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Solo Discussion Thread [SPOILERS!]

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On 6/5/2018 at 1:49 PM, ricefrisbeetreats said:

The question I have: is this O.K. for kids?  Like, a 5 year old?

I wouldn't take a 5 year old to this film. And I won't take my 10 year old daughter to watch it a second time, what I really regret. (Both: that's not a film for her and that I don't want to watch it a second time.)

It's not, that this film is more brutal or explicit in showing violence. It's more the darker and more cynical tone of the film. While OT or Sequels show violence (it's Star WARS, after all) they are of a lighter and family friendly type. They are space fairy tales -- good against evil (most of the time the good guys winning). Yes there were smoldering corpses in ANH, but only for a second. And although I was shivering inside when I saw that the first time being 12 years, I forgot totally about it till the end of the film and dreamed to be a X-wing pilot, when I left cinema. IMHO RotJ was aimed directly at the heart of 6 year olds, with all the cute Ewok teddys around -- and my daughter loves them. And I know a statement by George Lucas that Phantom Menace was made like it is for old fans going to cinema with their kids -- making new fans out of them. (I didn't show it yet to my daughter nevertheless. But only because I don't like the PM too much. And she's a fan already, so it doesn't mind.)

R1 and Solo are real war films. Meant for adults. I don't think it's good for a 5 year old to watch one of them. But I know, that other people have no problems showing violence or sarcasm to their kids. They won't die, that's for sure. But I don't know what they will dream next night(s). Not to be a X-wing pilot, I would think.

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1 hour ago, Triangular said:

It's not, that this film is more brutal or explicit in showing violence. It's more the darker and more cynical tone of the film. While OT or Sequels show violence (it's Star WARS, after all) they are of a lighter and family friendly type. They are space fairy tales -- good against evil (most of the time the good guys winning). Yes there were smoldering corpses in ANH, but only for a second. And although I was shivering inside when I saw that the first time being 12 years, I forgot totally about it till the end of the film and dreamed to be a X-wing pilot, when I left cinema. IMHO RotJ was aimed directly at the heart of 6 year olds, with all the cute Ewok teddys around -- and my daughter loves them. And I know a statement by George Lucas that Phantom Menace was made like it is for old fans going to cinema with their kids -- making new fans out of them. (I didn't show it yet to my daughter nevertheless. But only because I don't like the PM too much. And she's a fan already, so it doesn't mind.)

You know, you are 100% right.  I still have this fantasy that the new movies will return to the roots of action/adventure again.  Not sure what happened in the last few years, but these cynical, dark for dark's sake movies aren't as fun to watch.  I appreciate the feedback.  Will probably pass on Solo.

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28 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

You know, you are 100% right.  I still have this fantasy that the new movies will return to the roots of action/adventure again.  Not sure what happened in the last few years, but these cynical, dark for dark's sake movies aren't as fun to watch.  I appreciate the feedback.  Will probably pass on Solo.

I agree with @Triangular 's assesment of tone but at the same time I do not find the 2 sequel movies to be that dark. sadly I think the sequels could have been better if they had played with that a bit more instead of FO= super evil always, no reason.

I think main movies light, offshoots darker might be a good way to go actually.

Edited by Geressen

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2 minutes ago, Geressen said:

I do not find the 2 sequel movies to be that dark.

I think main movies light, offshoots darker might be a good way to go actually.

Yes. And I enjoyed R1 very much. Solo was okay for me. But I'm way older than 5, like you are, I suppose. No childrens' films was all I wanted to say.

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1 hour ago, Triangular said:

Yes. And I enjoyed R1 very much. Solo was okay for me. But I'm way older than 5, like you are, I suppose. No childrens' films was all I wanted to say.

that is why I am agreeing with you? you're fast you got to writing a reply before I was done editing ":P

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I wouldnt recommened both R1 and Solo for kids below age 12 (they are both PG13). R1 was a war movie, but solo was more brutal IMO because the violence is more associated with pain and suffering as compared to R1. Agree with the statement about shock factor vs. violence. As a kid i was totally fine with the countless decapitations in the Lord of the Rings movies for example but what really made me afraid was the implication of pain through screams and such.

