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1 minute ago, CathyKitten said:

I thought we were going to split the party anyways? Teetoe and his master flying out for training. 

For certain adventures, yes, particularly the Gathering and Jedi Trials, since all of the starting characters will need to participate in those, and to allow all of the starting characters to participate, the party would need to split up with one GM's apprentice character being in a group run by another GM. Most of the time, however, the GM duties will simply rotate between different players. So multiple ships within the party aren't necessary. 

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37 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

For certain adventures, yes, particularly the Gathering and Jedi Trials, since all of the starting characters will need to participate in those, and to allow all of the starting characters to participate, the party would need to split up with one GM's apprentice character being in a group run by another GM. Most of the time, however, the GM duties will simply rotate between different players. So multiple ships within the party aren't necessary. 

Sounds like all those Starfighter Ace abilities will be worthless if he never gets to fly one. 

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14 minutes ago, CathyKitten said:

Sounds like all those Starfighter Ace abilities will be worthless if he never gets to fly one. 

That's not necessarily true. There are four sets of guns on the Jedi Star that need manning. The Gunnery skill, and a number of other Starfighter Ace talents would certainly come in handy. Starfighter Ace is one of the only F&D specs which have Gunnery as a career skill, if not the only one. And, if we ever meet up with the Resistance, there certainly might be specific adventures where characters might get to pilot a starfighter. However, it would need to be as part of a larger fleet, not something docked with the Jedi Star

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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11 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

That's not necessarily true. There are four sets of guns on the Jedi Star that need manning. The Gunnery skill, and a number of other Starfighter Ace talents would certainly come in handy. Starfighter Ace is one of the only F&D specs which have Gunnery as a career skill, if not the only one. And, if we ever meet up with the Resistance, there certainly might be specific adventures where characters might get to pilot a starfighter. However, it would need to be as part of a larger fleet, not something docked with the Jedi Star

A gunner on YOUR ship sounds real exciting. I am going to have to make a new character. @Rabobankrider any input on what kind of character i would actually be able to play that is not going to get vetoed by Tramp? 

Also, are just waiting until we have the fast forward figured out or are we still pressing on Manaan? 

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23 minutes ago, CathyKitten said:

Sounds like all those Starfighter Ace abilities will be worthless if he never gets to fly one. 

 

9 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

That's not necessarily true. There are four sets of guns on the Jedi Star that need manning. The Gunnery skill, and a number of other Starfighter Ace talents would certainly come in handy. Starfighter Ace is one of the only F&D specs which have Gunnery as a career skill, if not the only one. And, if we ever meet up with the Resistance, there certainly might be specific adventures where characters might get to pilot a starfighter. However, it would need to be as part of a larger fleet, not something docked with the Jedi Star

if the "only" thing her character gets to use from the spec is the gunnery skill and a small number of other talents, that's entirely unfair to her.  She's playing a star fighter Ace because she wants to be a Star fighter Ace.  If you remove the starfighter from that.... well it's like you're trying to invalidate her character concept.  It's like saying that Korath can't be a Jedi.

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I personally think there will be plenty of opportunities for star fighter action. I don't know who's seen the rebels series, but they strap a smaller craft to their main ship, so it's feasible that something along the same lines can be done.

If your heart is set on making a new character, apprentices don't have too much in survivor types (trackers etc), or maybe an aspiring leader/face could be fun? It's really down to personal preference. 

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8 minutes ago, CathyKitten said:

A gunner on YOUR ship sounds real exciting. I am going to have to make a new character. @Rabobankrider any input on what kind of character i would actually be able to play that is not going to get vetoed by Tramp? 

Also, are just waiting until we have the fast forward figured out or are we still pressing on Manaan? 

@CathyKitten  don't give up on your character concept, if Korath won't let you dock your star fighter with his ship, simply fly off into the sunset and DON'T create a new apprentice, character, insist that you already have one that isn't allowed to dock.  That will get Tramp's attention.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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Maybe an augmented hanger can be added to the ship, honestly it would be pretty handy to have a fighter escort/scout. It only takes a couple of hp, and a rigger can make up the loss easy enough (either a pc or hired npc). 

@CathyKitten, I think for now I'll just continue with Manaan, talking can always be done while walking so as to not slow things down. 

Edited by Rabobankrider

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Just now, Rabobankrider said:

I personally think there will be plenty of opportunities for star fighter action. I don't know who's seen the rebels series, but they strap a smaller craft to their main ship, so it's feasible that something along the same lines can be done.

