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Marvingardns

Imperial Army > Stormtrooper Corps

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I'm not sure what everyone else thought of Solo, but after watching the film tonight, I totally want some regular Imperial Army infantry... not the pi$$-poor shot, white plastic Stormtrooper Corps.  The ten minutes or so of Han Solo's career in the regular Imperial Army was perhaps the most grimy, spectacular but ephemeral glimpse of the Empire at war I have seen yet in a Star Wars film, and the Empire's grey and mud-spackled "schutzen" in trench coats look so much cooler than the Stormtrooper Corps.

The same goes for the Rebel "Vanguard" troops from Rogue One with the Vietnam-era feel to their garb.  I totally digged the flak jackets and M1-like helmets of the rebels fighting in Scarif.

Edited by Marvingardns

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So have we confirmed how those mudtrooper guys fit into the bigger picture? Are the stormtroopers? Are they some other branch of the military? If they're not stormies, how do the stormtroopers fit into the picture? We often see them in policing/peacekeeping roles, as well as being based on ships/deathstar etc. Are they like the 'marines' of the galactic empire? Is a posting in the stormtrooper corp seen as more or less prestigious/elite than being a mudtrooper? If a mudtrooper is distinct from a stormtrooper, how does something like a shoretrooper or deathtrooper fit in? Same stormtrooper corp? Are the mudtroopers representative of a much large 'general infantry' organisation? Do they outnumber the stormtroopers by any significant amount? Or are they just another 'shore/sand/snowtrooper' variant?

SO MANY QUESTIONS!

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2 hours ago, Chucknuckle said:

So have we confirmed how those mudtrooper guys fit into the bigger picture? Are the stormtroopers? Are they some other branch of the military? If they're not stormies, how do the stormtroopers fit into the picture? We often see them in policing/peacekeeping roles, as well as being based on ships/deathstar etc. Are they like the 'marines' of the galactic empire? Is a posting in the stormtrooper corp seen as more or less prestigious/elite than being a mudtrooper? If a mudtrooper is distinct from a stormtrooper, how does something like a shoretrooper or deathtrooper fit in? Same stormtrooper corp? Are the mudtroopers representative of a much large 'general infantry' organisation? Do they outnumber the stormtroopers by any significant amount? Or are they just another 'shore/sand/snowtrooper' variant?

SO MANY QUESTIONS!

The Imperial Army are the standard infantry of the Empire. The Stormtroopers are the elite assault troops.
The term "Mudtrooper" seems to be no official term but rather a derogatory term used by officers.
As far as I know shoretroopers are part of the Imperial Army.
Deathtroopers are neither part of the Army nor the Stormtrooper Corps. They are special forces.

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3 hours ago, Chucknuckle said:

So have we confirmed how those mudtrooper guys fit into the bigger picture? Are the stormtroopers? Are they some other branch of the military? If they're not stormies, how do the stormtroopers fit into the picture? We often see them in policing/peacekeeping roles, as well as being based on ships/deathstar etc. Are they like the 'marines' of the galactic empire? Is a posting in the stormtrooper corp seen as more or less prestigious/elite than being a mudtrooper? If a mudtrooper is distinct from a stormtrooper, how does something like a shoretrooper or deathtrooper fit in? Same stormtrooper corp? Are the mudtroopers representative of a much large 'general infantry' organisation? Do they outnumber the stormtroopers by any significant amount? Or are they just another 'shore/sand/snowtrooper' variant?

SO MANY QUESTIONS!

Stormtroopers are probably more elite infantry than regular army guys (Mudtroopers) as we see them protect top secret stuff like the Death Star or Scarif.

Shoretroopers are just a specialized unit of Stormtroopers and Death Troopers are special forces of the Imperial Intelligence.

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11 hours ago, Marvingardns said:

I'm not sure what everyone else thought of Solo, but after watching the film tonight, I totally want some regular Imperial Army infantry... not the pi$$-poor shot, white plastic Stormtrooper Corps.  The ten minutes or so of Han Solo's career in the regular Imperial Army was perhaps the most grimy, spectacular but ephemeral glimpse of the Empire at war I have seen yet in a Star Wars film, and the Empire's grey and mud-spackled "schutzen" in trench coats look so much cooler than the Stormtrooper Corps.

The same goes for the Rebel "Vanguard" troops from Rogue One with the Vietnam-era feel to their garb.  I totally digged the flak jackets and M1-like helmets of the rebels fighting in Scarif.

