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Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILER THREAD]

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1 hour ago, Talonbane Cobra said:

Canto is weak for sure, but the other stuff more than makes up for it, Luke realising about Han just from hearing the falcon, and asking the question he already knows the answer to, gets me in my gut every single time. so well done.

I didn't think that Canto Bight was that bad. Not as good as the rest (because the rest was so great), but still not that bad.

It served to help Finn finds his resolution. During TFA, all Finn wants to do is run away from the FO, then all he cares about is save Rey on Starkiller, he's never invested in the Resistance. Then, when he wakes up, it's the same story, he wants to go away to prevent Rey from coming back into the death trap and ultimately run away, he still doesn't care about the Resistance and their fight. Then enter Rose, and their trip to Canto Bight, that shows him that there is some things worth fighting for. They then meet DJ that tells him otherwise, that it's better to run and not get involved in those wars. I find it interesting that during all this time, Rose serves as Finn's good conscience while DJ is his bad. Ultimately, Finn decides to stay and fight. It will be interesting to see him in Episode 9 now that he is resolved to help the Resistance.

And as for the setting, it might be my RPGer side, but I always love to see new planets to explore, and the concept of a casino planet is interesting. My characters will definetly take a trip there someday.

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1 hour ago, BlodVargarna said:

This.  Luke still needs to teach Rey at least 1 more lesson about the Jedi. 

 

Technically, his last lesson is shown in the deleted scenes. But since they didn't show it in the final cut, it's true that they could include 1 last lesson in Episode 9.

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1 hour ago, Gallanteer said:

Actually, the Empire was originally modelled on the British Empire with the rebels being American. Why do you think the Empire is full of upstanding British citizens and the rebels are all cowboys?

Not a bad analogy, but remember that Romans in film are also typically portrayed with British accents.

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21 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

I think it was less about her gender and more about her age. She was quite young to be leading a band of marauders. That’s the way I took it 

Am I the only one who thought she was the daughter of Beckett and Val? I thought that was the “oh this is going to get deep” part of Han and Chewie’s exchange. 

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Just now, BlodVargarna said:

Am I the only one who thought she was the daughter of Beckett and Val? I thought that was the “oh this is going to get deep” part of Han and Chewie’s exchange. 

I had the same thought, you are not alone.

Edit: Especially because she mentions her mother (and I assumed that meant I was supposed to know who her mother was).

Edited by Incard

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Val is a black lady and the girl is ginger and freckled and very white. I suppose adoptions or whatever, but no I don't instinctually go to adoption, so daughter didn't really enter my brain, more just "Am i meant to know who this person is" *desperately reach for some OT link they might have forced in* 

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8 minutes ago, Talonbane Cobra said:

Val is a black lady and the girl is ginger and freckled and very white. I suppose adoptions or whatever, but no I don't instinctually go to adoption, so daughter didn't really enter my brain, more just "Am i meant to know who this person is" *desperately reach for some OT link they might have forced in* 

Erin Kellyman is mixed race. 

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3 hours ago, Talonbane Cobra said:

TLJ was sooo Good. I just cannot get my head around any Star Wars fan not liking it I just Cannot! understand, really bends my noggin thinking about it.

It is a mediocre movie in general, but as a Star Wars movie it is very bad. 

As a movie it fails in a few places. First the jokes, oof.  They are so out of place and each and every single one falls so flat. The jokes don't fit the theme, the characters, or the timing and are a distraction to everything the movie attempts to accomplish. It is way way way WAAAAAAAY too long. Particularly because how little happens to the characters and in the overall plot. Basically no one has any arc and everyone ends right back where they started the movie. So many subplots and characters could be removed and it would not change the story in the slightest. It is a mess storywise. 

 

Beyond being a mediocre movie it really fails as a Star Wars movie. 

It is clear there is a misunderstanding of the characters and they are butchered.

