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FrogTrigger

Does ffg still care about this game ?

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I was looking at runewars the other day at my LGS, it used to have a sweet spot beside 40k upfront ready to go, now since Legion came out it's been pushed to the back where nobody sees it. Piled up on the floor collecting dust. It was like an episode of the Simpsons, some guy in there with his kid, guy is holding a legion game in his hand, kid points at runewars "daddy what is that game?" Dad responds, "it used to be FFGs popular miniatures game before Legion." 

The player base in my area went from healthy and growing to stagnant when Legion dropped. Just a few remain clinging to the game and those I've talked to only do so because they already invested so much, but they vastly prefer the Legion system. 

Then I started looking around the web and it seems like that attitude is pretty much the norm. So many communities were devastated by the Legion bomb. Pretty hard to compete with Star Wars, even if you prefer the fantasy system, the tray system is just inferior to legions system.

I just think it's to bad because it seems like a fun game I'd like to try, but because of Legion it is just not a viable option anymore. 

I can't even ask on this forum "How is you community doing?" Because all the players that have quit and moved to Legion won't be here to talk about the same effect on their communities.

Is there any hope for RuneWars? 

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2 minutes ago, FrogTrigger said:

the tray system is just inferior to legions system

Excuse you!

Anyway it's niche, a bit sabotaged by FFG's legion timing, but an excellent game that excels at its design intent of rank & flank. If people prefer Legion (or any number of other games) they will play that, but I am extremely glad for this game. Plus, a new release was announced literally this morning, no need to doom prophet.

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10 minutes ago, FrogTrigger said:

the tray system is just inferior to legions system.

I'm not sure where I stand on the tray and rank and file versus the Legion system.  However what I can say with confidence is the RW Command Dial system is much better.

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I was skeptical of Runewars (as an x-wing player) when I first saw it announced but the system won me over in the following months. The exact opposite happened with Legion. I was originally really excited when it was announced, but was then turned off by a system that bores me to tears.

Every game I play of Runewars just makes me want to play more.

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RuneWars' command dials and movement make it the tactically deeper game by far. Legion's orders and suppression are all that make it stand out, from a strategy standpoint. It's got more meat to it than I initially gave it credit for, but it will always feel like FFG's lighter, beer-and-pretzels-ier miniatures offering.

Movement is so trivially important in Legion, it really comes down to deployment, objective and target selection, and die rolls. Which is fine for what it is. But when it comes to a competitive environment with interesting meta play, games that have to be played out on the table because there are actual tactical mistakes and bluffs to be made, and a system that truly rewards the better general, I think RuneWars has the staying power here. It'll take a while for that to become apparent, I think; the Star Wars shine has to rub off, and the relaunch of X-Wing could go either way -- either bringing template-movers back to the table where they might see RWM being played and get interested, or make them reinvest in XWM where they might have been in a position to peel them off to try RWM sooner. Either way, if we make the effort to build interest and communities, it's by no means too late to develop RuneWars' community into the powerhouse it should become, long-term.

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13 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

I stopped playing cause the Daqan kinda suck. Rune Golems are bad, oathsworn are the least maneuverable cavalry though crossbowmen are amazing at least. 

You need to try out a 4x1 Oathsworn with Wind Rune, Ranked Discipline and Raven Tabards.    It's much more maneuverable and big alpha-strike threat.

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45 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

I stopped playing cause the Daqan kinda suck. Rune Golems are bad, oathsworn are the least maneuverable cavalry though crossbowmen are amazing at least. 

While you are correct that they are the least maneuverable cav unit, with Raven Tabards, Oathsworn can give you a huge bang for your buck.  The ability to out-charge almost anything and then get another attack before them at initiative 3, while armoring up, the next round is very strong.  I typically play Waiqar, but when I have played Daqan these guys are usually my MVPs.  Especially a 3x2 reformed with Hawthorn and RT.  That unit is really good for it's price and can reasonably drop 18 damage on something before it ever gets a chance to strike back.  Pretty amazing for 48 points...

