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New Waiqar Hero: Lord Vorun'thul

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*clears throat*

 

SqueeeeeeEEEEEEEEeeeee

 

Now let me go back and reread the **** article and figure out what to make of this thing.

 

I think his embedded upgrade is:

19 points

3 armor, 2 wounds

[Melee attack] You may replace one die with a white one. 

[Skill] Pick one unengaged enemy at 1-5 and in LOS. It performs a speed [Stable] shift in a direction of your choosing. This shift cannot be used to enter or exit terrain

Edited by Church14
Edited due to error

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8 minutes ago, Church14 said:

*clears throat*

 

SqueeeeeeEEEEEEEEeeeee

 

Now let me go back and reread the **** article and figure out what to make of this thing.

 

I think his embedded upgrade is:

19 points

3 armor, 2 wounds

[Melee attack] You may replace one die with a white one. 

[Skill] Pick one unengaged enemy at 1-5 and in LOS. It performs a speed [Stable] shift in a direction of your choosing. This shift cannot be used to enter terrain

enter *or exit* but yep!

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I like the use of stun tokens.

  1. Transforming back + a stun means he can't immediately transform again the next turn without some banked inspiration.
  2. Stun on deployment seems fun - not sure what the best unit would be to target with?  Probably place it on something that's likely to charge early? (Uthuk?)
  3. Church's suggestion of init 3 attack + shift backward + a surge means they can't counter charge you either

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3 minutes ago, Glucose98 said:

I like the use of stun tokens.

  1. Transforming back + a stun means he can't immediately transform again the next turn without some banked inspiration.
  2. Stun on deployment seems fun - not sure what the best unit would be to target with?  Probably place it on something that's likely to charge early? (Uthuk?)
  3. Church's suggestion of init 3 attack + shift backward + a surge means they can't counter charge you either

1) He can rally/shift forward. In an army that isn’t very mobile, that might be enough. Waiqar don’t have a good inspiration generator or this limit might have been meaningless

2) For me, the stun most  likely goes on a unit that intends to try to bank in Inspiration tokens. I would almost consider immobilize against Uthuk. Either one unit lags behind or they stay together and don’t move forward aggressively. That may allow some time for your own army to unpack or encourage piecemeal engagement. 

3) I hadn’t thought about that yet. I’m torn on which version of him I like better.

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I'm liking the idea of engaging with a unit for a free attack, and then using the skill on initiative 3 to move THROUGH a single tray unit.  No single tray blockers against this guy!

I think the issue I have is his dice and dial.  He hits at initiative 5 when he's in his heavy hitter form.  That means he will be hit by whoever he's engaged with, and possibly a ranged strike before he gets to hit.  He could possibly get engaged by another unit as well before he gets his attack.

I feel this is the same issue as the upcoming Wraiths, a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush: sure you can hit hard, you just have to hope you survive everything else that attacks before you.  I just don't understand why Waiqar can't get a unit that simply deals damage without a HUGE sacrifice.  With this new hero you have to choose if you want Brutal OR Precise, you can't get both, NO ranged attack or ranged ability when engaged, if you want Brutal, you can only attack at initiative 5, and would you look at that: 40 points.  That means he has the same effectiveness as Ravos... Who has Brutal, Precise, 3 dice, auto wound each round, additional free wound for a surge, Steadfast Fear 2, no limit on the dial ever, can (possibly) move 6 in one turn at initiative 4, can dial in a hit, can increase his defense (didn't originally notice that Vorun'thul can't increase his defense).

Now, am I complaining about this game and this hero, no.  I think this hero is completely balanced with 3 of the factions.  The problem is I hate having to look at every new unit that comes out and ask the same question over and over again: can this compete with the Uthuk?  Is this balanced up against the Uthuk?  Does it offer the same value as the Uthuk?  Can THIS possibly stop Ravos?  I think Volun'thal fits perfectly with the rest of the game, except the Uthuk.

Just my two cents.

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What's the deal with the icon at the end of his name on the unit cards? Probably just means they have to be put in the same army, but I'm not sure.

What artifact are you looking at for Lord Vorun'thul? If we're talking about anti-uthuk, Shield of Margath seems nice. But if you're planning to dodge attacks at initiative 3, maybe Fortuna's Dice is the way to go, with that sweet Initiative 4 white Rally action.

Oh man! What kind of uniques is this guy going to get? Can they bring him up to par with Ravos? Fingers crossed!

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Well dang, that's neat. Quite like the minis, transforming vampire knight is great theme. He's not Ravos, but he's something, that's for sure. Dial is pretty solid, and it never occurred to me that ACTIONS could be white. Piddly damage in human form, Threat 3 in beast mode is pretty cool. No preview of his upgrades, but Fortuna's is gonna be a good buy with no Precise (real bad at readying it though).

His transformation is REAL STRONG. Placing AT range 1 works out to like 2.4 units of movement, and obviously makes him unbelievably good at getting flanks. Similarly, range 2 transforming back to human lets him jump behind units 2 deep, very cool.