That's why i think that WW1-like scene on Mimban in Solo is pretty tough for a kid to watch. You hear one imperial soldier screaming in pain about his leg (reminded me of the hospital scene in "The Downfall") and one officer gets immediately obliterated after ordering his troops to charge the enemy. That kind of stuff is shocking to kids. Because its unexpected and "unfair" and holds the unpleasant truth that people can die horribly from one second to the other and without any sense to it at all. And all this in a space-fairytale movie about wizards and space cowboys. Becketts betrayel and death and the good guy han solo murdering him in cold blood is also, while "realistic", pretty hard for a child to comprehend and not much fun, because it makes all the "good guys" look evil. 

Of course it all comes down to how well your kid can handle stuff like that, some are very sensitive while others have a very stable emotional personality and it also depends on how well you can handle the situation by explaining stuff and giving comfort.

I'd say listen to your intuition and judgement whether your kid can take stuff like the mimban scene and if your kid will enjoy the good guys murdering people and betraying each other all the time but i really wouldn't recommend this movie for kids below age 10, at a minimum.

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Ya know what? Solo is PG-13, and it's solidly in the PG-13 rating. Which means if you take a younger kid, you probably have some explanations to offer, but it's really not bad. I think we worry to much about what is upsetting to kids. They've probably already dealt with more upsetting things in their day-to-day life if they play with other kids.

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On 6/7/2018 at 10:27 PM, >kkj said:

That's why i think that WW1-like scene on Mimban in Solo is pretty tough for a kid to watch. You hear one imperial soldier screaming in pain about his leg (reminded me of the hospital scene in "The Downfall") and one officer gets immediately obliterated after ordering his troops to charge the enemy. That kind of stuff is shocking to kids. Because its unexpected and "unfair" and holds the unpleasant truth that people can die horribly from one second to the other and without any sense to it at all. 

This is far better for kids than showing them a sanitised version of war that makes it look like fun.  War is brutal, and involves random acts of violence that are always unfair.  Sanitising conflict for popular consumption is one of the primary reasons that we are able to 'sell' wars to democratic populations.  There is a reason that the news always shows MRLS firing - it's beautiful.  What isn't beautiful is a child having to learn to use a knife and fork with his feet because his arms were blown off by a cluster bomb that looks like a pack of candy*.

Admittedly there is a balance of course - its not acceptable nor right to gross out kids with the horrors of war, but the scene in Mimban was actually rather appropriate, even for a 12 year old as the violence and random unfairness was present, but not in the kind of prolonged gut-wrenching detail that would make it inappropriate.  Given the content of the video games they play, this is tame in comparison and a very welcome inclusion.

* This is a video I show in class at a high school level

Edited by D503

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9 hours ago, D503 said:

This is far better for kids than showing them a sanitised version of war that makes it look like fun.  War is brutal, and involves random acts of violence that are always unfair.  Sanitising conflict for popular consumption is one of the primary reasons that we are able to 'sell' wars to democratic populations.  

sounds like you enjoy european produced WW2 movies with more moral ambiguity more than american produced.

( me too)

Edited by Geressen

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12 hours ago, Geressen said:

sounds like you enjoy european produced WW2 movies with more moral ambiguity more than american produced.

( me too)

I've found my preferences trending that way as well with WW2 movies, especially as I've spent more time actually studying parts of the conflict.

 

I've not actually seen Solo yet, but that has more to do with not going to theaters much anymore than with anything else. I'll have plenty of opportunity when it hits DVD/Blu ray.

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12 hours ago, Geressen said:

sounds like you enjoy european produced WW2 movies with more moral ambiguity more than american produced.

( me too)

^Yeah most american war movies are just propaganda unfortunately. I guess never having felt the consequences of war in your own country creates quite a delusional, overly patriotic point of view. Its saying much about a country if its population still thinks they are always the good guys just because they have always won. And dont get this the wrong way please, im glad that the allies won WW2, the world would be a terrible place otherwise if it were unter the rule of the nazis or sowjets.

But this doesn't free America of criticism and seeing this "we-can-do-no-wrong" mentality and all this super pro-military bigotry in so many american productions and also its politics is quite questionable. Sometimes i think thats because America never really has experienced the **** of facism and thus never learned that all this "hurray our country is so great and always has the right reasons to do whatever we want"-mindset is one of the feeding grounds of discrimination, war and ultimately tyranny of the fittest.