Did we see the same movie?  The Imperial Army guys came off as cannon fodder, thrown into frontal assaults with mass casualties.  They brought to mind Russian or Chinese troops in WWI and Korea, respectively.  The stormtroopers scattered throughout the battle seemed to be there to provide the IA formation with a bit of a spine, and ensure the unit didn't collapse in combat.  

If IA infantry appears in the game, I'd expect them to be cheaper, but far more expendable than Stormtroopers.  Say, 30 points per unit, 1-2 range, white die, no surge, fewer upgrade options, no precise.  Maybe a buff that if within range one of an operative/commander, courage stat goes up. 

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Hi, the Imperial Army have been referenced for years in SW lore like West End Games and the more recent Imperial Handbook and I was thrilled to see them finally brought to the cinematic lore. 

They are a very plausible elenent in the mix of Imperial military resources. 40k has Imperial Guard and Space Marines, SW has Imperial Army and Storntrooper Corp. The first provides the bulk of planetary garrison forces, the second provide the elite assault troops, rapid reaction forcez or security for the Emperor's most critical facilities.

The Stormtroopers are regarded as been more loyal, with better morale and training.  Imperial Army can include planetary conscripts with implications for performance ("what am i doing on Minban???' :) but they will have a full array of army support units. 

There were 25mm figures for them in the 1990s and hopefully they will join the forces of Legion.

Edited by skirmisher

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Even if I walk out of Solo next week hating it as a film(which seems unlikely based on the non-spoiler reviews I've seen so far), it still gets top-marks for re-canonising these guys. As long as they're definitely a distinct branch and not just a Shoretrooper-esque RSS(Ridiculously Specialised Stormtrooper), I will be happy. I agree though; I'd be even more happy if they come out as a unit for Legion.

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If Lego can do it...

http://www.rebelscum.com/2018/lego_75211_hansolo_500.jpg

... then FFG can bl**dy well do it.

Why did the filmmakers choose to resurrect our beloved Imperial Army troopers (if that's what they were)? From a practical point of view, I suspect it was useful for Han and his compatriots to not have stormtrooper-like helmets wholly covering their features. And would it have felt quite 'right' to have had Han's backstory include a period of service as a supposed fanatically loyal Stormtrooper?

Anyhoo, I don't care. I loved it. And I want some Imperial Army troopers - and some Navy troopers too.

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46 minutes ago, Yodhrin said:

Even if I walk out of Solo next week hating it as a film(which seems unlikely based on the non-spoiler reviews I've seen so far), it still gets top-marks for re-canonising these guys. As long as they're definitely a distinct branch and not just a Shoretrooper-esque RSS(Ridiculously Specialised Stormtrooper), I will be happy. I agree though; I'd be even more happy if they come out as a unit for Legion.

I've been assuming that the Shoretrooper is more of a lighter weight variant for areas with a lot of water or similar things that could be a problem. There would be other worlds that they would deploy on, we just don't see them in the movies as of yet.

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4 hours ago, Shadows of the Future said:

I've been assuming that the Shoretrooper is more of a lighter weight variant for areas with a lot of water or similar things that could be a problem. There would be other worlds that they would deploy on, we just don't see them in the movies as of yet.

Not according to the Visual Guide for the movie. To quote the Shoretrooper entry:

"Specialist elite Stormtroopers assigned to the once-beautiful world of Scarif, these soldiers lead security patrols, scout the beaches, and man the barracks of the Imperial military installation on the planet. While their armour afford them greater mobility in the seaside terrain, at their core they are standard stromtroopers elevated by military necessity. Most shoretroopers operate at an effective sergeant rank, allowing them to command squads of stormtrooper infantry.

Due to the environmentally specific nature of their postings, shoretroopers - formally known as coastal defender stormtroopers - are a rare sight in the galaxy. The troopers assigned to Scarif wear armour specific to their location, meaning shoretroopers encountered elsewhere may not necessary look the same. Being a shoretrooper is a rotational role that stormtroopers adopt when their orders demand it, and their rank and training qualifies them for it."

So they're basically Stormtroopers with some apparently vital additional expertise in...wading through six inches of beach surf? Not getting sand in their boots(insert meme here)? But who get super-duper-special-snowflake armour just for Scarif and, apparently, also for everywhere else they're posted though thankfully that's apparently mercifully not that many places. That's one way to read it anyway, I prefer to pretend that the Scarif blokes are a one-off and elsewhere they just use the same basic "warm weather" mods to regular Trooper armour that sandtroopers and magmatroopers do, or just use regular Scout gear.