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On 5/27/2018 at 2:29 PM, FrogTrigger said:

Good points guys thanks for the replies. I want to be optimistic about this game, I really do. Time will tell. I think I'll wait a bit to see what happens with my local community before I buy in. 

Another thing to keep in mind.  Compared to their Star Wars products, Runewars is going to have a larger margin.

1) They aren't paying for licensing fees

2) They don't have to send off every item for approval to the big mouse before they can move forward (which costs a good chunk of time and resources I imagine)

So this can afford them to have a smaller player base and keep the product profitable.  

I hope at least :)

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 I am starting to see a slight shift in attention from legion to Runewars even from FFG’s standpoint.  I don’t see legion as a tourney game as it is like 2.5hrs long a round and honestly with all the dice rolling mechanics it just doesn’t feel you are rewarded as much with a good game plan, list building, and executing.  It’s a fun casual game for sure but in my experience a good Competitive game has longevity and draws people in more because in a tourney you have an established equal playing field where you can get 3+ Games in on a single day.  Also FFG needs to promote their own IP more.  Star Wars products are just not selling like they used to and the movies at the box office keep tanking.  How long before FFG loses the license to Star Wars due to it not being a seller because Disney is ruining the magic of it with over commercialization and political propaganda.  I am not saying it is going to happen now or in 5 years from now.  But if the trend continues it will happen and FFG will need the foresight to know if they don’t use this opportunity of the hype of Star Wars now to bring people into their other IP’s than they are not thinking for longevity purposes.  They are at the forefront of miniature wargaming competition right now going against the juggernauts like GW.  X-wing and other games brought a lot of people into the miniature tabletop wargaming like never before, but if FFG is not careful they will lose their edge.

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11 hours ago, Brikhause said:

 I am starting to see a slight shift in attention from legion to Runewars even from FFG’s standpoint.  I don’t see legion as a tourney game as it is like 2.5hrs long a round and honestly with all the dice rolling mechanics it just doesn’t feel you are rewarded as much with a good game plan, list building, and executing.  It’s a fun casual game for sure but in my experience a good Competitive game has longevity and draws people in more because in a tourney you have an established equal playing field where you can get 3+ Games in on a single day.  Also FFG needs to promote their own IP more.  Star Wars products are just not selling like they used to and the movies at the box office keep tanking.  How long before FFG loses the license to Star Wars due to it not being a seller because Disney is ruining the magic of it with over commercialization and political propaganda.  I am not saying it is going to happen now or in 5 years from now.  But if the trend continues it will happen and FFG will need the foresight to know if they don’t use this opportunity of the hype of Star Wars now to bring people into their other IP’s than they are not thinking for longevity purposes.  They are at the forefront of miniature wargaming competition right now going against the juggernauts like GW.  X-wing and other games brought a lot of people into the miniature tabletop wargaming like never before, but if FFG is not careful they will lose their edge.

I think X-wing 2.0 is going to steal back a lot of Legion players.  Meanwhile, Runewars is different enough that a lot of people will hopefully do both? (That and they like the dial / movement system in both games)

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15 hours ago, Brikhause said:

  and the movies at the box office keep tanking.  

The Last Jedi (no matter what we think of it personally) made 1.3 billion at box office. I know Solo is allegedly struggling to match up (only £100 million in four days compared to TFA making over twice that in the same timeframe) but it might have a longer tail than expected (if word of mouth is good).

The Star Wars brand is NOT the same as it was true (probably to be expected given the fact we’ve had 4 films in 5 years) but it’s not dead quite yet 

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41 minutes ago, Suhawk75 said:

The Last Jedi (no matter what we think of it personally) made 1.3 billion at box office. I know Solo is allegedly struggling to match up (only £100 million in four days compared to TFA making over twice that in the same timeframe) but it might have a longer tail than expected (if word of mouth is good).

The Star Wars brand is NOT the same as it was true (probably to be expected given the fact we’ve had 4 films in 5 years) but it’s not dead quite yet 

I didn’t say it was going to happen overnight but you have to be concerned where the Star Wars brand is going.  Ffg’s flagship game May look very bleak 4-5 years from now if Disney doesn’t right it’s course. 

