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Tiberius the Killer

Rebel Fleet Troopers, are they awful?

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3 hours ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

Funny because literally the first scene we saw in the first Star Wars movie was these guys getting wasted by storm troopers

And Darth had just hit them all with three suppression tokens, so they were in trouble to begin with as they had no support or leader.

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Just now, Patteous said:

I feel that’s where leia’s take cover synergizes well with these troopers. They got the dodge from her then if played in conjunction with her command card that lets a unit activate after her they can recover and open fire on enemy units. 

That is true and I think that will work great. I still think it's really optimistic to expect to be able to use the weapon every turn. I'm guessing most games you'll be lucky to use it three times.

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47 minutes ago, Jake the Hutt said:

That is true and I think that will work great. I still think it's really optimistic to expect to be able to use the weapon every turn. I'm guessing most games you'll be lucky to use it three times.

So the question then becomes is it worth the cost increase over the scatter gun. I am interested to test them both out and see how I like them. 

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Just now, Matt Antilles said:

So the question then becomes is it worth the cost increase over the scatter gun. I am interested to test them both out and see how I like them. 

Me too. I think the answer will be that in some games the grenade launcher is exactly what you want, and in some its not going to really work out well. Where the scatter gun is always going to work as long as you're at the right range.

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4 hours ago, Jake the Hutt said:

You can use it every turn if you're not suppressed. But often you will be. Even if you're not suppressed,  you may need to move instead of Aim to get line of sight on an enemy, get into range of the enemy or get to cover so you aren't wiped out. Often you'l need to Dodge to keep from getting wiped out. So its pretty unlikely you'll be able to reload and fire the weapon every turn.

If only there was a Commander to handle all of these issues

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1 minute ago, Tirion said:

If only there was a Commander to handle all of these issues

Leia helps, but not all of the time. She won't be able to remove suppression from your Fleet Troopers if they aren't right next to her.  And even if she is, the timing might not be right. Activate Leia too early and those Fleet Troopers might get shot at and suppressed again before they can react. Activate her too late and the Fleet Trooper may have already been activated. 

Take Cover is great, but only works at range 1. 

No time for sorrows helps Fleet Troopers move and reload or move and aim, but Leia can only use it once. 

So yes, Leia is great and really helps Fleet Troopers, but the stuff I listed is still a problem specifically  if what you want to be doing is shooting with the MPL every single turn as Mep advised (which is what the text you were quoting was a response to)

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5 hours ago, Jake the Hutt said:

You can use it every turn if you're not suppressed. But often you will be. Even if you're not suppressed,  you may need to move instead of Aim to get line of sight on an enemy, get into range of the enemy or get to cover so you aren't wiped out. Often you'l need to Dodge to keep from getting wiped out. So its pretty unlikely you'll be able to reload and fire the weapon every turn.

Yes, they can in fact be countered so they aren't stupid broken. Those reload guns can be so powerful they aren't meant to be used more than a few times a game.

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We have 8 infantry heavy weapons to compare right now.  

The MPL-B is probably the second most effective anti-vehicle option, depending on how you feel about Ion.  But, with Blast it is also a very good anti-trooper option too.  Unlike the Ion Weapons you won’t be sad you have it if you face an army with no armor.  But when that armor does show up you’ll be happy to have it over the Scattergun or Flamethrower that might be better against Troopers.  

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11 minutes ago, Mep said:

Yes, they can in fact be countered so they aren't stupid broken. Those reload guns can be so powerful they aren't meant to be used more than a few times a game.

You know I was specifically responding to this comment you made where you were talking about how good MLP because you can use it every turn, right?
 

Quote

Seriously, the MPL is sick. People really get hung up on the reload action (recover) for these guns. It just means you don't get to move and shot or aim and shoot. You can still use the thing every turn and how is that gun not the boss?

 

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2 hours ago, shmitty said:

We have 8 infantry heavy weapons to compare right now.  

The MPL-B is probably the second most effective anti-vehicle option, depending on how you feel about Ion.  But, with Blast it is also a very good anti-trooper option too.  Unlike the Ion Weapons you won’t be sad you have it if you face an army with no armor.  But when that armor does show up you’ll be happy to have it over the Scattergun or Flamethrower that might be better against Troopers.  

I think this is a point that people get stuck on, though.