If your heart is set on making a new character, apprentices don't have too much in survivor types (trackers etc), or maybe an aspiring leader/face could be fun? It's really down to personal preference. 

Yeah, but the Ghost does have a dedicated Retrofitted Hangar specifically designed for that purpose. The Phantom (and later Phantom II) literally plugs into the back of the Ghost

Just now, EliasWindrider said:

@CathyKitten  don't give up on your character concept, if Korath won't let you dock your star fighter with his ship, simply fly off into the sunset and DON'T create a new apprentice, character, insist that you already have one that isn't allowed to dock

It's not an issue of being "allowed". The ship simply isn't capable of long-term docking of smaller ships to it. Short term, sure, but not for long journeys. Heck, for short term, a starfighter could probably land on the roof. However, the pilot would then need to go EVA in order to climb through the top hatch. Not only that, but it would impede one firing arc of the top turret. I agree though, that @CathyKitten shouldn't give up on Teetoe. The talents within the Starfighter Ace tree will certainly come in handy, regardless of whether the character routinely gets to pilot starfighters. 

1 minute ago, Rabobankrider said:

Maybe an augmented hanger can be added to the ship, honestly it would be pretty handy to have a fighter escort/scout. It only takes a couple of hp, and a rigger can make up the loss easy enough (either a pc or hired npc). 

@CathyKitten, I think for now I'll just continue with Manaan, talking can always be done while walking so as to not slow things down. 

Unfortunately, the Jedi Star simply isn't large enough. It's only 54.3 meters long, and the central fuselage is only 5.5 meters in diameter, 6 meters high in the rear, not including the height of the main ion engines, the two decks are only 2.5 to 3 meters high each. The YZ-900 is not a capital ship. It's a medium transport. It's barely Silhouette 5. On top of that, it lacks the hard points. The YZ-900 only has three Hard Points, and those are used up with an Astromech "socket" attachment and the Briefing Auditorium attachment. 

 

I agree, we should continue to Manaan for now. Korath does still need to talk to Ro'Ka on the way, and they need to brief each other on the specifics of the mission. Aside from each providing information that the other lacks, since the ship has a Briefing Room, going through a proper briefing this allow us to remove one setback from all skill checks due to known mission conditions for the duration of said mission. So, for both story and game play reasons, we need to brief each other, and Avalon too. It will also give us a good opportunity to establish (and reveal) the Force sensitivity of the two newcomers, and shouldn't take more than a handful of posts from each of us. 

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7 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

It's not an issue of being "allowed". The ship simply isn't capable of long-term docking of smaller ships to it. Short term, sure, but not for long journeys. Heck, for short term, a starfighter could probably land on the roof. However, the pilot would then need to go EVA in order to climb through the top hatch. Not only that, but it would impede one firing arc of the top turret. I agree though, that @CathyKitten shouldn't give up on Teetoe. The talents within the Starfighter Ace tree will certainly come in handy, regardless of whether the character routinely gets to pilot starfighters. 

 

Actually the jedi star is capable of having long term docking, all sil 4 and larger ships are.  The only issue is that it just blocks one set of guns, which means that whenever space combat happens you just have to quick get out in your starfighter so that it doesn't block the guns durring combat, which means you get your character concept. everybody wins (it's just that Tramp doesn't win in the way he wanted to)

@CathyKitten And since Tramp just said being allowed to dock isn't an issue, he's technically already given you the go ahead, and if Korath ever makes an issue of it in game, fly  off into the sunset, and don't come back until he stops making an issue of it.  This is how you have to deal with Tramp to not be bullied into abandoning your character concept.

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I don't want to get into a debate about ship diameters and stuff, as none of us are spaceship mechanics, and with sc-fi settings, stuff fits where it needs to generally speaking. I'd say the easiest way is to either accept docking as an option.

Another option is to simply retcon the use of the ships hard points, after all, if you have a full crew as you will when everyone's together, you don't really need an astromech socket. i think they're usually aimed as being co-pilots in fighters, and you'll have a real p co-pilot. The hanger only requires 2 hard points so if that's removed it could fit easy, and carry a fighter with a silhouette of 3 @CathyKitten before I forget there's a bunch of starfighters in that size that can carry 2 people, and a couple that can carry 3 with a hyperdrive. The H-Wing and ARC-170 are both good options). This way everyone's happy and no one needs new characters or a big stand off.  