Edited by Yodhrin

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21 minutes ago, Yodhrin said:

Not according to the Visual Guide for the movie. To quote the Shoretrooper entry:

"Specialist elite Stormtroopers assigned to the once-beautiful world of Scarif, these soldiers lead security patrols, scout the beaches, and man the barracks of the Imperial military installation on the planet. While their armour afford them greater mobility in the seaside terrain, at their core they are standard stromtroopers elevated by military necessity. Most shoretroopers operate at an effective sergeant rank, allowing them to command squads of stormtrooper infantry.

Due to the environmentally specific nature of their postings, shoretroopers - formally known as coastal defender stormtroopers - are a rare sight in the galaxy. The troopers assigned to Scarif wear armour specific to their location, meaning shoretroopers encountered elsewhere may not necessary look the same. Being a shoretrooper is a rotational role that stormtroopers adopt when their orders demand it, and their rank and training qualifies them for it."

So they're basically Stormtroopers with some apparently vital additional expertise in...wading through six inches of beach surf? Not getting sand in their boots(insert meme here)? But who get super-duper-special-snowflake armour just for Scarif and, apparently, also for everywhere else they're posted though thankfully that's apparently mercifully not that many places. That's one way to read it anyway, I prefer to pretend that the Scarif blokes are a one-off and elsewhere they just use the same basic "warm weather" mods to regular Trooper armour that sandtroopers and magmatroopers do, or just use regular Scout gear.

The specific variant may simply be more of warmer weather and lighter.

Sure, there's shallow water everywhere, but if you're on the edges and in other parts of the area, there may be several deeper or swifter flowing waterways. Different types may vary by the temperature of the areas they're sent to. Some far more insulated ones for colder ones, more breatheable for places like Scarif where the heat could be just as bad as the water.

We also don't really know how buoyant various stormtrooper armors are.

Considering the nature of the Scarif facility, it's also possible that there are better encryption for the Imperial comms and other things of the sort there.

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1 minute ago, Shadows of the Future said:

The specific variant may simply be more of warmer weather and lighter.

Sure, there's shallow water everywhere, but if you're on the edges and in other parts of the area, there may be several deeper or swifter flowing waterways. Different types may vary by the temperature of the areas they're sent to. Some far more insulated ones for colder ones, more breatheable for places like Scarif where the heat could be just as bad as the water.

We also don't really know how buoyant various stormtrooper armors are.

Considering the nature of the Scarif facility, it's also possible that there are better encryption for the Imperial comms and other things of the sort there.

The bugbear for me is that the whole theme of the Empire is supposed to be faceless mass-production and standardisation, barring a tiny minority of super-elite exceptions like Death Troopers. The three styles of armour seen in the OT already cover all the bases; Seatroopers, Magmatroopers, Sandtroopers, and now it seems "Trenchtroopers"(ie the Mimban stormtroopers), are all basically the same thing as Shoretroopers - regular stormtroopers with some environment-specific training - and they all get slightly modified versions of the basic trooper armour. Blizzard Force have the hostile environment gear set up for ultra-cold environments. Storm Commandos just get modified versions of the Scout armour. Even Inferno Squad, an Imperial Special Forces unit, are issued with modified TIE pilot gear.

Yet "guys who're a bit better at fighting on tropical beaches" have an entirely bespoke setup? Bleugh. At least the Visual Guide entry gives a way to pretend the few other instances of them are treated similarly to everyone else and just use slightly different Scout or trooper gear.

But, regardless, it seems like my concern the "Mudtroopers" would be another instance of that toy-pushing special-snowflakery was unfounded and they're not a new Stormtrooper variant, so I'm happy.

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I saw Solo opening night and can guarantee you that the "Mudtroopers" are not Stormtroopers. The "Mimban Stormtrooper" is present in the movie but that is about it. There is plenty in the movie to expand the new canon but it's focus is definitely on Han's story, not the Empire or the GCW.

Edited by NeonWolf

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If Mudtroopers make it to Legion, here's how I think they should work:

Mudtroopers

35 points

1 White die per figure melee

1 Black die per figure at ranges 1-3

No surge

White defence die

Health 1

Courage 1

Keyword: Cowardly This unit can perform a free move action whilst engaged in a melee.

Personel upgrade

Heavy weapon upgrade.