 

Armies ALWAYS have a set minimum amount of trooper units.

You are always guaranteed to have at least 3 enemy trooper units on the other side of the table.

 

Gearing for vehicles is a maybe, gearing for troops is a guarantee.

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5 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Gearing for vehicles is a maybe, gearing for troops is a guarantee.

This is very true.  But that’s why I like the MPL-B, you can gear for vehicles without sacrificing troop killing prowess.  

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If the MPL-B had 2 black dice I'd be happy. Even though 2 white dice is technically more damage potential than a black, I just really dislike the higher variability of white dice. But, if you chuck enough white dice they should be alright....right? Somehow I'm not totally convincing myself lol. 

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What you are paying for with the MPL is the versatility; the impact combined will the blast.  If you are just looking to clear troopers, the shotgun does equal to or more damage vs. non-armor because of how good pierce is (even vs. heavy cover).  The numbers have been discussed extensively in at least two other threads, so I won’t repeat them in detail here, but just as an example vs. stormtroopers in heavy cover: full squad’s pool with MPL does average of 2.56 wounds, with shotgun it’s 2.62 wounds.

I’m not saying the MPL is bad, it’s just important to know that it’s not actually better vs. troopers in absolute terms than the shotgun is, cover or otherwise. The versatility and impact 2 is what you are paying those extra points/exhaust for.

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4 minutes ago, Orkimedes said:

What you are paying for with the MPL is the versatility; the impact combined will the blast.  If you are just looking to clear troopers, the shotgun does equal to or more damage vs. non-armor because of how good pierce is (even vs. heavy cover).  The numbers have been discussed extensively in at least two other threads, so I won’t repeat them in detail here, but just as an example vs. stormtroopers in heavy cover: full squad’s pool with MPL does average of 2.56 wounds, with shotgun it’s 2.62 wounds.

I’m not saying the MPL is bad, it’s just important to know that it’s not actually better vs. troopers in absolute terms than the shotgun is, cover or otherwise. The versatility and impact 2 is what you are paying those extra points/exhaust for.

To be fair, you're also paying for having a range band that the unit normally doesn't have access to which makes it hard to directly compare damage as you may get shots with the MPL you wouldn't with the shotgun.

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12 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

To be fair, you're also paying for having a range band that the unit normally doesn't have access to which makes it hard to directly compare damage as you may get shots with the MPL you wouldn't with the shotgun.

Yeah, good point.  That’s part of the versatility; you aren’t going to be doing much damage at range 3 with just the MPL dice, but if you need to throw down an emergency suppression and you don’t have a better unit to do that with you might be firing it at range 3.

Jack-of-all trades type weapons always fare poorly in efficient metrics.  It doesn’t mean they’re bad.  Running the straight math by itself in isolation doesn’t properly account for situations when you might need a a weapon to do multiple different things for you.

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13 hours ago, Jake the Hutt said:

You know I was specifically responding to this comment you made where you were talking about how good MLP because you can use it every turn, right?
 

 

If your opponent lets you fire every turn, you sure can. The option exist. It can be countered though. Most units don't fire 6 times in a game though, exhaust or otherwise. So yes, you are only meant to fire a few times per game. Make it count. The fact that your opponent can counter the MLP is very useful. Have them waste more resources countering your one unit than what that one unit is worth.

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On 5/25/2018 at 10:44 AM, Tiberius the Killer said:

So I haven't taken the plunge into Legion yet.  I plan to eventually, but I want to let the game mature a little before I invest.  But I have always been a fan of the Rebel Fleet troopers, and I am tempted to get some to paint up, and someday to include in my army.  But I want to know honestly, do they suck?  I really don't understand the game fully yet, so I have no way of gauging it.  I will be much less tempted to get them if I know they are awful in game.  Thanks for your help!

By the time you get into the game, who knows? I expect everything currently on the table will be cycled out within a couple of years.

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I used two units of them last night and they performed really well. Pierce on the scatter gun is great.

I used Leia's "No time for sorrows" to move a unit around a corner all but wipe out a unit of storm troopers and then get back behind the building.

If you can keep them out of site or in cover they are great for area denial.

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On 5/29/2018 at 9:38 PM, DagobahDave said:

By the time you get into the game, who knows? I expect everything currently on the table will be cycled out within a couple of years.

I expect you expect incorrectly

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