For example i just love (*obvious sarcasm*) how the Nazis are often portrayed as demon-like monsters, devoid of all humanity. I mean the nazis were incredibly terrible criminals but to demonize them and completely denying that this were humans who did this, not some kinda devil-like monsters completely ignores the very real danger of what humans are capable of.

Its like a little child closing his eyes trying to ignore the hurtful truth. Many of the american war movies lack a mature, realistic confrontation with the abysses of human behaviour and de-humanize those who commit acts of evil, completely denying the confrontation about what drives people to do such things.

"Oh Hitler was just insane, he was a monster." Well sorry, thats too easy. Because he was not insane, nor a demon. Yes he was a absolute criminal, a fascist to say the least but you cant explain why he became like this or why people in general develop such extremely dangerous mindsets by just tagging them "non-human". This completely ignores the roots of the problem, which lie deep in socialogy and cultural influence. It was a human who had those ideas and humans can become like this but by de-humanizing crimimals, even the worst ones like Hitler you just ignore all this and make room for such terrible things to happen again.

So thats why i cant stand this dumb handling of fascism and nationalism in american media. European movies, especially some german ones treat the matter with more justice and accuracy in my opinion. Just watch the Downfall, das Boot, Stalingrad, etc... 

Its easy to paint yourself as the good guys when you are the winner. Its much harder to try to draw a realistic picture of what was actually going without patriotic bias.

Sorry for my little political exposé here. But since Star Wars is pretty much about this thematic, well why not.

Edited by >kkj

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22 hours ago, D503 said:

This is far better for kids than showing them a sanitised version of war that makes it look like fun.  War is brutal, and involves random acts of violence that are always unfair.  Sanitising conflict for popular consumption is one of the primary reasons that we are able to 'sell' wars to democratic populations.  

You are right of course on this one, thats why i love Sci Fi Shows like Battlestar Galactica or The Expanse so much. They treat conflicts and violence in a responsible, realistic way. (Both also very political, can only recommend those shows! Watch it!)

But regarding Star Wars, dont we all have to agree that we dont watch Star Wars because we want to see a realistic, responsible take on war and violence but simply because its fun to see some fairtale characters blow up some evil guys in space ships? I mean thats basically whats Star Wars is right? Not much realistic treatment of violence there... Star Wars is basically a fairytale, nothing wrong with that, but isnt going the hard-sci fi-direction with ACTUAL responsible depictions of violence and war the complete opposite of what Star Wars is? 

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40 minutes ago, >kkj said:

^Yeah most american war movies are just propaganda unfortunately. I guess never having felt the consequences of war in your own country creates quite a delusional, overly patriotic point of view. Its saying much about a country if its population still thinks they are always the good guys just because they have always won. And dont get this the wrong way please, im glad that the allies won WW2, the world would be a terrible place otherwise if it were unter the rule of the nazis or sowjets.

But this doesn't free America of criticism and seeing this "we-can-do-no-wrong" mentality and all this super pro-military bigotry in so many american productions and also its politics is quite questionable. Sometimes i think thats because America never really has experienced the **** of facism and thus never learned that all this "hurray our country is so great and always has the right reasons to do whatever we want"-mindset is one of the feeding grounds of discrimination, war and ultimately tyranny of the fittest.

For example i just love (*obvious sarcasm*) how the Nazis are often portrayed as demon-like monsters, devoid of all humanity. I mean the nazis were incredibly terrible criminals but to demonize them and completely denying that this were humans who did this, not some kinda devil-like monsters completely ignores the very real danger of what humans are capable of.

Its like a little child closing his eyes trying to ignore the hurtful truth. Many of the american war movies lack a mature, realistic confrontation with the abysses of human behaviour and de-humanize those who commit acts of evil, completely denying the confrontation about what drives people to do such things.

"Oh Hitler was just insane, he was a monster." Well sorry, thats too easy. Because he was not insane, nor a demon. Yes he was a absolute criminal, a fascist to say the least but you cant explain why he became like this or why people in general develop such extremely dangerous mindsets by just tagging them "non-human". This completely ignores the roots of the problem, which lie deep in socialogy and cultural influence. It was a human who had those ideas and humans can become like this but by de-humanizing crimimals, even the worst ones like Hitler you just ignore all this and make room for such terrible things to happen again.

