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Birmingham Beckons! Europeans 2018

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11 hours ago, ThatJakeGuy said:

What is this madness, I need to see a full list ASAP.

The full list was : Luke jedi, Ahsoka, Jarrod, Mak, Gideon, C3PO, R2D2 and a smuggler.

Edited by hyperion77

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5 hours ago, RoyalRich said:

 

It was beautifully painted as well, I can't remember exactly sorry, I didn't play against him but he was next to me in my top 16 match. Ahsoka and Jarrod for sure and I think Han, rcp+ and smugglers? 

That, and it was part of tripping up my path through the Swiss as I lost to it when R2-D2 (!) ganged up on my Drokkatta all the way up in the middle of the Nal Hutta map (!) aided by J4X (!) managing to get exactly 1 damage and a stun through the wookies defences, effectively stopping cold my last great hail marry.

The list went something like this:

Jedi Luke
Ahsoka
Jerrod
Gideon
R2-D2
C-3PO
Mak
Smuggler
Rebel High Command

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3 hours ago, jacenat said:

Here are pictures of the top 16 lists (only deployment cards): http://boardwars.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/EC_top16_lists.zip

Thanks @jacenat !  So the breakdown looks something like:

Han+Rangers & smuggler friends 7

Han+Rangers w/ Ahsoka 1

Vader 2

9 act merc 3

double equay (<9 act) 1

Luke+rangers 1

Luke+spies 1

 

IG is strangely absent the top 16...

Edited by Averagejo3gam3r

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3 hours ago, Averagejo3gam3r said:

Thanks @jacenat !  So the breakdown looks something like:

Han+Rangers & smuggler friends 7

Han+Rangers w/ Ahsoka 1

Vader 2

9 act merc 3

double equay (<9 act) 1

Luke+rangers 1

Luke+spies 1

 

IG is strangely absent the top 16...

That pretty much matches my experience, in 8 games I played 6 han rangers, one Ig88 and luke, and 1 vader mirror match. 

I was a bit fed up of han rangers by the end! (felt like an auto loss on mos eisley stashes for two of my games) 

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At Worlds we had ca. 1/3 Han, 1/3 Vader and 1/3 IG.

At the European Championships it was like ca. 6/9 Rebels, 2/9 Mercs and 1/9 Vader.

Is that a shift in the Meta? (From a diverse, healthy Meta towards a strict Rebels Meta?) Or was that just bad luck?

I would have expected a lot more IGs after DT's world championships list. Or is because of DT, that everyone said: "No, I don't want to copy his list, but rather develop my own ideas?"

Notably, about everyone did use Gideon, 3PO, Hera and R2 or Chopper, even with Mercs, just like DT did. Did the Rebel Care Package evolve from Gideon and 3PO to Gideon, 3PO, Hera and R2 or Chopper?

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I have no clue of why rebels are so popular in EU. Without numbers at hand I can just guess the reason. I believe investment is the reason. Rebel lists are the cheaper lists to set up. If this is the real reason, it should ring as an alarm bell for FFG because you can't use the same marketing strategy on 2 very different markets and assume it will work well.

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IIRC this behaviour has been observed in other games as well. Both in D&D minis when it was hot and from what I remember other players saying about Warhammer, euro players have a tendency to go for finesse squads rather then straight forward ones. The "scientific analysis" back in the day was that since finesse bands require skill in a different way then the more straightforward bands, players feel that they are more in Control of theit own situation when playing such bands. If you loose, you loose because you messed up or was outplayed rather then because clunky luck.

Maybe there is some fraction of truth in it, idk.  

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In all the competitive games I play or have played, there is definitely a different meta between Europe and US. Even in this day and age, when everything is instantly available online.

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3 hours ago, RoyalRich said:

Has anyone got a copy of the picture Gils took of the top 16 with our medals on? I've not seen it surface yet

Had to leave before that :( Sry mate.

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1. I am sure that it's not the matter of cash.

