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ovinomanc3r

Leaders limit question

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New expansion just arrived here so I played it yesterday. I don't get the leaders limit completely. Before, the Empire could get up to one extra leader turning her to the dark side. Count her against rebel limit or empire limit? Also confused now with captured and freezed cause they are not going back to the leader pool.

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The limit applies only when you have more than 8 leaders in your pool. So a leader turned to the dark side counts for the Empire to see if it has more than 8 leaders at the moment that all the leaders return to the leader pool and not before.
Also with captured rebel leaders, as long as they are captured they don'y count for anyone to check that limit as they never reach the leader pool while captured. So hypotetically the rebel player may have 8 leaders in his pool, plus 1 captured leader, plus 1 leader in carbonite. But in that case, when 1 of those leaders is rescued and they come back to the pool at the end of the turn, you'll be having more than 8 leaders in your pool, so you'll have to eliminate 1.
 

Edited by Lemmiwinks86

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This is true, sadly. But its a very, very big set back for the empire. it should be like this; with a leader turned DS totals at nine leaders. Heck, id even love it for captured leaders to count towards the rebel maximum. so that if you have a guy in carbonite and a guy in prison you can only have 6 leaders max in your pool. Also, the current ruling makes it so there is actually no rebel incentive to rescue leaders. Why would you? when they are released, they will kill another leader. its weird.

 

Imps need a lot of leaders to move ships around so they suffer greatly from the new leader limits, imho.

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On 5/28/2018 at 2:46 PM, Lemmiwinks86 said:

The limit applies only when you have more than 8 leaders in your pool. So a leader turned to the dark side counts for the Empire to see if it has more than 8 leaders at the moment that all the leaders return to the leader pool and not before.
Also with captured rebel leaders, as long as they are captured they don'y count for anyone to check that limit as they never reach the leader pool while captured. So hypotetically the rebel player may have 8 leaders in his pool, plus 1 captured leader, plus 1 leader in carbonite. But in that case, when 1 of those leaders is rescued and they come back to the pool at the end of the turn, you'll be having more than 8 leaders in your pool, so you'll have to eliminate 1.
 

are we 100 percent sure, this is how it works?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Scoundrel said:

are we 100 percent sure, this is how it works?

Yes. This is the exact rule, quoted from the expansion's rulebook:

"If a player ever has more than 8 leaders in his leader pool, he must choose 8 to keep and eliminate the excess (remove them from the game)."

It specifically mentions the leader pool, so if you don't have more than 8 in the pool, you don't have to eliminate anyone because of that limit.

Edited by Lemmiwinks86

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9 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

Yes. This is the exact rule, quoted from the expansion's rulebook:

"If a player ever has more than 8 leaders in his leader pool, he must choose 8 to keep and eliminate the excess (remove them from the game)."

It specifically mentions the leader pool, so if you don't have more than 8 in the pool, you don't have to eliminate anyone because of that limit.

 

yes, I know. its how I read it too. but it makes for a big disadvantage for the empire imho. and they dont need that : ) 

 

why would the rebels ever be interested in rescuing captured dudes in the late game? 

 

btw now that I got you lemmiwinks, can I ask you one more thing? you always put the answers so clearly;

 I've been wondering how exactly recruiting works since we started playing the game. You draw 2 cards. you can then recruit one of the guys portrayed on the 2 cards. BUT can you then chose to put either card in your hand or does it have to be the one you recruit from?

Also, my gaming logic tells me that you need to show your opponent the recruiting icons in order to verify that you actually got the guy you chose BUT then he sees your action card and potentially knows the ability on it? are we supposed to hide the text with our fingers?  that seems super clumsy design.

thanks!

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and one more last ting; many of us miss some of the missions from the old mission set. Wouldn't it be ok to just shuffle the missions we like from the old set into the new? I can't see why not..

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23 hours ago, Scoundrel said:

 

yes, I know. its how I read it too. but it makes for a big disadvantage for the empire imho. and they dont need that : ) 

 

why would the rebels ever be interested in rescuing captured dudes in the late game? 

 

btw now that I got you lemmiwinks, can I ask you one more thing? you always put the answers so clearly;

 I've been wondering how exactly recruiting works since we started playing the game. You draw 2 cards. you can then recruit one of the guys portrayed on the 2 cards. BUT can you then chose to put either card in your hand or does it have to be the one you recruit from?