So thats why i cant stand this dumb handling of fascism and nationalism in american media. European movies, especially some german ones treat the matter with more justice and accuracy in my opinion. Just watch the Downfall, das Boot, Stalingrad, etc... 

Its easy to paint yourself as the good guys when you are the winner. Its much harder to try to draw a realistic picture of what was actually going without patriotic bias.

Sorry for my little political exposé here. But since Star Wars is pretty much about this thematic, well why not.

TL/DR - well, didn’t read every single word.

As for “why not” - Well, political rants (expose’, opinion, call it what you will) are what got the other review thread locked. It turns people off, causes division and uncessarily angers people when we’re just here to play games and have fun.

So can we ditch all political rants?

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I didn't like it at all. Wasnt just my worst Star Wars, it was my worst movie of the past few years in general. 

I couldn't tell you the names of most of the characters except for the ones we already knew. Beckett and L3 were the only ones I could figure kinda sorta mattered. Oh, and since we didn't kill the black guy in the OT, let's introduce a black woman instead, and kill her immediately. Because that makes since. Hollywood prime logic right there.

The plot was rushed and over worked. I felt like I was watching a five part mini series stapled together at the ends, or possibly five pitches for movies that the execs couldn't decide on which one to run with so shoved them all in the same movie with a gusto.

Too many times I had to actively suspend disbelief. Not for semi-newtonian physics, (okay there was some of that but c'mon, what genre is this, like really) but for stupid stuff like how while in an area where you have to have an ID to even be there, going so far as to bribe a guard with a pretty penny to get there, you have no paperwork of any kind, don't even have a last name...you walk up to join the army and they just... Make up a name and hand you an ID? WTF? Or you and a eight foot furry beast run, chained together, through a military camp... And nobody notices at all? They're not even trying to hide! Their just running through the open! How do you not see this?

And character treatment was weak. Like now we have to ask, how the **** did he become famous for the Kessel run, when all of like five people saw it, ones dead, ones going to be, and the other wouldn't share the story unless you paid him, and the last two are the last ones you would believe because it's Han and Chewie and you never trust anything Han says. The first place they land after that event even the locals are like "psha whatever dude, move it, I'm doing some important walking here." And on top of that, they even drop the bit where they're like it's twelve if you round down... Really? His old only good actual achievement and it's a lie too?... Oh wait of course it is, it's new cannon Han, I forgot. Silly me.

I feel like if I wanted to enjoy that movie, I'd have to work to hard to do it. And I'm just not about that. Good cinematography work though. Camera angles and lighting and all that. 

Oh yeah, one more thing... Are we just all choosing to not talk about the legitimately hot metal ring branded sex slave female lead? No? Nobody wants to address that? Just checking. Because I thought it was revolting myself. Figured there would be others.

Edited by ForceSensitive
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7 hours ago, >kkj said:

^Yeah most american war movies are just propaganda unfortunately. I guess never having felt the consequences of war in your own country creates quite a delusional, overly patriotic point of view. Its saying much about a country if its population still thinks they are always the good guys just because they have always won. And dont get this the wrong way please, im glad that the allies won WW2, the world would be a terrible place otherwise if it were unter the rule of the nazis or sowjets.

But this doesn't free America of criticism and seeing this "we-can-do-no-wrong" mentality and all this super pro-military bigotry in so many american productions and also its politics is quite questionable. Sometimes i think thats because America never really has experienced the **** of facism and thus never learned that all this "hurray our country is so great and always has the right reasons to do whatever we want"-mindset is one of the feeding grounds of discrimination, war and ultimately tyranny of the fittest.

For example i just love (*obvious sarcasm*) how the Nazis are often portrayed as demon-like monsters, devoid of all humanity. I mean the nazis were incredibly terrible criminals but to demonize them and completely denying that this were humans who did this, not some kinda devil-like monsters completely ignores the very real danger of what humans are capable of.

Its like a little child closing his eyes trying to ignore the hurtful truth. Many of the american war movies lack a mature, realistic confrontation with the abysses of human behaviour and de-humanize those who commit acts of evil, completely denying the confrontation about what drives people to do such things.