 

First thing, is that cost of Han-rangers list isn't much lower then DTs 8 acts (especially if you consider, that most han rangers where 3 smugglers instead of RHC, which additionaly puts the prices up). In fact I would say, that it is even more expensive (but I am too lazy to check it). The difference between those lists is that han rangers require 3 smugglers, rangers, han solo and hote while 8 acts require ig-88, jawa and greedo.

 

Second thing is, that the cost of participation in euros (for people from outside of Birmingham) is so high, that it makes any list-cost differences irrelevant. If you consider plane, accomodation, food etc. it will take at least a few hundred dollars (ie. for me it is about 700$). If someone is willing to pay this amount of money for a weekend of playing boardgame I am totally sure, that he won't have any problem with spending additional 20-50 dollars to take the optimal list. 

 

2. AFAIK during swiss the lists were diverse  (ie. a friend of mine who didn't make the cut said, that he met 5 ig-88 and Vader/Riots. The other one met 3 han rangers  2 vaders and 1 ahsoka list) It would appear, that Han rangers for some reason made it to the top (correct me if I am wrong, but I heard somewhere, that during swiss Mos Eisley scenario B has been played twice, which could be some explanation for Han-rangers above average presence in top 16). There is also more  obvious answer, that simply the best players in europe like this list (which isn't strange, because it's top tier - it was present in both finals, which in case of Worlds was super close) and the rest followed their lead (just like US players followed DTs lead with 8 act ig-88).

 

3. IMO han-rangers list has the lowest skill requirements from the "meta" lists (han, ig, vader) for a solid performance, because it has lots of range, damage and very versatile Han. Don't get me wrong, I am not saiying, that it's easy to play at the top level (which obviously require perfect positioning), but it's quite forgiving if you play conservativly.

 

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Yea agreed on it not being about the money, I don't think I've met anyone for whom that's a consideration. 

We played mos eisley b once during Swiss and then again at top 16, with uscru courier being the only one played twice during Swiss. 

I would be interested to see how many han rangers builds lost those two games though against anything other than a mirror as I'm starting to think of it as a real problem atm with all but an auto win for the smugglers.

(I may just be sour as two of my losses were on that and I knew I'd lost as soon as the mission was declared for top 16) 

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On 6/3/2018 at 10:15 PM, ThatJakeGuy said:

What is this madness, I need to see a full list ASAP.

My list was :

Ender_European2018.thumb.JPG.9dd672cd04a81cc4ad0f75567c8df681.JPG

 

I didn't want to play a list with Han and Rangers. I looked for alternative list while keeping Han. But my friend Zil (Gil Alves De Oliveira) incited me to eliminate Han and his proposition to play Luke and Ahsoka enjoy me.
Some training games were needed to play at best this list (I was only 40 % of victories before European championship ).
Most difficult were to choose the command cards. In particular the command cards at 0, impossible to put Element of surprise or Urgency...
In any case, the WE was excellent : games and opponents (Andor, Oliver, Arvydas, Jeppe, Stuart, Daniel, Guilio and Alberto) were very great.

 

 

Edited by EnderWilfrid

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6 hours ago, Golan Trevize said:

I have no clue of why rebels are so popular in EU. Without numbers at hand I can just guess the reason. I believe investment is the reason. Rebel lists are the cheaper lists to set up. If this is the real reason, it should ring as an alarm bell for FFG because you can't use the same marketing strategy on 2 very different markets and assume it will work well.

We, people from the EU, are so poor. Please send us your monies, people from the US, so we can play regular lists and have the same meta.

Edited by Eddie

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2 hours ago, Eddie said:

We, people from the EU, are so poor. Please send us your monies, people from the US, so we can play regular lists and have the same meta.

I'm European.

6 hours ago, Szycha said:

1. I am sure that it's not the matter of cash.

I was just guessing because I can't see any valid reason for that. What you say is true. Investment wasn't a problem for participants. Perhaps availability of some boxes and packs can influence people choice for some extent. In example few weeks ago there was no Jabba's Realm box on the market. 