Poe was the one character that actually did have an arc, but that arc sucked. Poe learns to not think for himself and instead should always bow down to an authority figure, even when they appear to have nothing planned. So while this character development, its bad character development. There is no reason for Haldo to not tell Poe her plan. There is less of a reason why everyone on the ship, who also assumed that Haldo had no plan wouldn't join with Poe. I mean everyone is looking at their leader who is sitting there waiting for death, vs. ANY plan at all. Further, why can't the FO catch the Resistance? In a universe where FTL travel is the norm we have a tug boat chase? I understand it was designed for plot reasons, but it is so out of universe and jarringly stupid. The FO should just jump to light speed and show up in front of them, problem solved. If they really wanted this 'chase' scene, thye could have just fully stolen the BSG plot and had them follow with the Resistance only having X jumps remaining, same ultimate effect, but makes way more sense given the setting. 

Chewie, poor Chewie. In the movie because he apparently has to be, but sits around and no one ever really acknowledges him. When he see Luke for the first time in a long time and tells him of that Han dies, he gets totally blown off. Chewie just lost the most important person in his life a mutual friend of his and Luke. Also Luke and Chewie are friends, they have gone one some pretty serious adventures and bonded, but here he shows up devastated and then immediately turned away and spends the rest of the movie hanging out with a (somehow) ***** version of the Ewoks. 

Leia, the Mary Poppins scene.... Leia who has a passing ability in the force all of a sudden has a pretty amazing power to never killed. Which is also, 100% pointless. Beyond how utterly stupid the scene watches, and it watches very very poorly, why does it occur at all? Leia is seemingly killed to just to end up mostly fine. The only potential payoff (Kylo pulling or not pulling the trigger) is rendered totally inert, because, surprise, Leia is an unkillable Jedi Master of the highest order apparently. 

Luke was so totally misunderstood, and it is the most infuriating as it harms the character deeply. Like Yoda, Luke, while also being brooding and a totally loner, is also working on his opening act at The Comedy Store. That makes all the scenes with him confusing as they jump from serious to awkward and back again. Then his entire character is tossed in the bin as nonchalantly as he tosses his old lightsaber. Luke spends all of RotJ believing he can reach his father, that there is still some good left in him. No one else in the galaxy believes that, including the Emperor. The payoff becomes that Vader does still have some good left in him and makes one last sacrifice to save his son, who had still believed in him. So THAT guy, the one that believed the most evil man in the galaxy still had some good left in him and could be saved, somehow looked at a child (who was not evil yet) and thought the ONLY option is to kill him. And it wasn't even a passing thought, like say Ben read his mind and saw he thought that, or Snoke planted that image in his mind or something reasonable. This was Luke showing up with lightsaber in hand only to back off at the last second. That is so bad so utterly misguided and out of place for Luke. It is no one Mark Hamill made comments like this character was not Luke Skywalker before the film was released, he was right it wasn't. 

Yoda the wisest being in the Star Wars universe shows up to do his set at The Comedy Store. Blowing right past the, "where the fu*k have you been the last 30 years" and how are you able to impact the real world as a force ghost, the movie depicts Yoda as the goofy weird creature we see when Luke first meets him. However, that is NOT Yoda. Yoda is putting on that act to test Luke, to see if he is "ready", so for Yoda to come back acting like a goofy asshat, I mean how do you miss the character that much, at least you coulda listened to the Weird Al song about him and had a better idea about him.