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1 minute ago, EliasWindrider said:

 

Actually the jedi star is capable of having long term docking, all sil 4 and larger ships are.  The only issue is that it just blocks one set of guns, which means that whenever space combat happens you just have to quick get out in your starfighter so that it doesn't block the guns durring combat, which means you get your character concept. everybody wins (it's just that Tramp doesn't win in the way he wanted to)

@CathyKitten And since Tramp just said being allowed to dock isn't an issue, he's technically already given you the go ahead, and if Korath ever makes an issue of it in game, fly  off into the sunset, and don't come back until he stops making an issue of it.  This is how you have to deal with Tramp to not be bullied into abandoning your character concept.

First off, I'm not asking her to abandon a character concept. All I am saying is that the Jedi Star is not designed, nor equipped for starfighters. 

2 minutes ago, Rabobankrider said:

I don't want to get into a debate about ship diameters and stuff, as none of us are spaceship mechanics, and with sc-fi settings, stuff fits where it needs to generally speaking. I'd say the easiest way is to either accept docking as an option.

Another option is to simply retcon the use of the ships hard points, after all, if you have a full crew as you will when everyone's together, you don't really need an astromech socket. i think they're usually aimed as being co-pilots in fighters, and you'll have a real p co-pilot. The hanger only requires 2 hard points so if that's removed it could fit easy, and carry a fighter with a silhouette of 3 @CathyKitten before I forget there's a bunch of starfighters in that size that can carry 2 people, and a couple that can carry 3 with a hyperdrive. The H-Wing and ARC-170 are both good options). This way everyone's happy and no one needs new characters or a big stand off.  

Well, the "astromech socket" attachment, when used on a freighter isn't an actual socket. In this case, to quote Stay on Target

Quote

When installed on larger starships, this attachment represents can represent more than a single socket. These ships often employ an entire bay capable of housing multiple astromechs and deploying them to the outer surface of the ship to aid in repairs.

This "bay" is right behind the cockpit of the Jedi Star.  Now, Fully Operational does allow for ships to add hard points at a "cost" to performance, (listed on page 74) so hard points aren't the real issue. 

The main issue with a retrofitted hangar is the lack of interior space. Even though the YZ-900 is Sil 5, it is at the very bottom of the Sil 5 scale, not much longer than the VCX-100. It's not a capital ship. The Ghost's Retrofitted Hangar leaves half of the Phantom and Phantom II, outside the ship, not completely enclosed. And the only place on the ship where such an attachment could even fit would be between the main engines, and that's right above where the dojo, library, and workshop are located, and those have to be located where they are because that is the only area on the ship with a high enough ceiling, particularly for lightsaber practice. 

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4 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

First off, I'm not asking her to abandon a character concept. All I am saying is that the Jedi Star is not designed, nor equipped for starfighters. 

yes it is, all ships sil 4 and larger are, there's even a side bar saying that.   the only question is whether Korath will allow the starfighter to dock or will he tell the character that they aren't allowed on board if it means their starfighter is docked to the Jedi star.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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Dude, socket, bay, it's not important. If you took it out, you could fit the hanger in. The books say a ship can spend 2 hard points to fit a hanger that can hold 2 silhouettes below its size. Mechanically it's doable. Ic it can also be done because as I say, we're not space ship mechanics and the system doesn't expect that kind of detail. If you were willing to accept the change, it'd work.

Either that or you're going to have to accept docking as an option and have some guns blocked from view. Either or really, but if a character makes a fighter pilot type, the gm needs to make an effort to give that character something satisfactory to do, the same way a scout should have chances to hunt or a jedi have chances to do their force business. That is something that is going to have to be taken into account. 

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31 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

yes it is, all ships sil 4 and larger are, there's even a side bar saying that.   the only question is whether Korath will allow the starfighter to dock or will he tell the character that they aren't allowed on board if it means their starfighter is docked to the Jedi star.

Can a smaller ship dock to one of the side air locks? Sure, it’s a standard docking ring. That’s not the same thing as being particularly equipped to handle starfighters though. it’s like trying to dock an X-Wing to the Millennium Falcon. Can it be done? Sure. Is it specifically built to handle it, and is it particularly viable for long trips or jumps into hyperspace? Not really. It’s not something I would do on a regular basis. That’s all I am saying. Yes, docking is an option, but it is not an ideal one, and does compromise the function of the ship. A retrofits Hangar is not an option, not because of the lack of hard points, but because of the very real lack of interior space regardless of hard points available based purely on the actual measurements of the ship, as opposed to its abstract silhouette.