5 hours ago, Szycha said:

during swiss Mos Eisley scenario B has been played twice, which could be some explanation for Han-rangers above average presence in top 16).

Considering the success of Rangers I expected Nal Hutta to be the most played scenario!

5 hours ago, Szycha said:

3. IMO han-rangers list has the lowest skill requirements from the "meta" lists (han, ig, vader) for a solid performance, because it has lots of range, damage and very versatile Han. Don't get me wrong, I am not saiying, that it's easy to play at the top level (which obviously require perfect positioning), but it's quite forgiving if you play conservativly.

I'm not a good player and I tend to lose my rangers at some stage. I find this list a lot more difficult than a full-smuggler list or a scum list with pirates.

 

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Han is GREAT when positioned correctly. But he can go down fast (seen him die in one eWeequay activation). And he is not worth his points, if he doesn't attack at least twice per round.

Therefore, I think he is less forgiving than the other titans. IG's high speed and Vader's durability are far more forgiving than Han's. IMO, he is an expert tool.

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41 minutes ago, DerBaer said:

Han is GREAT when positioned correctly. But he can go down fast (seen him die in one eWeequay activation). And he is not worth his points, if he doesn't attack at least twice per round.

Therefore, I think he is less forgiving than the other titans. IG's high speed and Vader's durability are far more forgiving than Han's. IMO, he is an expert tool. 

I have a totally different feeling. Taking into consideration, that han can be used to his fullest potential in extreme ranges (9 range focus  shot averages 6 dmg before reroll) it is totally possible to punish your opponent without too much commitment. On top of that if you consider on the lam, sometimes  you can just go all in with him and run away when things go south (kinda like greedo, but MUCH more painfull :D). On the other hand vader and IG need to get close. As a result they go down really fast if you overcommit or miscalculate your odds.

 

Again, I am not saying that he is better then IG, but definetely easier to SAFE (and still quite efficent) use.

 

On top of that it's pointless to argue about that because we are just teoretising.

 

Actually i think that "because we like it more" point closes the case. Americans like baseball, Europeans like football. Americans like Ig-88, Europeans like Han ;)

 

Edited by Szycha

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25 minutes ago, Szycha said:

I have a totally different feeling. Taking into consideration, that han can be used to his fullest potential in extreme ranges (9 range focus  shot averages 6 dmg before reroll) it is totally possible to punish your opponent without too much commitment. On top of that if you consider on the lam, sometimes  you can just go all in with him and run away when things go south (kinda like greedo, but MUCH more painfull :D). On the other hand vader and IG need to get close. As a result they go down really fast if you overcommit or miscalculate your odds.

 

Again, I am not saying that he is better then IG, but definetely easier to SAFE (and still quite efficent) use.

 

On top of that it's pointless to argue about that because we are just teoretising.

 

Actually i think that "because we like it more" point closes the case. Americans like baseball, Europeans like football. Americans like Ig-88, Europeans like Han ;)

 

Judging by how empty the theater was on opening night of Solo, I think it's safe to confirm that Americans don't like Han  lol

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I had a really great time.

Not having played for about a year before the event, I wasn't expecting to win loads of games, but still managed to go 3-3 after shamelessly netlisting DT scum list... I just missed out of top 32 (coming at 33 in Swiss).

All games were really good (maybe the last one was disappointing as I misjuged line of sight on the map and got killed before the game even properly started :) ).

 

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Was a great event with a lot of familiar faces from last year and also some new one.

Had a lot of very close games. Lost the first one by 1 point, got into day two with the last attack in game 6 killing the enemy R2-D2 on the point with "Positioning Advantage". In Top-16 Alistair made an insane comeback from losing Vader in my first activation at round two and beat me by exactly 1 point.

I think I faced 3 IGs during the tournament. Most players were prepared for the droid: 9 activations-lists and a lot of command card control (spys, "shoot the messenger", "stall for time").

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 I met plenty of Iggys in the Swiss, probably making their prevalence one of trajectory. ?

And as a clarification, the second time a mission was played in Swiss was actually on day two after the cut.

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