Also, my gaming logic tells me that you need to show your opponent the recruiting icons in order to verify that you actually got the guy you chose BUT then he sees your action card and potentially knows the ability on it? are we supposed to hide the text with our fingers?  that seems super clumsy design.

thanks!

Sure, I'll try to answer the best that I can.

why would the rebels ever be interested in rescuing captured dudes in the late game?
There may be many reasons. If you are using the mission cards from the core, then there are really few ways for you to recruit a leader apart from the 4 you get to recruit on turns 2, 3, 4 and 5, so if one is captured you'll be most probably stuck with only 7 leaders. Another scenarios could be that you have the objective that you can play if there are no captured leaders or to prevent the imperial player to play their terrible mission cards that can be used against captured leaders (in our games many times the Yularen's mission card was key to the imperial victory, or another could be the carbonite one that make you lose 1 reputation and give the empire the oportunity to capture then a second rebel leader).

 

 I've been wondering how exactly recruiting works since we started playing the game. You draw 2 cards. you can then recruit one of the guys portrayed on the 2 cards. BUT can you then chose to put either card in your hand or does it have to be the one you recruit from?
No, you MUST keep the card from the leader you recruited and you don't have to show it to your oponent. Rebellion is a game where there should be trust between the players. But if there isn't, that case is addressed on the rules under "Cheating":
"At the end of the game, if a player is revealed to have cheated (intentionally or accidentally), he loses the game, and his opponent wins. This includes moving from the Rebel base to an illegal system or recruiting a leader that does not match the action cards he chose."

 

and one more last ting; many of us miss some of the missions from the old mission set. Wouldn't it be ok to just shuffle the missions we like from the old set into the new? I can't see why not..
Maybe you're aware of this, but just to be sure, before the game each player chooses if he wants to play with the mission cards from the core or the ones from the expansion (but always including ALL the cards with faces), it's not that you are obligued to play with the expansion ones. Now, as a houserule I think that there would be no problem if you want to shuffle together some of them into a single deck and play with all at once. I think that maybe the rules tell you to use either one or the other for balance purposes, but as I said, as a houserule I think there would be no problem if you want to play with all at once and see how it goes.

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Just spit balling here, but what would people think about an alternative to eliminating leaders above the 8 allowed in your leader pool?  Instead of eliminating them, they're (say) laid down next to the pool (or elsewhere), where they can't be used in a turn, but are available as one of the 8 at a later time.

 

In example, let's say you're playing Imperials, you've turned Luke to the Dark Side after capturing him, and now you have 9 leaders returning to the pool. Instead of eliminating one, you simply lie him down outside of the pool area, and then place your 8 active leaders in the pool for the turn. Then, when returning leaders to the pool on a later turn, you could swap that leader for another.

 

Just an idea, which probably helps the Rebels out more, but I wondered if anyone has any thoughts on it.

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9 hours ago, coastcityo said:

Just spit balling here, but what would people think about an alternative to eliminating leaders above the 8 allowed in your leader pool?  Instead of eliminating them, they're (say) laid down next to the pool (or elsewhere), where they can't be used in a turn, but are available as one of the 8 at a later time.

This is exactly how I play and it works great.

You shouldn't be punished for successfully completing "Lure of the Dark Side" mission, or taking "An Old Friend" action card instead of another.

For us, this came about for two reasons. First, there is no limit in the base game and there's never been any outstanding balance issues there. But the larger reason came from having to "eliminate" a 9th leader from the pool, only to have another leader eliminated via "Confrontation" advanced tactic card on the next round. The same could happen to the Rebels, eliminate a 9th or leader due to over crowding, just to have a leader lost to "LotDS" and "Make an Example". Now they're down to 6 leaders when it could be seven.

I recommend the variant @coastcityomentioned. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has tried this already and what their experiences have been.

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

That or Vader force chokes them

That would have been a great action card:

"You Have Failed Me for the Last Time":
Place Darth Vader in a system where another non-starting Imperial Leader has lost a battle or failed a mission. That leader is eliminated. At the beginning of the refresh phase, you may recruit 1 leader of your choice.

A nice cost benefit scenario. Spend a leader now, and potentially waste an action card, for the ability to gain any leader you want without their action card.

Edited by thestag

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