"Oh Hitler was just insane, he was a monster." Well sorry, thats too easy. Because he was not insane, nor a demon. Yes he was a absolute criminal, a fascist to say the least but you cant explain why he became like this or why people in general develop such extremely dangerous mindsets by just tagging them "non-human". This completely ignores the roots of the problem, which lie deep in socialogy and cultural influence. It was a human who had those ideas and humans can become like this but by de-humanizing crimimals, even the worst ones like Hitler you just ignore all this and make room for such terrible things to happen again.

So thats why i cant stand this dumb handling of fascism and nationalism in american media. European movies, especially some german ones treat the matter with more justice and accuracy in my opinion. Just watch the Downfall, das Boot, Stalingrad, etc... 

Its easy to paint yourself as the good guys when you are the winner. Its much harder to try to draw a realistic picture of what was actually going without patriotic bias.

Sorry for my little political exposé here. But since Star Wars is pretty much about this thematic, well why not.

Must.... not... respond... Oh, who am I kidding.

While I largely agree with your overall point, a pretty decent number of popular American war movies (especially concerning the Vietnam War) don’t really fit the role of propaganda.  Films like Platoon and Full Metal Jacket focus on how utterly ugly war is, and don’t particularly make Americans look like heroes (including depicting attempted... “assault,” and the murder of civilians and comrades.)  Even Hacksaw Ridge is centered on the nobility of the lead’s refusal to kill, only to heal (including treating an enemy soldier in a combat zone.) Now whether the message gets through to everyone watching? That’s a different question.

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23 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Must.... not... respond... Oh, who am I kidding.

While I largely agree with your overall point, a pretty decent number of popular American war movies (especially concerning the Vietnam War) don’t really fit the role of propaganda.  Films like Platoon and Full Metal Jacket focus on how utterly ugly war is, and don’t particularly make Americans look like heroes (including depicting attempted... “assault,” and the murder of civilians and comrades.)  Even Hacksaw Ridge is centered on the nobility of the lead’s refusal to kill, only to heal (including treating an enemy soldier in a combat zone.) Now whether the message gets through to everyone watching? That’s a different question.

Indeed - broad generalisations are always wrong.

On the American War Film thing, I feel the need to point out that America is just as drenched in blood as every other continent - European settlement / conquest, Wars of Rebellion, 1812-1814, the burning of Washington DC, Wars against and within Mexico, the American Civil War... it is incorrect to suggest that Americans do not know the experience of war flowing over their fields and cities - at least a good portion of the USA (the bits temporarily CSA) know exactly what it is like to have your backyard turned into a slaughterhouse, your towns burned to the ground, and vaste swathes of destruction (Sherman's march to the sea, etc) (they had it coming, btw) (I'm not an American, btw).

 

On the Solo movie, I saw it with my 7 year old son and 8 year old daughter - they enjoyed it, had no bad dreams, and are pretty much the same people they were beforehand.

 

I enjoyed the movie. Rate it better than Rogue 1, worse than the OT, much better than 7 and 8. I imagine the door is now open to a number of Star Wars stories set in gangster worlds, dealing with Qi'ra and the semi-Sith.

 

I really wish the voice of L3 had been the guy who played Abed Nadir on Community. I think that would have been excellent.

 

We also know now why C3PO had such trouble with the Millenium Falcon's computer in ESB. 

 

As to Han claiming to be something great because of the Kessel Run, he isn't making a claim for himself. Go back to New Hope - Han isn't saying how great he is, he is explaining how great the Falcon is - it's the ship that made the Kessel run in 12 parsecs (rounded down). And he gets the same blank look from Obi Wan as Han gets from everyone he tells about it in Solo (of course the people Han is telling have no tongues, so that might explain why they are less than impressed with the achievement (whoop de doo - I have no tongue).

 

The world CANNOT always be in need of saving - there CANNOT always be a death star to destroy or a Sith Lord to unmask - that doesn't mean it's a bad movie - I think we should have more movies / TV shows where there is less on the line than total annihilation - it just gets absurd very quickly. Not everything has to be an all in game of cards. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, LTD said:

I enjoyed the movie. Rate it better than Rogue 1, worse than the OT, much better than 7 and 8. I imagine the door is now open to a number of Star Wars stories set in gangster worlds, dealing with Qi'ra and the semi-Sith.