Grenade upgrade

Equipment upgrade

 

Mudtrooper

Personel upgrade

7 points

Add 1 Mudtrooper mini to this unit

1 Black die for this mini at range 1-3

 

Mimban Stormtrooper

Heavy weapon upgrade

11 points

Add 1 Mimban Stormtrooper mini to this unit

Unit gains 1 courage

1 Black die and 1 White die for this mini at ranges 1-3

 

Heavy Mudtrooper

Heavy weapon upgrade

14 points

Add 1 Heavy Mudtrooper mini to this unit

1 Black die and 3 White die for this mini at range 1-3

Edited by Indy_com

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22 hours ago, Yodhrin said:

The bugbear for me is that the whole theme of the Empire is supposed to be faceless mass-production and standardisation, barring a tiny minority of super-elite exceptions like Death Troopers. The three styles of armour seen in the OT already cover all the bases; Seatroopers, Magmatroopers, Sandtroopers, and now it seems "Trenchtroopers"(ie the Mimban stormtroopers), are all basically the same thing as Shoretroopers - regular stormtroopers with some environment-specific training - and they all get slightly modified versions of the basic trooper armour. Blizzard Force have the hostile environment gear set up for ultra-cold environments. Storm Commandos just get modified versions of the Scout armour. Even Inferno Squad, an Imperial Special Forces unit, are issued with modified TIE pilot gear.

Yet "guys who're a bit better at fighting on tropical beaches" have an entirely bespoke setup? Bleugh. At least the Visual Guide entry gives a way to pretend the few other instances of them are treated similarly to everyone else and just use slightly different Scout or trooper gear.

But, regardless, it seems like my concern the "Mudtroopers" would be another instance of that toy-pushing special-snowflakery was unfounded and they're not a new Stormtrooper variant, so I'm happy.

Seatroopers are more in scuba type gear, Shore Troopers are for environments where it's still wet, but more for surface operations where it's more of a situation where they aren't weighed down by the armor if they end up in the water. You're giving up some armor for not ending up dealing with drowning or getting stuck in the muck. It's also possible that it's a generally outdated version of the Scout Trooper armor that still works great for that environment, so while it was updated elsewhere, the armor got left in use there.

The various vehicular troopers seem to have largely the same armor, but different head gear. The helmets might actually tie into the various vehicles systems for a HUD there which would be a pretty good reason for why there are the AT-AT drivers and the tank troopers. Some of the armor pieces could be added or removed either by how dangerous the area is or by preference...

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From the wiki which draws from the official guide as its reference:

Early in the rule of the Galactic Empire, the Imperial Army deployed soldiers separate from stormtroopers. They were often members of local planetary defense forces who fought during the Clone Wars and were conscripted into the Imperial Military. The Imperial Army gradually upgraded and replaced the soldiers with stormtroopers. Swamp troopers were soldiers of the Imperial Army that were classified as regular infantry, and not stormtroopers.

Just looks like they are filler until the Empire could fully field Stormtroopers. Also, the Swamp/Mudtrooper looks to just be an Imperial Army trooper with the goggles pulled down and a wearing a breathing mask. 

500?cb=20180414153058

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2 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

From the wiki which draws from the official guide as its reference:

Early in the rule of the Galactic Empire, the Imperial Army deployed soldiers separate from stormtroopers. They were often members of local planetary defense forces who fought during the Clone Wars and were conscripted into the Imperial Military. The Imperial Army gradually upgraded and replaced the soldiers with stormtroopers. Swamp troopers were soldiers of the Imperial Army that were classified as regular infantry, and not stormtroopers.

Just looks like they are filler until the Empire could fully field Stormtroopers. Also, the Swamp/Mudtrooper looks to just be an Imperial Army trooper with the goggles pulled down and a wearing a breathing mask. 

500?cb=20180414153058

Looks like the Veers/AT-ST Driver gear with a rebreather and a few additional pieces of armor along with a cloak or poncho

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7 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

Also, the Swamp/Mudtrooper looks to just be an Imperial Army trooper with the goggles pulled down and a wearing a breathing mask. 

 

500?cb=20180414153058

It is.

 

Solo Spoiler:

 


In Solo you can clearly see Army Troopers with rebreathers on and goggles still on their helmets, as well as Troopers with goggles down and no rebreather.


So if they get released they'd most probably called "Imperial Army Trooper". Maybe some have their rebreathers and goggles on. But the Swamptrooper would essentially just be this unit equipped with environmental gear.

Edited by RogueLeader42

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