Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Firespray-32

Is Luke Gunner Actually That Good?

Recommended Posts

There's been much forum discontent recently over the translation of the Luke Skywalker gunner upgrade for 2.0. According to the translation he can spend his force point to rotate his ship's mobile firing arc. This mechanic has been criticized for effectively reintroducing the 360 degree turret: a ship with Luke can swivel its arc in response to where enemy ships move.

Can't higher PS turrets do this already though? Rotate arc is an action and happens in the Take Action window.  If you're running Han then Luke is more of an action economy upgrade than anything else and you may be better served by another gunner card. The one that lets you shoot out of both arcs jumps to mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we do have enough threads atm and I've made my case more than clear

but yes, he is an action economy upgrade, that's exactly the problem. The whole point of the rotate mobile arc action is to force players to decide between continuing arc coverage or doing something more useful like mods/arc-dodging. Luke removes that crucial decision making aspect (and will still give mods on the turns he isn't used), and will therefore be auto-include on any 3+ die turret ship unless he's overpriced to the point that you wonder why they bothered making him in the first place. People seem to forget the game version we're still playing, and how ridiculously easy it is to fly a ship that doesn't care about its facing

or the polish spoilers were mistranslated and we can all celebrate like the rebels at the end of RotJ

Edited by ficklegreendice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't know.

Fundamentally.

We don't even know if the Polish card has been correctly translated, both to and from the Polish, or revised since that image was created.  The translation of the Palp card that was spoiled at the same time was incorrect initially.

IF (and it's a big if) the card is as translated from the Polish, it's a very, very powerful ability - because it takes place after EVERYONE has moved, and it works on any PS pilot, not just the high PS ones - but we similarly have no idea of pricing, it might wel be (and should be, and seems likely to be given that they have repeatedly noted there's a price premium on Force abilities) very expensive.

Let's not catastrophise unless we know the sky IS actually falling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vox populi list of concerns in short:

  1. [Gunner Luke] introduces capital action efficiency whenever one would have to rotate their turret. YT-1300 will be able to boost and rotate in a single turn.
  2. [...] brings the high-initiative perk you have mentioned @Firespray-32 onto the low init. pilots, removing the necessity to invest points into high-init. pilots in order to stay on top of the reaction stack. 
  3. [...] effectively shuts down any attempts to out-bid a turret carrier, as no amount of shaved points will help you align your position at the beginning of the engagement phase. This alone cock-blocks the most fragile arc-dodge aces, as long missed Interceptors.
  4. [...] brings an additional benefit onboard even when one's arc is aligned correctly, through his Force token. This further boosts the action economy, as one can argue a Force flip will often prove to be in-line with a focus flip. Given the new Millenium Falcon title card, we are now bordering reiteration of token stacking, with Han pilot being able to reroll multiple dice multiple times and getting to modify at least one of them.  

All in all, Luke seems to offer too broad benefits. 
 

Quote

IF (and it's a big if) the card is as translated from the Polish, it's a very, very powerful ability - because it takes place after EVERYONE has moved, and it works on any PS pilot, not just the high PS ones - but we similarly have no idea of pricing, it might wel be (and should be, and seems likely to be given that they have repeatedly noted there's a price premium on Force abilities) very expensive.

1
1

The spoiled cards come from the new official polish distributor for the game (kicking in with 2.0) and the PL-to-ENG translation IS correct (source: being a Pole). If anything, the ENG-to-PL translation might have been conducted incorrectly behind the closed doors. 

Edited by ryfterek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plus we know ffg at least knows about the gunboat thread

Enough (completely justified) griping on how theyre releasing a potemtially autoinclude upgrade that is completely at odds with the design statement will let them no not to **** this up

Or at least make it a justifiable 60 points on release so we won't have to suffer through more 1.0 games after buying into a new edition

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, while (hopefully) it might still be possible to alternate the print of this card, the only thing necessary to tune it down would be shifting the trigger to one of the other phases: system, EOT, or the worst case scenario - at least before activation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don’t have enough information, wait and see.. 

The Falcon will be dangerous but if everything is working out the way the designers claim then good flying will best any good combo every time.

Call me a hopeless optimist if you want. I am just not seeing it as OP, or maybe I’m over- confident that I can kill it quick enough not to worry about it, I mean did it easy enough during a wave 1-3 ships/cards only legacy event with TIE Bombers flying against a well decorated xwing veteran.

Just my 2 cents, we will find out soon enough. 

Edited by TheSpitfired

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

20 is way too cheap

Remember we can reasonably expect 1.0 turrets to be less expensive in 2.0 as they're getting mobile arcs, and even the caster's arc is getting bumped down to 2 dice to account for the increased coverage relative to the yts' two symmetrical arcs 

So gLuke needs to a.) bridge that gap, b.) Pay for Forcus c.) pay extra for bringing a 1.0 mechanic into a 2.0 game that does not have easy access to defensive stacking and NO access to 1.0 thrusters

Anything short of 30 is a steal, and even then it's still arguably autoinclude 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

we do have enough threads atm and I've made my case more than clear

but yes, he is an action economy upgrade, that's exactly the problem. The whole point of the rotate mobile arc action is to force players to decide between continuing arc coverage or doing something more useful like mods/arc-dodging. Luke removes that crucial decision making aspect (and will still give mods on the turns he isn't used), and will therefore be auto-include on any 3+ die turret ship unless he's overpriced to the point that you wonder why they bothered making him in the first place. People seem to forget the game version we're still playing, and how ridiculously easy it is to fly a ship that doesn't care about its facing

or the polish spoilers were mistranslated and we can all celebrate like the rebels at the end of RotJ

Pretty much this. Because the actual problem  would be if the Falcon could boost AND rotate arc. Because tgat is what would make not only a 360 arc, but also one that can arc-dodge itself  very well at highest possible PS.

In a game that now wants to be much more about in arc shooting than before...

If you add no more dice modification to that than Han’s asteroid reroll, we might have a problem already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other possibility is that the symbology has been misunderstood and Luke gunner is for turret upgrades or single mobile arcs specifically.  Luke on a Y Wing is a lot less problematic than Luke on a Falcon.

Though, it still leaves the possibility open of Luke on a Ghost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The other possibility is that the symbology has been misunderstood and Luke gunner is for turret upgrades or single mobile arcs specifically.  Luke on a Y Wing is a lot less problematic than Luke on a Falcon.

I can't see it - the design of the upgrade icon comes from the Falcon's gunner seats, not to mention the picture of Luke they used for the art. Plus Gunner Han requires there to be multiple mobile arcs to work.

 

My bigger worry is the Falcon having 2 Gunner seats so you can have Chewie driving with Han and Luke shooting...

Edited by __underscore__

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:

 

My bigger worry is the Falcon having 2 Gunner seats so you can have Chewie driving with Han and Luke shooting...

It would be crazy if the Falcon had two gunner and a crew, but even if it just has the crew slot in addition which I think is fair to assume, it could get worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Enough griping on how theyre releasing a potemtially autoinclude upgrade that is completely at odds with the design statement will let them no not to **** this up

S**tposting doesn't get you a response.  (if it did the Krayts would get a shoutout in every article)  :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, AlexW said:

It would be crazy if the Falcon had two gunner and a crew, but even if it just has the crew slot in addition which I think is fair to assume, it could get worse.

Yeah, the only reason I feel like it could happen is that the designers were talking about how they could now design for fluff first, then fix everything with points or bans later. In which case having a stupidly expensive setup like that would be appealing to allow - even if it's like having a fully decked-out Ghost.

 

Anyway, useless conjecture on my part that I just thought of. Feel free to ignore me. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...