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Hi

I have heard so much bad rep about the snowspeeder. I haven't finished my speeder yet so I haven't played with it. I have thought about it through. In my last battle I faced another rebel and we both had 6 troopers + 3 at-rt's. It was a gun battle with alot of units behind cover. I think a Flanking snowspeeder could have been crazy good in that match. Getting shots on units outside of cover.

Some say it's overpriced but with 3 black and 3 red impact 3 It can throw out about the same firepower as 2 at-rt with laser cannon. It has less total impact, but cover will only block once so I think it balances out. Also with wedge + ground buzzer you could get about as much dice as an at-rt rotary.

I also think 7 hp, armor and defensive surge + cover should be a hard target to shoot down.

My plan would be to give it order first or second turn and hold it back and activate last. Comp move + move covers alot of ground then shoot with 6 dice. Next turn play ambush and let it fly in and fire with front and back. 360 pivot for 5 points seems like auto include if you go for buzzer.

If you find it to priecy, a naked One that slow moves at one flank throwing out 3 black and 3 red with aim is gonna pop at-rt's like crazy. 

This is of course theoreticall. How have your experience been? Is it really that bad?

 

Edited by jocke01

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27 minutes ago, jocke01 said:

I faced another rebel and we both had 6 troopers + 3 at-rt's.

The idea here is the opportunity cost of the T-47, the basic idea of Opportunity cost is that the 175 points you spend on the T-47 can't be spent on anything else.

So is the T-47 worth giving up 2 AT-RTs or 2 Trooper Units?

Honestly right now I think you would be in a minority if you said yes.

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I don't think it's great value for points- two pairs of speeder bikes are likely more effective.  And the rebels can get a pair of AT-RTs or fully kitted out troopers. 

That said, it's quite fun to use because it's a challenge.  If you've got experience in other games like X Wing or Armada using banking to kill your speed or re-position I think it helps.  You need to be aware of ranges and make sure that the speeder is engaging at the same time as the rest of your army.

In my case I prefer having a smaller force anyway- I'm actually better at fighting a superior force in most tactical/strategy games.

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On a board with lots of cover that blocks line of sight, they can be decent.

They need to be managed carefully. They remind me of soontir fel from x-wing. If you're getting shot at, you're doing it wrong.

You need to be aiming to move last in a round to come out of cover and shoot and then first in round to shoot and move into cover. Strafing runs help to make sure you can fire both front and rear arcs.

They are fun, but, without doing the math, I'm not sure they pull their weight.

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I played mine for the last time last night. It was destroyed in round 2, after only one activation. I put it on the flank and held back its activation, but a few dlt/hh attacks and Veers command card made short work of it.

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i think  the T-47 is Worth it as long as u place it and use all of its abilities  : arsenal to be able to shoot from front and back can do some awesome damage on both side. and wedge to place in good place .

my 2 cents.

 

 

Edited by kikordius

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13 minutes ago, Katarn said:

True, but the whine of repulsor engines is nowhere near as annoying as the whine of teenage angst.

At least he isn't Anakin teen angst mode: Active.

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57 minutes ago, Ghost Dancer said:

I played mine for the last time last night. It was destroyed in round 2, after only one activation. I put it on the flank and held back its activation, but a few dlt/hh attacks and Veers command card made short work of it.

Actually I find this is where they thrive. As with the at-st if you opponent has to devote two rounds to destroying one of your units that's an amazing advantage. That means all your objective grabbers were able to move up the board relatively easily and probably are still fresh and not suppressed.

I find where they really suffer is when you have an opponent who decides to ignore them, because then to justify them you have to kill equal to their cost which is really hard to do.

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11 hours ago, Skargoth said:

Now that Leia is out this week I think Rebels have a better flanker than a T47, Luke. He's going to run the back lines and sow terror in the enemy.

Yeah, it's going to be hard to justify spending that 175 points on a speeder, when now you can get Leia to keep your troops in line and just run Luke as the beat stick he was built to be (with good command cards as a nice bonus).