Rose and Finn didn't need to be in this movie. They accomplish nothing but being filler in an already bloated movie. The entire fake Cloud City story is totally pointless to the story, but also really bad. They go to find the only guy in the galaxy that can accomplish the hack only to find someone else equally as capable, literally just lying around. They free a bunch of space horses from their space horse racing (hooray!) expect this is a pretty small planet or moon or whatever, so where the **** are they gonna go? They are clearly going to be caught, by the wealthiest people in the galaxy in like 30 mins. If they don't, did anyone check to see if they can even survive in the wild? And, best of all, glad they saved those CGI monsters, but the kids stuck in slavery? Yeah, they should be fine. Then Rose and Finn head to the FO to accomplish more of nothing. Their plan is bad and dumb and they are all saved by BB-8 who can apparently take on the entire ship alone (why not just send in a **** ton of BB droids, as they are apparently able to accomplish way more than any human can in this story). Finally as Finn is able to do SOMETHING for the story (also pay off this character who began as a selfish coward, he now has the ability to be selfless and brave) he is stopped by Rose. Who lets him know they don't sacrifice themselves just to save others. How does she do this? By sacrificing herself (I mean she crashes her ship into him and is almost/should be killed and made them sitting ducks to just be killed). Also not to mention that Holdo literally JUST DID THE SAME ******* THING. But everyone forgot that she sacrificed herself to save the Resistance because she was a throw-away character that no one had any attachment to since they did not develop her even remotely, and it isn't like they had a leader character that the audience cared about lying around (*cough Leia *cough). Then because Finn did not sacrifice himself to save everyone they will all die, expect nope Luke shows up and saves everyone, by sacrificing himself..... Also now Rose and Finn are in love with one another even though at no point (other than the brief amazement Rose has at Finn when they meet) had anything happened to show these two becoming remotely romantically interested in one another.  

Rey and Kylo sit around, almost have a meaningful transition to ultimately not, and somehow both get more powerful all while decidedly not being trained by their respective masters. Clearly the biggest miss of the entire film is that these characters are almost interesting only to be turned into nothing. Kylo has shows signs of weakness towards the dark side and begins to connect with Rey and then at the end, "Haha nope I'm still all dark side, thanks for the memories!". While Rey has the exact same dumb story with the light side. Visions of her being tempted by the dark and being rejected by Luke to only find a connection with Kylo only when push comes to shove there is zero tension and she is fully engaged with the light side. Having one or both "fall" to the other side is interesting or even better for them both to embrace their "outcast" nature and forge their own path, no light side, no dark side, all interesting. Instead there are hints here and there that there is a conflict within each of them only for when the payoff moment comes they do not hesitate and end up right back where they started the movie. Neither bats an eye about having any growth, not even the hint of losing their path and are firmly back where they began even though nothing in the story would have suggested they had cemented their ideals. Also, even though Kylo has been nothing but inept as a Sith, which is commented on frequently by Snoke. He has somehow increased his prowess so much that he can pull the golden wool over his eyes in the most telegraphed death sequence in cinema history. While Rey, who knew nothing before meeting Luke and is consistently not trained by him, now has all of the force powers and is totally an elite Jedi that can lift every rock ever. Luke had to sacrifice for these things. He abandons his friends to go train and for it they are ambushed and Han is captured. He sacrifices his training to go aid his friends at the last minute and for it he loses his hand and mentor. While stronger he is still a very incomplete Jedi which shows in his final confrontation where is clearly weaker and shows signs of faltering, when he lets his rage slip for a moment fighting Vader. Neither Kylo nor Rey sacrifice anything and in the end they get what they want, have more power than ever before, and in the climatic moments with everything on the line never show one iota of wavering in their faith. 

 

Again not a great movie in general, but as far as Star Wars movies go, it is really really bad. So much was done to subvert expectations, which is fine, but you can't just subvert expectations just to do it. You have to have something that makes sense, both within the boundaries of a story and the greater universe it is set in. This movie fails both at telling a interesting story and really fails at trying to tell an interesting Star Wars story. 

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2 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

Am I the only one who thought she was the daughter of Beckett and Val? I thought that was the “oh this is going to get deep” part of Han and Chewie’s exchange. 

No, that was my first thought too.

I thought that was where they were going with it, but it just never went anywhere.

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3 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

Am I the only one who thought she was the daughter of Beckett and Val? I thought that was the “oh this is going to get deep” part of Han and Chewie’s exchange. 

Yeah, that was my first thought as well. 

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57 minutes ago, Talonbane Cobra said:

Wow. Did you like the OT? I wonder if you watched those films with that eye, if you would enjoy them at all.

