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Scum and villainy faction talk(Solo spoilers)

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1 minute ago, 1728maxfirepower said:

Boba Fett could be a commander in the Scum faction.

I agree. All it would take is new cards printed for him and his commands. So he could be an operative for the Empire or a commander for a scum faction.

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NO SCUM PLEASE!!!

Scum works, to a point, in X-Wing, but it should stay out of Legion just like it has Armada.  None of the Scum factions were ever serious contenders in the GCW, most certainly not in terms of force-on-force ground combat.  

If a new faction is added, it should be from the Clone Wars, or ****, I'd take even the Vong well before Scum. 

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2 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

NO SCUM PLEASE!!!

Scum works, to a point, in X-Wing, but it should stay out of Legion just like it has Armada.  None of the Scum factions were ever serious contenders in the GCW, most certainly not in terms of force-on-force ground combat.  

If a new faction is added, it should be from the Clone Wars, or ****, I'd take even the Vong well before Scum. 

That might be true for the Empire, but several of the crime syndicates were more than capable of matching the Rebels, especially on the ground.  There are also large chunks of space that the Empire doesn't have control over but the crime syndicates do so don't discount the amount of resources they could bring to bear given the need.

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Imagine how awesome Darth Maul with his Crimson Dawn security force would look on the tabletop, with Beckett as an operative.

And maybe some of these Pyke Sentinels (they kinda look like budget Helghast and I like it).

solo-db-pyke-sentinels-main-image_c68e764a.jpg.a1b6b3ab930db75dd25e4b8b08506631.jpg

Edited by Bdolfos

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I liked the Fringe faction in Star Wars miniatures no reason it couldn’t work similar in Legion.

Also opens up more build options. Hopefully it’s not too late for FFG to reconsider and change the card faction or add a replacement? It was even possible in SWminis to run an all Fringe faction team. If FFG release a Fringe mercenary/trooper pack this could also translate into Legion. Just need a leader like Xizor or Jabba and away you go. This pack could also offer FFG the opportunity to put more alien types on the table.

Edited by Chimaera

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On 5/27/2018 at 4:22 PM, Alpha17 said:

NO SCUM PLEASE!!!

Scum works, to a point, in X-Wing, but it should stay out of Legion just like it has Armada.  None of the Scum factions were ever serious contenders in the GCW, most certainly not in terms of force-on-force ground combat.  

If a new faction is added, it should be from the Clone Wars, or ****, I'd take even the Vong well before Scum. 

Ah, you mean the Hutt Cartel who owned and ran an entire sector of the galaxy. Or the Black Sun, who rivaled the Empire at times. These tiny factions that consist of millions of members who keep the empire at bay with ease. They are definitely not contenders against the GCW Rebels who consist of a couple thousand, with a tiny fleet. 

Not wanting them. Fine. Not liking them. Fine. But yelling they don't belong with thin reasoning is really really really silly. 

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No to scum. Obviously the Empire didn't care too much about them attacking them. If you remember the Kessel Run scene, they start a blockade, so the only part the Scum played were allies to the Empire.  Also, due to the different factions with cartels, some had alliances, others were enemies. A scum faction can't support itself. Even though Maul has now been known to be a major player in cartels, still not enough for a complete 800-1,000 point army.  Sorry to disappoint you scum fans, but stick to X-Wing if you want it. Sorry if this but hurt you, but it doesn't belong here.

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I'm very much on the fence about a fringe faction...Solo did add a lot and I'm sure once the next couple films in that time period are released, there will probably be plenty to work from.

Would it fit? Probably so. The WoTC miniatures had a ton of fringe elements and miniatures, many of which were essentially grunts that would work as units in this game.

Id say this game is more of a large skirmish game than army vs army, so you could easily have 800-1000 point armies with some variation. Maybe a few commanders and operatives, 2-3 corps units, 1-2 spec. forces, 1-2 support and 1 heavy unit? 