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11 hours ago, Themoaningwhale said:

Actually I find this is where they thrive. As with the at-st if you opponent has to devote two rounds to destroying one of your units that's an amazing advantage. That means all your objective grabbers were able to move up the board relatively easily and probably are still fresh and not suppressed.

 I find where they really suffer is when you have an opponent who decides to ignore them, because then to justify them you have to kill equal to their cost which is really hard to do.

I think this is really important and that a lot of people are not thinking correctly about the Value if sacrificing units in Legion.  To take it further, you don’t necessarily need to destroy equal value in enemy points - since Legion scoring isn’t about unit points.  If your T-47 draws two rounds worth of fire and suppresses a unit or two of stormtroopers then that is taking pressure off your other units.  That’s a big deal, even if it’s not wiping out enemy units.  Count how many actions the T-47 is absorbing from the enemy instead.

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I have a Z6 squad with impact grenades deal 4 damage to one. After that, it's hard to justify the cost. The only thing it's really good at is taking down AT-RTs on round 1. Every single game I lose an AT-RT because it can move twice n shoot, and the following round it picks it off. 

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Fly it like a CR90 if you're an armada vet. If you're just flying this thing into the teeth of the enemy in round one, you're asking for trouble. 

 

Im not arguing whether Luke is better or not once Leia is here, but you've gotta stick and move while making the most of your speed and maneuverability. 

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I actually think the T-47 is a good asset. It definetly has hard counters and is not superiour to 2 fully upgraded Trooper units in every situation, but more often than not it will be. The comparison to arc-dodgers in X-wing is actually very valid. The big difference to X-wing is that you can premeasure. You have to be aware of the hardcounters and limits of the unit and play around it:

1. You should always try to avoid attacks with Impact 3 or higher and you should avoid any attack with Impact 2 whenever possible as well. It is almost always worth to forgo a turn of shooting and make a third move to either close in into range 1 of an HH 12 Squad, fly behind a ATST,  ATRT, Speeder Bikes or fly out of the range of the enemies antitank assets. A joust is usually not worth it.

2. Most lists will have Luke and 4 Trooper or Vader with 4  Troops or other stuff with high impact values. A lot of Impact-1 weapons are of course a problem as well, but typicall lists do not have more than 300 points in dedicated anti-tank assets that can really  threaten a T-47, i.e two or three really nasty units.

3. You can premeasure everything. With your large base, you can move between 11" and 33". Use pivots and plan ahead one turn. All dangerous antitank assets have a dead space you want to exploit:
- Stormtrooper squads with HH12 shoot 6.1" up to 24" and cannot move.
- An ATST is actually a hard counter to a T-47, because it can move 9" and shoot 24", which means it has a threat range of 33". You may have to take one shot. After that, you can use hard turns, Wedge  and normal pivots to remain in his rear arc. Again, it is better to sacrifice a turn of shooting than to take a shot from the ATST. With 9 dice and impact 4, it will  score around 5 critical hits on average. This means it will deal 3 or 4 damage on average with alot of variation. A lucky shot might kill you.
- ATRT with lascannons have a threat range of 31" and a dead space in their rear.
- Speeder Bikes and other T-47 are a tough one as well, but Bikes usually do not strike as hard. Bikes do not have a lot of dice, so it might even be worth to just make the compulsory move, shoot and dodge in the one or two turns in which you have to joust them.
- Troopers with impact grenades have a thread range of 12". If they get you, you have clearly done something wrong.

4. It is often advantageous to set up the T-47 in a manner that you have the choice to either fly straight at the main threat into its blind spot or into the other direction as far away from it as possible.

5. Wedge is  so cheap and essential for the strenght of the unit, which is mobility and flexibility that he is almost mandatory. A comms jammer is often worth it as well, because the unit will often be in the opponents business in blind spots and displacing units with its compulsory move. It can increase the chance to activate  before a major threat and get away.