I think You are wrong. But at least we can both enjoy X-Wing hey? 

You said you couldn't understand how a Star Wars fan could not like the movie, and I was telling you some of the ways. For nothing else the treatment of the established characters and the disregard for their stories made many Star Wars fans unhappy.  On top of that add in poor treatment of the story in general, and its easy to see the disdain for the movie.

I absolutely watch the OT with the same eye, but its not like those are some small little nickpitting items. Those were just the glaring mistakes. Fundamental misunderstandings on the characters and storytelling in general. While there are generally some missteps, TLJ misses on almost every single character as well as plot points.

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1 hour ago, PastrySandwich said:

Yoda the wisest being in the Star Wars universe shows up to do his set at The Comedy Store. Blowing right past the, "where the fu*k have you been the last 30 years" and how are you able to impact the real world as a force ghost, the movie depicts Yoda as the goofy weird creature we see when Luke first meets him. However, that is NOT Yoda. Yoda is putting on that act to test Luke, to see if he is "ready", so for Yoda to come back acting like a goofy asshat, I mean how do you miss the character that much, at least you coulda listened to the Weird Al song about him and had a better idea about him.

Personally, I felt Yoda was spot-on.  Since when does being wise mean he can't enjoy messing with his pupil a bit?  He may have been testing Luke on Dagobah, but I can't imagine he wasn't enjoying it just a little.

I guess I don't get the whole idea that "wise" equals "solemn".

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This whole idea of TLJ being disrespectful to the characters doesn’t make sense to me. These characters don’t belong to the fans. The characters that were developed in Legends don’t have any bearing on the OT. 

Skywalker became for the first time in all the movies a very interesting character. Old Man Luke to me was the best part of TLJ. 

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Me too JJ48, me too.

@PastrySandwich Sorry yea you were just responding to my thread, to be honest I've seen all those arguments before, but I didn't want to turn this in to another TLJ argument.

It upsets and confuses me that lots of fellow fans took something so different from me, away from the OT that they see the characters as being so horrifically wrong. I grew up with Star Wars it means a lot to me, and I feel like when people start saying just how wrong Rian Johnson is that I feel the need to stand up for it. Because I don't agree. But it's silly. I think it was really well done and you don't.  I just don't want to argue about it. To me it was such a great way to see Luke again and I could argue all your points but i'm sure you've seen it all before and I doubt I could change your mind. Thanks for laying it all out for me. 

 

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5 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

This whole idea of TLJ being disrespectful to the characters doesn’t make sense to me. These characters don’t belong to the fans. The characters that were developed in Legends don’t have any bearing on the OT. 

Skywalker became for the first time in all the movies a very interesting character. Old Man Luke to me was the best part of TLJ. 

Is this because of Legends stuff then do you think? Thing is it's like TFA already laid out what had happened you knew what went down with Luke but you didn't understand why. Rian and the team had to come up with a convincing reason for the exile and I think having Luke blame himself for it was the best way. 

 

All he did was think for one second that he could prevent another Vader and that's a reasonable thing to want to prevent. Given he is force sensitive and they can feel / see the future all his feeling about what Ben would do were correct. He killed Han! If Luke can feel that potential in him, even subconsciously then that feeling might bubble up and that's all that happened, a fleeting thought. Plus there's the dark side to contend with. I mean did Luke have one little bout with temptation and then become a saint? Isn't the entire point of the Dark Side that it's this constant temptation, aren't Jedi supposed to not have connections because those things can lead them down the wrong path, even with the best intent? 

 

Luke surely like any force sensitive needs to contend with and deal with that niggling voice all the time else become too confident and fall without even knowing they've fallen.

The fact that Luke had one fleeting bad thought and because of it blamed himself and locked himself away speaks volumes about his character, scared of going down the route his father did, it all falls in to place for me just knowing that one fact. That he blames himself

 

AND HERES THE KICKER, we don't blame him! It's not his fault, he's the good guy, we know he isn't responsible, we the audience forgive him because we love him, and we know he's the good guy, and what he's going through is proof he's the good guy. 

