who resigned or a replacement investigator MAY take Lita.

 

And again, "earns Lita" does not mean gaining control of her during play.  This only happens during some of the resolutions.  It's impossible for a killed investigator to earn her -- either the lead earns her, or the lead was killed and someone who wasn't killed earns her.

The rules for killed/insane are really another question entirely.  I think it's clear how it works for Lita.  Other situations, I guess it might not be as clear.

Edited by CSerpent

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I really really do understand the difference between earning and getting control during play.  ?

Looking at resolution 3 specifically, I do see it saying to choose new investigators before earning Lita.  I'm sorry that I missed that before.

I probably assumed that that was there because there was the intro scenario and that it was more about telling people "this is what happens when you're killed" as specifying the time point.  My bad.

The resolution also tells you to advance to the next scenario (before Lita is earned!).  Advancing to the next scenario is pretty obvious - it isn't mentioned in the other resolutions.  The fact that it was included here is probably part of why I thought that this was really generic text about what to do when someone is killed ("the game continues"), rather that specifying an investigator-replacement rule specific to this resolution.

Edited by Gillum the Stoor

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I found a relevant ruling here:  https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/269344-xp-when-eliminated-spoilers-uoath/?tab=comments#comment-3204994

"It’s worth noting that the only other resolution written in this way is Resolution 3 of The Gathering, which instructs the players to choose new investigators, then tells the players to choose an investigator to earn Lita Chantler. This instruction should likewise be applied to the new investigators, not the recently killed investigators. Unlike Resolution 1 in The Unspeakable Oath, this resolution grants no experience to the new investigators, which is why this question has never come up before!

"So, to sum up:

"(1) Generally speaking, resolution effects (such as rewards, experience, and weaknesses) are granted only to investigators present in the scenario, even investigators who were killed or driven insane during that scenario.

"(2) If the resolution specifically instructs the players to choose new investigators, any resolution effects that follow apply to the new investigators.

"(3) Otherwise, new investigators would be chosen during the interim between the previous scenario’s resolution and the introduction to the next scenario."

So we were all right.  ?

Edited by Gillum the Stoor

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