 

The world CANNOT always be in need of saving - there CANNOT always be a death star to destroy or a Sith Lord to unmask - that doesn't mean it's a bad movie - I think we should have more movies / TV shows where there is less on the line than total annihilation - it just gets absurd very quickly. Not everything has to be an all in game of cards. 

 

 

Yeah same here. Thought Solo was the best of the new Disney Star Wars movies. Just saw it again yesterday and enjoyed it just as much as i did the first time. Didnt get bored at any point like i did in Rogue One or the other two. First of the new movies that actually had me invested in the characters.

If i had to give it a rating:

Solo: B

R1: C

7 and 8: D or E

Edited by >kkj

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1 hour ago, The Jabbawookie said:

While I largely agree with your overall point, a pretty decent number of popular American war movies (especially concerning the Vietnam War) don’t really fit the role of propaganda.  Films like Platoon and Full Metal Jacket focus on how utterly ugly war is, and don’t particularly make Americans look like heroes (including depicting attempted... “assault,” and the murder of civilians and comrades.)  Even Hacksaw Ridge is centered on the nobility of the lead’s refusal to kill, only to heal (including treating an enemy soldier in a combat zone.) Now whether the message gets through to everyone watching? That’s a different question.

Yeah there are exceptions and those you mentionend are some pretty good movies. As i said, many american war movies, not all of them. I just have the feeling that the american target audience is much more susceptible to all this "Hooray, patriotism, military, yeah!" thing then other countries by judging the amount of in-accurate and patriotic movies they put out. Fury anyone? Again, not wanting to generalize ALL americans, but i just recognize a tendency here.

1 hour ago, LTD said:

Indeed - broad generalisations are always wrong.

On the American War Film thing, I feel the need to point out that America is just as drenched in blood as every other continent - European settlement / conquest, Wars of Rebellion, 1812-1814, the burning of Washington DC, Wars against and within Mexico, the American Civil War... it is incorrect to suggest that Americans do not know the experience of war flowing over their fields and cities - at least a good portion of the USA (the bits temporarily CSA) know exactly what it is like to have your backyard turned into a slaughterhouse, your towns burned to the ground, and vaste swathes of destruction (Sherman's march to the sea, etc) (they had it coming, btw) (I'm not an American, btw).

 

 

 While i wont deny the inner-american conflicts that happened and all the other conflicts you mentionend i think there is a difference between those and the experience european countries had during WW2. The USA never had to fight on their own territory during both WWs. In Europe the terrors of war are still very much ingrained in peoples minds because ALL of the population had seen them. Thats quite a difference than "just" having your soldiers fighting in foreign countries. (I dont mean this in any disrespectful way to the american soldiers) America won both WWs without its population beeing (directly) endangered or feeling the consequences of war in their daily live, at least not comparible to european countries. (Of course its still terrible what the soldier's families and loved ones had to go through) Thats one of the factors why i think that american pop culture and war movies are much more susceptible for a non-accurate, overly patriotic depiction of war. Also, having the strongest and most expensive military in the world and the american gun culture for sure play a big role in this too.

 

BTW: I dont see a problem with politics beeing discussed, as long as the discussion is civil and polite. But im done anyway, unless someone responds.

Edited by >kkj

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Hi I liked Solo and saw it again during the week and have to say I enjoyed it even more second time round.

I absorbed more of the music, characters and background activity this time round, e.g. I caught the brief appearance of the Arrestor cruiser in the propaganda movie.

The backround Imperial Army combat scenes on Minban are especially interesting (far more armour fighting and dying than i noticed first time) and thinking i may need to convert some of my micro machine Imperial fleet-troopers to regular army.

If anyone is put off seeing on the big screen due to poor reviews, I would recommend giving it a go. Most of my fellow Star Wars friends have given it a thumbs up and I notice Starburst magazine's reviewer expected an average movie but gave a high mark.


*Spoiler * ps While there is not much that could feed into Star Wars naval lore/games, it is cool that the plot indirectly ties into the birth of the Alliance Fleet, regards fuel supplies
*End spoiler.*

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