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10 minutes ago, Talonbane Cobra said:

Is this because of Legends stuff then do you think?

Some of it is. At least I think the argument that TLJ disrespected the characters (Luke especially). 

I think others dislike it because they aren’t really SW fans. 

Others have decided to use TLJ and Kathleen Kennedy as their alt right incel platform against feminism and diversity.  

Edited by BlodVargarna

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15 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Personally, I felt Yoda was spot-on.  Since when does being wise mean he can't enjoy messing with his pupil a bit?  He may have been testing Luke on Dagobah, but I can't imagine he wasn't enjoying it just a little.

I guess I don't get the whole idea that "wise" equals "solemn".

Solemn doesn't equal wise, but Yoda just wasn't a goofy clumsy character. He appears that way and to see how Luke would react and once he sees that Luke is ignoring him as a hindrance to finding this "great Jedi warrior" he understands he is not ready, he even says as much. From that point forward his entire demeanor has changed, the mask is off so to speak. Yoda in TLJ is played off as a "Remember how fun he was when he showed up in Empire?" instead of who the character was shown to actually be. He never had to show up in the movie, but if you are going to add him it should be well thought out, not in "just cuz".

In fact Yoda is a great example on why so much failed in TLJ. He is a master class on how to subvert expectations of the auidence. Luke heads out to find this great warrior, a master with the Force. When he lands he finds an annoying little creature. Neither Luke (as a character) nor the audience think much of the creature. So it makes the reveal that he is Yoda that much more powerful. Like Luke the audience assumes that Yoda could not be a great warrior as he is so small and frail. As a story telling element this gives us so much more about the Force. Instead of having to spell it out for you, you can "see" how powerful the force is. It allowed someone so small and seemingly unimportant one of the most powerful beings in the galaxy. For the characters, Luke's failure to notice showcases how he truly is not ready. He jumps to conclusions and is impatient. Something that will come up again soon as he feels he must to help his friends, bailing on his training only to be easily bested by Vader and losing his hand and lightsaber in the process. He was shown not to be ready, but rushed off anyways, leading to his lowest point.

In just one example, contrast this to Rey. TLJ tries to subvert the expectations by making Rey's parents meaningless. The whole story so far is "they must be important" and in the Star Wars universe lineage has produced some important things (you can even see that here as people still want to discuss who her parents must have been). Except nothing comes of that.  That is it. She is a nobody and it was done for the sake of doing it. There is no bearing in her growth as a character there is no bearing on the plot at all. It could have been so easy for her to use that she is a nobody FOR growth. Look at Luke's lineage and he has failed, look at Ben's lineage and his failure. Her lack of important parents could be the reason why she succeeds. Soooooooo much of TLJ were things like this. One offs to designed to subvert the audience but then had no payoff. No reason to do it other than just to do it. 

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@PastrySandwich Thanks for laying out your thoughts in this way and not just jumping on the old 'Waaaaaah, Star Wars is getting SJW-wahsed, waaaah'-train, that is what the TLJ discussion needs. I disagree on most points and especially the conclusions you draw, but I like that it is your own informed opinion. For me Luke, Rey, and Yoda were perfect. Yoda calls back to how he met Luke both because he is happy to see Luke again after he closed himself off from the force and because he has a final lesson for him, therefor he creates the old pupil-teacher relationship again so Luke has an easier time recognising his folly.

Anyhow, this thread isn't about TLJ, we probably shouldn't go there.

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On 6/1/2018 at 8:55 AM, Ginbox said:

One little funny for the end. On the second viewing, during the scene where Dryden Vos is sarcastically reviewing the cargo that Han brought him, I could not help but think that he was holding an oversized bottle of the Voss brand water. 

I just want to see a "How It Should Have Ended" where Vos snarks about how real it looks, then goes to smash it while Han shouts, "No!!!!", then you get a scene of his yacht exploding.

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