6. With Wedge the unit costs 180 Points or 195 points with an optional Comms Jammer. You will probably get to shoot only 4 times or so without positve or negative modifiers if the unit survives all 6 rounds. Ideally, you want to shoot at units that have a good point to wound ratio like Luke, Vader, T-47 or ATSTs. If you shoot at troopers, you will probably just kill between 5 to 10 minisworth of 50 to 100 points.   The T-47 is allright  at mauling the opponents commanders, but the ouput is just slighly better than average against troopers. Other than Speeder Bikes,  it can move freely within the threat range of units like Luke or Vader. Other than troopers, it can move in  areas without cover, at the board edge or on top of high terrain.

7. The large base is good for displacing units and for objective denial in the last turn. Your impact on the game should not just be raw damage ouput. Displacement deals  suppression, and the large base is enough to press a trooper unit behind a barricade out of hard cover or maybe away from a line of sight blocker. That unit will often be obscured by the T-47 and have still hard cover from suppression, but it will have to move back into cover later on. You will usually need a move action with less than maximum speed or a pivot after your compulsary move to set that up.

 

Edited by M.Mustermann

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8 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

I have a Z6 squad with impact grenades deal 4 damage to one. After that, it's hard to justify the cost. The only thing it's really good at is taking down AT-RTs on round 1. Every single game I lose an AT-RT because it can move twice n shoot, and the following round it picks it off. 

I kinda wonder if this one won't get FAQd at some point. I mean grenades ... against a flying dingus ... 

Anyway having a T47 has more times than naught paid off for me. It's won games and saved my bacon. 

Sure people focus on it, but so what, I focus on AT-STs, or Vader or whatever. The T47 is viewed as threat, it's going to get attention, and that's generally a good thing because you know what, it generally doesn't win victory tokens, and it's taking fire away from the units that can get victory tokens.

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1 hour ago, tgall said:

Anyway having a T47 has more times than naught paid off for me. It's won games and saved my bacon. 

Sure people focus on it, but so what, I focus on AT-STs, or Vader or whatever. The T47 is viewed as threat, it's going to get attention, and that's generally a good thing because you know what, it generally doesn't win victory tokens, and it's taking fire away from the units that can get victory tokens.

I completely agree.  I don't take a T-47 to score points, I take a T-47 to outflank my opponents units and unload those juicy red and black dice on targets that, now, don't have cover.  I also use it to hunt down enemy commanders, just don't make the mistake of shooting at Vader when he's got a Dodge token... @Noseminer

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In terms of fixing the T-47, me and my friend have been trying an interesting solution. New Keyword: High-flying Target when measuring range to this unit add 1 to your current range (i.e. if you are at range 1 you are effectively at range 2). This prevents things like grenades and flamethrowers hitting the T-47, which is thematic and greatly increases its ability to not get pinged down by range 4 impact weapons. Let me know what guys think. 

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I have to say thanks @M.Mustermann for this really detailed reply.  I have yet to actually play a game with the speeder so thisbguves me a ton to think about.

as far as displacement, I thought repulsive vehicles didn’t do displacement.  Am I wrong on that?

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3 hours ago, garciaj113 said:

In terms of fixing the T-47, me and my friend have been trying an interesting solution. New Keyword: High-flying Target when measuring range to this unit add 1 to your current range (i.e. if you are at range 1 you are effectively at range 2). This prevents things like grenades and flamethrowers hitting the T-47, which is thematic and greatly increases its ability to not get pinged down by range 4 impact weapons. Let me know what guys think. 

It’s certainly a possibility and an interesting idea.  Right now it’s just a flat out huge buff to the T-47 though, which as pointed out can already move the entire width of the board or half its length in a single turn.  It already has cover +1 for being a repulsor vehicle and armor.  I think maybe clipping off an entire range is going to be too much.  This makes it entirely safe from grenades because they are range 1.  which might seem thematic but is pretty broken in game terms.  

If it NEEDS more durability (which is certainly still up for debate) I would like to see something more like “if an attack is being performed against the T47 from maximum range, ignore one critical result.” Or something along those lines.

Edited by BigBadAndy

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