His dial is... ok? Lotta design crammed in that thing, really pushing the system! Pretty bad at charging, and the initiatives on those movements... brutal. His threat range at initiative 3 is amazing, about 3.4 nonlinear, but then nothing until 6. At 7 he's 5.4ish nonlinear. This makes him... the most threatening model I think? Short of Rune Golems with 4 unstable, he has the advantage. Otherwise, moving and reforming is always strong, he's got advances at every speed so he's reasonably good at getting around the table, attacking at 3 and disengaging is mean. Has to attack at 5 in beast mode which is a real disadvantage, so he has to lean on that (virtually guaranteed) flank and his protected (2) to stay alive. Plus, can pop smoke as early as 3 if he gets in a pickle.

But yeah, WRR at threat 3 with Lethal (stable) is pretty solid, and with fortuna's at a minimum you're looking at some... 12 damage average? Yikes. Looking forward to the upgrades!

edit: ok I modeled it, he GETS a flank "charge", guaranteed, no questions, at initiative 3.

xoLdPp2.jpg

Edited by Bhelliom

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51 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

I'm looking forward to seeing what his Heavy Upgrade has. Could 4x3 Reanimates get a brutal 1 upgrade?

That would be awesome! (as long as its not a surge ability). Might be asking for to much, but that protected 2 as an additional ability would really benefit the Reanimate's staying power, making them the tar pit they were destined to :)

Edited by Maktorius

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50 minutes ago, Bhelliom said:

Well dang, that's neat. Quite like the minis, transforming vampire knight is great theme. He's not Ravos, but he's something, that's for sure. Dial is pretty solid, and it never occurred to me that ACTIONS could be white. Piddly damage in human form, Threat 3 in beast mode is pretty cool. No preview of his upgrades, but Fortuna's is gonna be a good buy with no Precise (real bad at readying it though).

His transformation is REAL STRONG. Placing AT range 1 works out to like 2.4 units of movement, and obviously makes him unbelievably good at getting flanks. Similarly, range 2 transforming back to human lets him jump behind units 2 deep, very cool.

His dial is... ok? Lotta design crammed in that thing, really pushing the system! Pretty bad at charging, and the initiatives on those movements... brutal. His threat range at initiative 3 is amazing, about 3.4 nonlinear, but then nothing until 6. At 7 he's 5.4ish nonlinear. This makes him... the most threatening model I think? Short of Rune Golems with 4 unstable, he has the advantage. Otherwise, moving and reforming is always strong, he's got advances at every speed so he's reasonably good at getting around the table, attacking at 3 and disengaging is mean. Has to attack at 5 in beast mode which is a real disadvantage, so he has to lean on that (virtually guaranteed) flank and his protected (2) to stay alive. Plus, can pop smoke as early as 3 if he gets in a pickle.

But yeah, WRR at threat 3 with Lethal (stable) is pretty solid, and with fortuna's at a minimum you're looking at some... 12 damage average? Yikes. Looking forward to the upgrades!

edit: ok I modeled it, he GETS a flank "charge", guaranteed, no questions, at initiative 3.

xoLdPp2.jpg

If I'm not mistaken, the wording of "within Range 1" means that the entire unit or tray must be inside of Range 1, not just the back edge or corner.

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5 minutes ago, Aetheriac said:

If I'm not mistaken, the wording of "within Range 1" means that the entire unit or tray must be inside of Range 1, not just the back edge or corner.

You are correct, but the wording on his card is "at Range 1"

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1 hour ago, Parakitor said:

What's the deal with the icon at the end of his name on the unit cards? Probably just means they have to be put in the same army, but I'm not sure.

What artifact are you looking at for Lord Vorun'thul? If we're talking about anti-uthuk, Shield of Margath seems nice. But if you're planning to dodge attacks at initiative 3, maybe Fortuna's Dice is the way to go, with that sweet Initiative 4 white Rally action.

Oh man! What kind of uniques is this guy going to get? Can they bring him up to par with Ravos? Fingers crossed!

Most likely it's an icon that says both cards share upgrades and that you cannot take both versions at the same time since they don't share the same name. 


Also... THIS IS WHAT WE NEEDED SINCE THE BEGINNING. MORE COOL (but a bit silly) LOOKING UNITS! 
 

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21 minutes ago, Polda said:

Most likely it's an icon that says both cards share upgrades and that you cannot take both versions at the same time since they don't share the same name. 


Also... THIS IS WHAT WE NEEDED SINCE THE BEGINNING. MORE COOL (but a bit silly) LOOKING UNITS! 
 

The novelty of switching between models alone makes it pretty sweet.

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54 minutes ago, DekoPuma said:

But the wording is "at range 1", which means that only part of the unit has to be in range 1

 

53 minutes ago, Bhelliom said:

You are correct, but the wording on his card is "at Range 1"

 

Dang it, I thought I saw "within"...  

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