Any starfighter would need to be one specifically equipped to dock to an external docking ring. Something like an X-wing, with its long wedge shaped canopy wouldn’t work very well. It would need to be something with a hatch that can seal to a docking ring, rather than a bubble canopy.

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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14 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Can a smaller ship dock to one of the side air locks? Sure, it’s a standard docking ring. That’s not the same thing as being particularly equipped to handle starfighters though. it’s like trying to dock an X-Wing to the Millennium Falcon. Can it be done? Sure. Is it specifically built to handle it, and is it particularly viable for long trips or jumps into hyperspace? Not really. It’s not something I would do on a regular basis. That’s all I am saying. Yes, docking is an option, but it is not an ideal one, and does compromise the function of the ship. A retrofits Hangar is not an option, not because of the lack of hard points, but because of the very real lack of interior space regardless of hard points available based purely on the actual measurements of the ship, as opposed to its abstract silhouette.

Every sil 4 ship has 2 docking clamps that can pull star fighters through hyperspace.  So while it is less than ideal for you/Korath it most definitely is a viable option.  @CathyKitten can force this as an in universe in character choice for Korath. 

Would Korath turn away a force sensitive who wants to train as a jedi if it means having a starfighter docked with the jedi star whenever her character isn't flying it?  If Korath refuse then maybe Korath doesn't get his own jedi apprentice.  Hmmm. What's more important to you/Korath?

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2 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Every sil 4 ship has 2 docking clamps that can pull star fighters through hyperspace.  So while it is less than ideal for you/Korath it most definitely is a viable option.  @CathyKitten can force this as an in universe in character choice for Korath. 

Would Korath turn away a force sensitive who wants to train as a jedi if it means having a starfighter docked with the jedi star whenever her character isn't flying it?  If Korath refuse then maybe Korath doesn't get his own jedi apprentice.  Hmmm. What's more important to you/Korath?

not to mention that my character is also on that star-fighter

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Just now, EliasWindrider said:

Every sil 4 ship has 2 docking clamps that can pull star fighters through hyperspace.  So while it is less than ideal for you/Korath it most definitely is a viable option.  @CathyKitten can force this as an in universe in character choice for Korath. 

Would Korath turn away a force sensitive who wants to train as a jedi if it means having a starfighter docked with the jedi star whenever her character isn't flying it?  If Korath refuse then maybe Korath doesn't get his own jedi apprentice.  Hmmm. What's more important to you/Korath?

Read the edit I made to my last post. Certain fighters, namely ones with bubble canopies, would have a much harder time docking to a docking ring. They’re not designed for it. Any starfighter chosen would need to be specifically designed with a hatch that is compatible with a docking ring. Such fighters do exist. Fighters like the X- wing or A- Wing, however are not particularly suited to docking to a docking ring.

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2 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Read the edit I made to my last post. Certain fighters, namely ones with bubble canopies, would have a much harder time docking to a docking ring. They’re not designed for it. Any starfighter chosen would need to be specifically designed with a hatch that is compatible with a docking ring. Such fighters do exist. Fighters like the X- wing or A- Wing, however are not particularly suited to docking to a docking ring.

we also have fully operational and can create one within RAW.

 

But we don't need to... the requirements seem to be silhouette 3 and it has a docking hatch... there is an ideal candidate on page 124 of Dawn of Rebellion.   

@CathyKitten  Would a KST-100 Kestrel Light Executive Transport be something that Teeto would consider worth stealing, it also makes it much easier to split the party later when needed.

quote from fluff "...Almost more starfighter than freighter, the KST-100 entered service towards the end of the Clone Wars. ..."

latest?cb=20180128172037latest?cb=20180128172154

Sil 3, Speed 4, Handling +1, Defense 1/-/-/1, Armor 2

HT Threshold 25, SS Threshold 20

Hull Type/Model: Light Freighter/KST-100

Manufacturer: Correllian Engineering Corporation

Hyperdrive: Primary: Class 3, Backup: Class 12.