Personally, I would hope that instead of just one overarching fringe faction with a hodgepodge mix of units that didnt make sense being together, there would be more separate, smaller armies. Such as Mandalorians, Black Sun, Bounty Hunter Guild(?), etc. They could even share vehicles too, just with separate corps units.

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Don’t see why a Fringe faction wouldn’t work, could have Boba on the Rebels side, after all they tend to hire out to the highest bidder, that said he was more pro Empire due to his Dad’s demise at the hand of Windu. Dash Rendar & Leebo would be a cool Fringe double pack release that would tie in with the Rebel snicely or join the Empire for a match when not in a Fringe army :)

As the game progresses and more Fringe types enter this would make even more sense especially as it will allow you to mix up army builds. A miniatures game should be flexible and varied. This said nothing to stop a house ruling but so much better if set up from the off.

The fact that you could also field a full Fringe army (if FFG released a Mercs/Scum/Villiany trooper pack + Cmdr type) and introduce a very plausible faction in to the game would also be a bonus and mix up gameplay.

Edited by Chimaera

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7 hours ago, AldousSnow said:

Ah, you mean the Hutt Cartel who owned and ran an entire sector of the galaxy. Or the Black Sun, who rivaled the Empire at times. These tiny factions that consist of millions of members who keep the empire at bay with ease. They are definitely not contenders against the GCW Rebels who consist of a couple thousand, with a tiny fleet. 

Not wanting them. Fine. Not liking them. Fine. But yelling they don't belong with thin reasoning is really really really silly. 

1

 

Black Sun never rivaled the Empire.  The one time it got uppity and tried to challenge the Empire, they got annihilated (Shadows of the Empire).  The only time they've ever been depicted as being a rival is in EaW:FoC, and that had far more to do with balance issues than lore accuracy. 

The Hutts are also an interesting situation because while they seem to be able to challenge the Empire (they were able to secure their independence after all) that's only because they were allowed to.  The best they were able to scrape together was barely able to fight off a token Imperial force, one that was under orders to fail.

The Rebellion, meanwhile, was at various times able to defeat the prime forces of the Empire, and even when defeated (Hoth) make a solid stand and largely escape.  A year later, they defeated the Empire in a stand-up, pitched battle at Endor, something no scum faction was anywhere close to.

In short: Scum works on small-scale games, or games that focus on named characters.  They work in X-Wing, and Imperial Assualt, but Legion and Armada should be left to actual military forces, not a collection of bounty hunters and thieves that people think are cool. 

Edited by Alpha17

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38 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

In short: Scum works on small-scale games, or games that focus on named characters.  They work in X-Wing, and Imperial Assualt, but Legion and Armada should be left to actual military forces, not a collection of bounty hunters and thieves that people think are cool. 

I would say this is a small scale game. 5 squads of stormtroopers and an AT-ST don't really seem like all out war to me. 

If this game was about having 5 AT-STs and 2 AT-ATs on the table I would agree that scum wouldn't make sense but it isn't. 

Edited by Bdolfos

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Yup Legion is a skirmish game very similar to SWminis so a Fringe faction that could be mixed in with the others or play on its own would not be a problem and indeed it is exactly the encounter size Fringe forces would be relevant in.

Edited by Chimaera

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25 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

 

Black Sun never rivaled the Empire.  The one time it got uppity and tried to challenge the Empire, they got annihilated (Shadows of the Empire).  The only time they've ever been depicted as being a rival is in EaW:FoC, and that had far more to do with balance issues than lore accuracy. 

The Hutts are also an interesting situation because while they seem to be able to challenge the Empire (they were able to secure their independence after all) that's only because they were allowed to.  The best they were able to scrape together was barely able to fight off a token Imperial force, one that was under orders to fail.

The Rebellion, meanwhile, was at various times able to defeat the prime forces of the Empire, and even when defeated (Hoth) make a solid stand and largely escape.  A year later, they defeated the Empire in a stand-up, pitched battle at Endor, something no scum faction was anywhere close to.