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17 hours ago, Brikhause said:

Disney is ruining the magic of it with over commercialization and political propaganda

L...O...L to the political propaganda. Take off the tinfoil hat. 

 

As to the "does FFG still care" question, the fact that we have gotten news on future product is key to me. There is/was a legitimate question as to how FFG perceived the game and its sales. Apparently, they believe enough in RW to invest in creating new product. I'll still argue that they botched the rollout of this game, but I'm more optimistic about RW than I've been in months. 

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If you had asked before the new announcement of a hero, I would have said "probably not".  Now, I have to say "probably".  It was looking bad with hugely delayed product and no announcements, but with product finally on its way and a new announcement, it's hard to say the future is bleak.

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1 hour ago, Willange said:

If you had asked before the new announcement of a hero, I would have said "probably not".  Now, I have to say "probably".  It was looking bad with hugely delayed product and no announcements, but with product finally on its way and a new announcement, it's hard to say the future is bleak.

We are fickle and will forgive all when the new Daqan (a Runemage), Uthuk (that woman riding a scorpion), and Latari (a woman riding a war goat or something) heroes are announced. 

Edited by Church14

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5 hours ago, Church14 said:

We are fickle and will forgive all when the new Daqan (a Runemage), Uthuk (that woman riding a scorpion), and Latari (a woman riding a war goat or something) heroes are announced. 

You forgot the Ironbound and the Pegasus Riders and the Viper Legion, and the Barrow Wyrms.

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5 hours ago, Jukey said:

I’ll take a war goat any day

I wrote that as a joke... but it wouldn’t be any more absurd than the skinned meth-crack-phetamine demon zerglings that Uthuk use. 

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9 hours ago, Jukey said:

Honestly, the ultimate faction for me would be goblins, and if they happened to use war goats as cav...well, let’s just say FFG would be wealthy, very wealthy.

I want goblins riding giant insects!

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On 5/30/2018 at 12:11 PM, JGrand said:

L...O...L to the political propaganda. Take off the tinfoil hat. 

 

As to the "does FFG still care" question, the fact that we have gotten news on future product is key to me. There is/was a legitimate question as to how FFG perceived the game and its sales. Apparently, they believe enough in RW to invest in creating new product. I'll still argue that they botched the rollout of this game, but I'm more optimistic about RW than I've been in months. 

There is quite obviously a boycott by long-time, mostly white male fans in progress. It's not because they don't like women protagonists or more diversity. It's because KK and her minions have specifically shown them in their blatantly misandrist films (and told them directly when they complain about the direction the franchise is going) that they are not welcome as fans of Disney Star Wars. The "force is female", the First Order as specifically a representation of "white male" fascism, the disgraceful ends to Han Solo in Force Awakens and Luke Skywalker in "The Last Jedi", Finn as a bumbling idiot sidekick, Poe as a hotheaded representation of "toxic masculinity" put in his place by pink-haired Admiral Gender Studies, Rey as a perfect (and perfectly boring) Mary Sue who never has to earn anything, Lando retconned as a "pansexual", the irritatingly out-of-place SJW robot in "Solo", etc. I could go on and on. It's insulting to 50% of the fan base.

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6 minutes ago, Brikhause said:

There is quite obviously a boycott by long-time, mostly white male fans in progress. It's not because they don't like women protagonists or more diversity. It's because KK and her minions have specifically shown them in their blatantly misandrist films (and told them directly when they complain about the direction the franchise is going) that they are not welcome as fans of Disney Star Wars. The "force is female", the First Order as specifically a representation of "white male" fascism, the disgraceful ends to Han Solo in Force Awakens and Luke Skywalker in "The Last Jedi", Finn as a bumbling idiot sidekick, Poe as a hotheaded representation of "toxic masculinity" put in his place by pink-haired Admiral Gender Studies, Rey as a perfect (and perfectly boring) Mary Sue who never has to earn anything, Lando retconned as a "pansexual", the irritatingly out-of-place SJW robot in "Solo", etc. I could go on and on. It's insulting to 50% of the fan base.

YIKES

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