Navicomputer: Yes

Sensor Range: Short

Ship's Complement: One pilot, one co-pilot

Encumbrance Capacity: 70

Passenger Capacity: 4

Consumables: Two months

Price/Rarity: 120,000 credits/7

Customization Hard Points: 4

Weapons: Forward-mounted light laser cannons (Fire Arc Forward; Damage 5, Critical 3, Range [Close]; Linked 1).

@Rabobankrider does this seem like a reasonable second ship for the party, it meets @Tramp Graphics "requirement" of a docking hatch, is sil 3, can carry enough passengers/gear/consumables to allow the players to split the party later when that's needed,  is highly capable and survivable as a starfighter (it's highly unlikely that Teeto could accidentally die in this, which you have to worry about with a lot of star fighters), is highly modifiable (so you could add a turret and quad medium lasers to give another PC something to do).   It's a legal starting ship for an EotE party (120,000 credits).

Edited by EliasWindrider

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1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yeah, but the Ghost does have a dedicated Retrofitted Hangar specifically designed for that purpose. The Phantom (and later Phantom II) literally plugs into the back of the Ghost

It's not an issue of being "allowed". The ship simply isn't capable of long-term docking of smaller ships to it. Short term, sure, but not for long journeys. Heck, for short term, a starfighter could probably land on the roof. However, the pilot would then need to go EVA in order to climb through the top hatch. Not only that, but it would impede one firing arc of the top turret. I agree though, that @CathyKitten shouldn't give up on Teetoe. The talents within the Starfighter Ace tree will certainly come in handy, regardless of whether the character routinely gets to pilot starfighters. 

Unfortunately, the Jedi Star simply isn't large enough. It's only 54.3 meters long, and the central fuselage is only 5.5 meters in diameter, 6 meters high in the rear, not including the height of the main ion engines, the two decks are only 2.5 to 3 meters high each. The YZ-900 is not a capital ship. It's a medium transport. It's barely Silhouette 5. On top of that, it lacks the hard points. The YZ-900 only has three Hard Points, and those are used up with an Astromech "socket" attachment and the Briefing Auditorium attachment. 

 

I agree, we should continue to Manaan for now. Korath does still need to talk to Ro'Ka on the way, and they need to brief each other on the specifics of the mission. Aside from each providing information that the other lacks, since the ship has a Briefing Room, going through a proper briefing this allow us to remove one setback from all skill checks due to known mission conditions for the duration of said mission. So, for both story and game play reasons, we need to brief each other, and Avalon too. It will also give us a good opportunity to establish (and reveal) the Force sensitivity of the two newcomers, and shouldn't take more than a handful of posts from each of us. 

Ro'Ka is not going to reveal herself as force sensitive at a board room meeting. Its very personal to her and hasn't spoke of it since her brief training. 

By all means brief Avalon on your misson. 

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4 hours ago, CathyKitten said:

Ro'Ka is not going to reveal herself as force sensitive at a board room meeting. Its very personal to her and hasn't spoke of it since her brief training. 

By all means brief Avalon on your misson. 

keeping in character avalons most likely in a food coma if not pestering korath to teach him how to use the awesome

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18 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

it lacks the hard points.

Trying to do research on the ship, which book are you getting its stats for hardpoints? I have never seen a ship like this in any books I own. 

Again, I am not sure why if docking  in anyway is an issue if its flying next to the frieghter? You said youself

19 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Short term, sure, but not for long journeys.

 

That it CAN connect, so what is really the issue you have with a second ship? 

 

18 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Briefing Room, going through a proper briefing this allow us to remove one setback from all skill checks due to known mission conditions for the duration of said mission

Really meta gaming this. We know nothing about what they are going to find on Manaan so this is just gaming the dice system to force this interaction of "all skill checks". I could see if we knew there were going to be ghosts and had planned for ectoplasma. 

 

17 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

KST-100 Kestrel Light Executive Transport

This is probally better than expected. I was never expecting Teetoe to keep a single ship very long. Crash it, sell it, or scrap it and move on to the next opportunity. Would he change his daredevil attitude when he has finally something to fight for or will he only increase the difficulty of stunts until his end, is basically going to be his whole character arc. 

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20 hours ago, Rabobankrider said:

CathyKitten, I think for now I'll just continue with Manaan, talking can always be done while walking so as to not slow things down

I think i have an idea if you would allow it. Why not have two threads going? Teetoe, Kark, and Exal'ure could start on Dantooine and gather others then meet up with the rest of the group on Mandalore? I would be willing to run it!

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