In short: Scum works on small-scale games, or games that focus on named characters.  They work in X-Wing, and Imperial Assualt, but Legion and Armada should be left to actual military forces, not a collection of bounty hunters and thieves that people think are cool. 

but thats kinda our point, this IS a small scale game.  You are only realistically dealing with about 50 people per side at most, and at most 5 light vehicles.  The Hutts, Black Sun, Crimson Dawn, Droid Gotra, and several other "Scum" factions could easily put that kinda force together.

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5 minutes ago, jcmonson said:

but thats kinda our point, this IS a small scale game.  You are only realistically dealing with about 50 people per side at most, and at most 5 light vehicles.  The Hutts, Black Sun, Crimson Dawn, Droid Gotra, and several other "Scum" factions could easily put that kinda force together.

Absolutely agree. The justifications for why a battle is happening between a Galactic Empire with effectively unlimited resources and some remote-world cartel are really only limited by the imagination. Perhaps some cartel stopped paying bribes to the local Moff so he sent a force to wipe them out. Perhaps an Imperial officer has compromising information on a gangster and the crime lord has decided to do a hit and run to eliminate the threat. As for battles with the Rebels (or other Scum) that's even easier to justify.

They would be a flavourful and varied faction with recognizable troops and weapons from the most popular period of the setting. It's close to improbable that they won't eventually be a faction in the game.

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Fringe even have access to some easy vehicles that totally fit in like Swoop bikes and the Ugnaught Uggernaught and Espo walker vehicles.

Edited by Chimaera

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9 hours ago, AldousSnow said:

Ah, you mean the Hutt Cartel who owned and ran an entire sector of the galaxy. Or the Black Sun, who rivaled the Empire at times. These tiny factions that consist of millions of members who keep the empire at bay with ease. They are definitely not contenders against the GCW Rebels who consist of a couple thousand, with a tiny fleet. 

Not wanting them. Fine. Not liking them. Fine. But yelling they don't belong with thin reasoning is really really really silly. 

Both never were a threat to the Empire. The reason they Just didn't get obliterated was because they were usefull.

As an opressive regime it's quite nice when you have some crime syndicates around that you can fight. After all the citizens should be thankfull you protect them from those outlaws, right?

The Black Sun got stomped hard when Xizor annoyed Vader more than he did usually. Vader diceded the Black Sun had outlived its usefullness (besides Vader hating Xizor already) in Shadows of the Empire.

Another great thing about not crashing those who controll the black market: If you pay them they'll keep those pesky Rebels from obtaining equipment and weapons. If you are going to crush them, they're more likely to help the Rebels.

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6 minutes ago, RogueLeader42 said:

Both never were a threat to the Empire. The reason they Just didn't get obliterated was because they were usefull.

As an opressive regime it's quite nice when you have some crime syndicates around that you can fight. After all the citizens should be thankfull you protect them from those outlaws, right?

The Black Sun got stomped hard when Xizor annoyed Vader more than he did usually. Vader diceded the Black Sun had outlived its usefullness (besides Vader hating Xizor already) in Shadows of the Empire.

Another great thing about not crashing those who controll the black market: If you pay them they'll keep those pesky Rebels from obtaining equipment and weapons. If you are going to crush them, they're more likely to help the Rebels.

The same thing could be said for the Rebels though.  I mean look at what happens when the rebels go up against the Empire on the ground.  Scarif, Rebels get destroyed, Hoth, Rebels get destroyed.  The only time the Rebels don't get destroyed is when the Emperor wants them captured, and then they get captured pretty much immediately.  If the Emperor wasn't trying to make a point and just wanted to kill the Rebels they would have been destroyed to.  None of the factions could match the Empire on the ground.  This game isn't just about who can battle the Empire, Its about the Galactic Civil War.  All of the Scum factions would have just as good reasons for fighting the Rebels, and if you need a reason for them fighting the Empire, just think of it as a raid to get supplies.

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